Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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I see this almost every day. Der, are you messing with me or is this a bug. I always click it and it's still got no new comment!

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Played with Mark C today for a few hours. I am getting much better touch on handling those lefty serves. That will definitely help my game skills improve.

Also played games with a guy who is really a decent amount better than me. It has been a while since I could take games from him. We played 9 games, I got 4. I was kind of happy with that. I am confident he was not going hard. But, at 10-8, 10-9 and deuce 2 times, I closed the game out. One of the deuce games I was down 7-10 and pulled it out. So it was good to see that I am getting to be a little less of a spaz over the table.

Both Matthew Khan and Paul David, watching me play told me a few of the things I have improved in.
 
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Carl, even though i am moving to California, I might be able to make it to NYC sometime. Ya never know. I would like to run into a few of Ur friends and thank them. I promise not to knock them over when I run into them.
 
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I often find myself feeling a bit sorry for Archo, he seems to get ganged up on a lot on here.

I probably don't know the full story, and I'm not saying he is totally correct in everything he says, and so maybe in the past Archo has said and done things to annoy some of you. However, there definitely seems to be a grudge held against him that seems pretty unnecessary. People bring up the past bit too often on here, and claiming that he is dishonest is a bit harsh. From what I can see, often Archo is simply asking for help on certain areas of the game. He may give his opinions without video evidence, but so what? Why do people make such a big deal about video evidence? It is up to Archo whether he wants to provide video, no one else. If you don't feel like a question can be answered without video evidence, don't answer it, or just kindly ask for it and go from there. From what I can see, he isn't looking for trouble, he is just a regular user who wants advice. People seem to look for the "wrong" in his posts, and bite way to easy. Why can't you guys just look for the positives and help when you can? People taking the high-ground against him is getting a bit boring, lets all just get along and help each other out. Lets all help to keep TTD as friendly of a forum as possible. That includes you Archo!

:)
 
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I often find myself feeling a bit sorry for Archo, he seems to get ganged up on a lot on here.

I probably don't know the full story, and I'm not saying he is totally correct in everything he says, and so maybe in the past Archo has said and done things to annoy some of you. However, there definitely seems to be a grudge held against him that seems pretty unnecessary. People bring up the past bit too often on here, and claiming that he is dishonest is a bit harsh. From what I can see, often Archo is simply asking for help on certain areas of the game. He may give his opinions without video evidence, but so what? Why do people make such a big deal about video evidence? It is up to Archo whether he wants to provide video, no one else. If you don't feel like a question can be answered without video evidence, don't answer it, or just kindly ask for it and go from there. From what I can see, he isn't looking for trouble, he is just a regular user who wants advice. People seem to look for the "wrong" in his posts, and bite way to easy. Why can't you guys just look for the positives and help when you can? People taking the high-ground against him is getting a bit boring, lets all just get along and help each other out. Lets all help to keep TTD as friendly of a forum as possible. That includes you Archo!

:)

Thanks for your post. I knew at some point it would come to this, because people who don't know what happen3d always show up in the 90th minute and see the score and think whoever is losing badly is getting bullied undeservedly. I actually put archo on my ignore list to avoid pulling my hair out so I tend to ignore his posts. But while there is some piling on, I want to make a post to set the context so that when we move forward and cut archo slack and he starts doing the things that got us to this point, no one will act surprised.

The first post that I ever saw from archo was on ooakforum and it was a post talking about how to loop properly and explaining why I and a player at that time I was teaching had bad forehand loops. As someone who has at long history of dealing with anonymous critics on the Internet, I have found that usually, people who post such things without presenting video of their play can be very interesting characters. Archo repeatedly felt the need to offer advice to players rated far higher than he was who were seeking advice, even though such advice was often when I read it of dubious quality. To his credit, archo eventually posted video of his play that showed his true level of play. I don't have a great forehand loop or pretend to have one. But I know that many good coaches while know the limitations of my forehand consider it a respectable shot. So someone saying otherwise should at least present his so I can understand the lofty standards.

