Chinese Trials for World Championships 2017

[Michal_Z]

ML: 23/406 (2013-present, 0/129)

WOV!
This is absolutely amazing..
Out of 129 matches, during 3 years, noone except China was able to find some recipe to beat the Captain!

 

[Sali]

Here are some stats of a CNT player losing to a non-CNT player, including junior tournaments, excluding inj/dsq
# of losses / # of matches
ZJK: 25/282 (2013-present, 10/107)
ML: 23/406 (2013-present, 0/129)
XX: 10/309 (2013-present, 4/160)
FZD: 5/171 (2013-present, 5/155)
FB: 10/93 (2013-present, 4/44)

I think little bit more interested are last two years and here we go:
ML - 0
FZD - 0
FB - 3 (all 2015)
XX - 4 (3 in 2016)
ZJK - 8
Statistic never lies, ML and FZD are quite obvious, we have also LGY who qualified. I think next option is Fang Bo who had quite good last year and also this one in international stage. If I were LGL I would put someone fresh like LJK.

 

[NextLevel]

I think little bit more interested are last two years and here we go:
ML - 0
FZD - 0
FB - 3 (all 2015)
XX - 4 (3 in 2016)
ZJK - 8
Statistic never lies, ML and FZD are quite obvious, we have also LGY who qualified. I think next option is Fang Bo who had quite good last year and also this one in international stage. If I were LGL I would put someone fresh like LJK.

Out of how many matches and to which opponents?

Number of matches lost is a number, not a statistic. The idea that Fang Bo is better on an international level than Xu Xin is borderline ridiculous.

 

[TTHopeful]

3 years, crazy! Who was the last non china player Ma Long lost to? Koki Niwa?

 

[Michal_Z]

I would love to see Yan An´s stats!

 

[Sali]

I would love to see Yan An´s stats!

Here you go:
2016 lost (1 ) to Chuang
2015 lost (2 ) to anton kallberg, mattias karlsson
2014 lost (2 ) to gao ning, tang peng
2013 lost (8 ) to muramatsu (3 Times), joo saehyuk, ovtcharov, niwa, jeoung yungsik, mizutani

 

[Sali]

Out of how many matches and to which opponents?

Number of matches lost is a number, not a statistic. The idea that Fang Bo is better on an international level than Xu Xin is borderline ridiculous.

For me the present form is one of the best factor, the other is international experience and success there. XX had many ups and downs last year. So I think Fang Bo is less risky.
I do not have time to do all stats, just can give you opponents they lost:
Fan Bo; 2015 - masato shiono, wang eugene, Marcos freitas
XX: 2015 - koki niwa
2016 - mizutani, wong chun ting, chuang
ZJK: 2017 - koki niwa
2016 - chen chien an, ovtcharov,
2015 - lundqvist, fegerl, jang woojin (2 Times), chuang,

you can check the stats here:
http://old.ittf.com/_front_page/ittf2.asp?category=head_to_head1

 

[NextLevel]

I think that says it all and shows how funny your original post was when it concluded after seeing that that Fang Bo deserves a selection when Xu Xin has not been selected.

 

[Michal_Z]

Here you go:
2016 lost (1 ) to Chuang
2015 lost (2 ) to anton kallberg, mattias karlsson
2014 lost (2 ) to gao ning, tang peng
2013 lost (8 ) to muramatsu (3 Times), joo saehyuk, ovtcharov, niwa, jeoung yungsik, mizutani

He also lost to Joo Saehyuk in 2016 (in CSL).
Obviously he is in trouble when playing defenders

 

[Sali]

I think that says it all and shows how funny your original post was when it concluded after seeing that that Fang Bo deserves a selection when Xu Xin has not been selected.

If you look at whole history you may change your mind. XX had one of the best ratio with foreigners he has been playing international stage since 2008, he had quite good start but at that time he was also loosing from time to time to foreigners but that time the competition in china was also huge becasue Wang Hao adn Wang Liqin adn Ma lin were playing. Then from 2012 until 2015 he lost onley once in 2012 to Samsonov. So it was 3 years without loosing to foreigners and now in 2016 he lost already 3 Times, that is why LGL picked ZJK to play olympics. Sow we can say he is falling down and LGL admited that.
Fang Bo was also loosing but last year and this one he never lost to foreigners. So he is improving a lot while XX is getting worse.
That is my explanation, of course I do not know who LGL is going to pick and to tell you the truth I do not really care. But it is always good to discuss problems like that with other people.

 

[NextLevel]

If you look at whole history you may change your mind. XX had one of the best ratio with foreigners he has been playing international stage since 2008, he had quite good start but at that time he was also loosing from time to time to foreigners but that time the competition in china was also huge becasue Wang Hao adn Wang Liqin adn Ma lin were playing. Then from 2012 until 2015 he lost onley once in 2012 to Samsonov. So it was 3 years without loosing to foreigners and now in 2016 he lost already 3 Times, that is why LGL picked ZJK to play olympics. Sow we can say he is falling down and LGL admited that.
Fang Bo was also loosing but last year and this one he never lost to foreigners. So he is improving a lot while XX is getting worse.
That is my explanation, of course I do not know who LGL is going to pick and to tell you the truth I do not really care. But it is always good to discuss problems like that with other people.

It's just not the losses to foreigners, I mean, can't you even look at the rankings of the players they lost to? And since you don't want to look at the number of matches or the average ranking of the opponents, it becomes wasted.

Xu Xin has his issues and his loss to CCY during the Olympic qualification tournament set him back in a way that he may never recover from, but he is still the #3 player in the world. Fang Bo has never seen such heights in ranking, and only gained from the one time he managed to beat XX and ZJK in a tournament at the same time.

The CNT coaches watch these guys every day, but I would go so far as to say that if LGY and XX didn't have the same coach, LGY would have little to no chance against him.

 

[Sali]

It's just not the losses to foreigners, I mean, can't you even look at the rankings of the players they lost to? And since you don't want to look at the number of matches or the average ranking of the opponents, it becomes wasted.

Xu Xin has his issues and his loss to CCY during the Olympic qualification tournament set him back in a way that he may never recover from, but he is still the #3 player in the world. Fang Bo has never seen such heights in ranking, and only gained from the one time he managed to beat XX and ZJK in a tournament at the same time.

The CNT coaches watch these guys every day, but I would go so far as to say that if LGY and XX didn't have the same coach, LGY would have little to no chance against him.

Of course the level of opponents was different but he is not playing international stage for 10 years. So I do not compare him to XX but to other youngsters like Yan An or Liang Jingkun or Zhou Yu. Regarding tht he is the first one to pick besides top 4. I think it is the question who they want to promote at international level. I would not be surprised if the stop XX playing internationals from 2018.

 

[NextLevel]

Of course the level of opponents was different but he is not playing international stage for 10 years. So I do not compare him to XX but to other youngsters like Yan An or Liang Jingkun or Zhou Yu. Regarding tht he is the first one to pick besides top 4. I think it is the question who they want to promote at international level. I would not be surprised if the stop XX playing internationals from 2018.

Then that will mean that the team is no longer a meritocracy. XX placed third in stage 1 of the trials and 2nd in stage 2 of the trials. You should stop sending someone when he is no longer a good player. He is not Hao Shuai. He is still the 3rd best player on the CNT.

XX earned his 10 years of international experience, just as FZD is earning his. Fang Bo has had the same opportunities but did not.

 

[Sali]

Then that will mean that the team is no longer a meritocracy. XX placed third in stage 1 of the trials and 2nd in stage 2 of the trials. You should stop sending someone when he is no longer a good player. He is not Hao Shuai. He is still the 3rd best player on the CNT.

XX earned his 10 years of international experience, just as FZD is earning his. Fang Bo has had the same opportunities but did not.

ok then we just have to wait and see what is going to happen next. Maybe in the end of 2017 we can go back to the topic and see who was right.