I have a huge pet peeve against people who will not talk about their background extensively giving advice to people on the Internet. It's in part because I often listened to people whose level I did not know and ended up paying the price by trying out dubious things. Because of where I sit on mytt and ooakforum and TTD, I tend to know a lot of people who post who are anonymous experts to the larger public. And many people reading these anonymous expeats think they are 2300 players, sometimes including myself, even though I put myself out explicitly as 1950-2050 trying to get to 2050-2150. Many people offering advice on a variety of equipment and techniques are as low as USATT 800-1300. Some of the higher individuals though not necessarily with better coaching cred are USATT 1800 at best. For people who give regular technical advice, Myself and DerEchte are probably the highest rated posters, which isn't saying much. Our credibility is not our rating per se, but that as adult amateurs who worked with good coaches and got to a decent level, we tend to be able to put in words things that people who started much younger and haven't tried to coach just picked up without having a mental process.

Since I am not in the mood to go through the various things that archo does or has done, I do think that it is best to ignore him. At least, we have gotten to a point where he is not as quick to give advice to players who are much higher rated without presenting his true level. And since most of the people on the thread have seen video of him playing, I think that is enough for people to place his ideas in context.

What is interesting is that the people who are most critical of archo are the people who have tried to help him the most. That says something, though I am not sure what.

Players who are around good players and not looking to the Internet for advice tend to not see any issue with people saying stuff because they have the resources to ignore such nonsense. And people who have tried to help archo understand that table tennis advice is more complicated than stories using table tennis terminology and probably frustrated that he doesn't get it.

But you are 100% right, Yecats. The right way is to ignore the kid. He is not going to change. In some ways, he is a good ignorant kid. But in many ways, he is clearly a delusional basement player who imagines he has a 2700 understanding of the sport. But as long as he is not telling anyone on the Internet how to loop when he clearly cannot and has not taught anyone how to do so to a decent level, I am okay with what he does.

The reason why critics jump on the stories is that he usually has a knack for taking a buzzword that was introduced in a discussion and saying he did or experienced it. He sees a super league backhand, it is necessary Archo'so backhand. He hears about hook looping, he did a hook loop. I am getting more whip, archo is getting more whip. And all these things are described as if he is a 2500 player so it makes one curious to see what is happening since archo is unlikely to be doing these things. But it is all part of the charade.

This post is much longer than I intended and I don't have time for this.
 
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NL,

Thanks for your reply :)

To clarify, I am definitely not showing up in the 90th minute. Over the last 8 months I have been reading a lot of posts between Archo and others and assumed that at some point the tensions would subside. The idea that because he is a low level player means he cannot give advice seems a bit unreasonable. Whether people take his advice is up to them, but let him speak his mind just as you speak yours. Its good to hear the perspectives of players from all levels, and no one should be shut down for contributing.

I can see your point about the forehand loop post, however I still think you are holding this against him when he had good intentions and was just trying to help. As I said, you could have just ignored his advice rather than throwing USATT ratings/experience around. This forum should not just be a case of a few people giving advice to a lot of people. Advice should always be appreciated from every angle, but whether you agree with it is entirely up to you :)

I don't think blocking him is a mature way to go about things, but that is your choice at the end of the day. You'd probably be better replying to posts that you can be helpful on, and ignoring those that you can't.

Anyway, maybe I shouldn't get involved, but I'm sure you can appreciate that myself and other TTD members get a bit fed up of reading arguments all the time, especially when they can be easily avoided...

Thanks for the background info, helps to fill in some of the gaps :)
 
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NL,

Thanks for your reply :)

To clarify, I am definitely not showing up in the 90th minute. Over the last 8 months I have been reading a lot of posts between Archo and others and assumed that at some point the tensions would subside. The idea that because he is a low level player means he cannot give advice seems a bit unreasonable. Whether people take his advice is up to them, but let him speak his mind just as you speak yours. Its good to hear the perspectives of players from all levels, and no one should be shut down for contributing.

I can see your point about the forehand loop post, however I still think you are holding this against him when he had good intentions and was just trying to help. As I said, you could have just ignored his advice rather than throwing USATT ratings/experience around. This forum should not just be a case of a few people giving advice to a lot of people. Advice should always be appreciated from every angle, but whether you agree with it is entirely up to you :)

I don't think blocking him is a mature way to go about things, but that is your choice at the end of the day. You'd probably be better replying to posts that you can be helpful on, and ignoring those that you can't.