 

[NextLevel]

ok then we just have to wait and see what is going to happen next. Maybe in the end of 2017 we can go back to the topic and see who was right.

Okay. Maybe we should make it something more interesting like a bet or some charity donation, but there is now way, absolutely no way, a 25 year old like Fang Bo, should be selected over a 27 year old like Xu Xin, on the basis of potential. Liang Jingkun or Ling Dingshuo or one of the other young guns, maybe. Fang Bo, never.

You simply aren't looking at the data - some people don't like Xu Xin for whatever reason, and that is their right, but if you look at last year, the only matches that meant something were the Jun Mizutani match and maybe the CCY match. In 2015, the loss to Niwa was in the prelims of the Asian games men singles, and Xu Xin won the gold. The WCT match, everyone admitted that Xu Xin was tired and below form. The CCY match prevented Xu Xin from playing Olympic singles, but that was a personal match for Xu Xin, and he may have already known who was going for singles anyways.

Please, don't let the fact you don't like Xu Xin blind you to simple logic. I mean, when has Fang Bo carried a team in the Superleague? If Fang Bo goes, Xu Xin will go before him. If Xu Xin is not going, Fang Bo has no chance in hell.

And we will see who is right.

 

[Sali]

Okay. Maybe we should make it something more interesting like a bet or some charity donation, but there is now way, absolutely no way, a 25 year old like Fang Bo, should be selected over a 27 year old like Xu Xin, on the basis of potential. Liang Jingkun or Ling Dingshuo or one of the other young guns, maybe. Fang Bo, never.

You simply aren't looking at the data - some people don't like Xu Xin for whatever reason, and that is their right, but if you look at last year, the only matches that meant something were the Jun Mizutani match and maybe the CCY match. In 2015, the loss to Niwa was in the prelims of the Asian games men singles, and Xu Xin won the gold. The WCT match, everyone admitted that Xu Xin was tired and below form. The CCY match prevented Xu Xin from playing Olympic singles, but that was a personal match for Xu Xin, and he may have already known who was going for singles anyways.

Please, don't let the fact you don't like Xu Xin blind you to simple logic. I mean, when has Fang Bo carried a team in the Superleague? If Fang Bo goes, Xu Xin will go before him. If Xu Xin is not going, Fang Bo has no chance in hell.

And we will see who is right.

Haha in fact I do not dislike XX, he is quite neutral for me. Sure I prefer him then ZJK or FZD. So it is not a question of who i like or not. Of course more arguments are for him, but I am just not so sure if he is going to be WR 3 for longer period. Seems FZD and ML found easy way to win with XX so he cannot be a threat to them, also because he started loosing against foreigners and ZJK is permanently injured LGL has to find someone who be fill the top 4 and keep the world balanced. Is it going to be Fang Bo - I do not know, just some arguments are for him, are they enough I do not know, I am not the one who makes decision, but definitely LGL is thinking about WR3 and WR4. If XX does not climb to higher level he can be replaced.

 

[Xylit]

My losses against CNT players from the last three years: 0

Think about that!

 

[AndySmith]

My losses against CNT players from the last three years: 0

Think about that!

Xylit gets my vote for ITTF president.

 

[Trismegistus]

3 years, crazy! Who was the last non china player Ma Long lost to? Koki Niwa?

The last non-Chinese player Ma Long lost to was Chuang Chih-Yuan in the group stage of the 2012 World Cup, in October 2012. So, it has been over 4 years since ML lost to a foreign player. This may be a record - does anyone know for sure?

Also impressive is that, to my knowledge, the last time FZD lost to a non-Chinese player was in the 2014 Asian Games in September 2014 (more than 2 years ago), when he was only 17. Please correct me if I am wrong on this.

 

[Garrison]

I don't think LJK gets a spot. Liu doesn't choose young aspiring players simply because he believes in them. Liang played very well in the super league and got the chance to play in Qatar, it was okayish but not good. In the first round of trials he didn't meet his expectations