Anyway, maybe I shouldn't get involved, but I'm sure you can appreciate that myself and other TTD members get a bit fed up of reading arguments all the time, especially when they can be easily avoided...

Thanks for the background info, helps to fill in some of the gaps :)

People who are not familiar with that post cannot see archo the way I do unless they consider how good a player Archo must have been in Feb 2016 and think about his first videos and wonder how someone who plays like he did could have written something like that. IT shows you how much he thinks table tennis is an intellectual sport, not one that has to be played to understand it. People criticize my strokes all the time, including players I coach, so that has little to do with that is key to that post. I know you consider me a petty person, but that is okay.

My issue is not with a lower level player contributing, my issue is with a lower level player contributing without 1) revealing his level and 2) explaining what gave rise to his advice and sometimes 3) the fact that the player who has not acquired the level required to coach or deal with the problem will often not empathize with the pains of solving the problems.

Of course Archo was just trying to help, as are lots of players giving advice without telling people what their qualifications are. And that doesn't make the advice any less dangerous, given how uninformed it is. Since you are an experienced player, you can obviously ignore such advice. But I know from personal experience that some people take it seriously.

As for maturity, a man's gotta know his limitations. I could have tripled the BS I have written on this site within the last two weeks just dealing with his posts and the subtle approach to questions and answers and story telling. Like I said, the people who are the ones piling on Archo the most are those who have also interacted with him the most. I mean, you are not dealing with archo, yet you feel so compelled to defend him as do many others - this is normal human psychology by the way. So as much as I understand your statement on maturity, it's quite a bit of what we call "Monday morning quarterbacking" in the USA. It's much easier for site harmony for me to largely ignore the kid.
 
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There is advice and advice...

Some advice is fairly obviously correct, a couple of minutes of thought or a few minutes testing on the table will quickly prove it to be generally valid. In this case it doesn't really matter whether a beginner or an advanced player says it.

What gets more murky is the more grey area stuff, such as tactics or certain aspects of technique, where it isn't immediately obvious whether the advice given is solid, or where there are many complicating factors at work. If the advice sounds plausible but is wrong, people who decide to follow it can waste a lot of time going in the wrong direction, and then have to spend even more time fixing what they just changed.

In these cases, a bit of background or video of the adviser can give people a chance to gauge the likelihood he actually knows what he is talking about, so they don't waste their time following bad advice.

Bottom line: Everybody is free to post advice on the forum. But giving out wrong advice can waste other people's time, money and energy, so if you want to give advice, don't be surprised or offended if you are asked to either justify your reasoning or show your own playing level, so people can weed out the wheat from the chaff.

Bottom line 2: Over the years I have learnt that a lot of table tennis advice should be prefaced with the term - "It depends on...". The same tip can be good, neutral or terrible depending on the circumstances of the player receiving the tip. I see a lot more grey and a lot less black and white in this regard these days.
 
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There is advice and advice...

Some advice is fairly obviously correct, a couple of minutes of thought or a few minutes testing on the table will quickly prove it to be generally valid. In this case it doesn't really matter whether a beginner or an advanced player says it.

What gets more murky is the more grey area stuff, such as tactics or certain aspects of technique, where it isn't immediately obvious whether the advice given is solid, or where there are many complicating factors at work. If the advice sounds plausible but is wrong, people who decide to follow it can waste a lot of time going in the wrong direction, and then have to spend even more time fixing what they just changed.

In these cases, a bit of background or video of the adviser can give people a chance to gauge the likelihood he actually knows what he is talking about, so they don't waste their time following bad advice.

Bottom line: Everybody is free to post advice on the forum. But giving out wrong advice can waste other people's time, money and energy, so if you want to give advice, don't be surprised or offended if you are asked to either justify your reasoning or show your own playing level, so people can weed out the wheat from the chaff.

Bottom line 2: Over the years I have learnt that a lot of table tennis advice should be prefaced with the term - "It depends on...". The same tip can be good, neutral or terrible depending on the circumstances of the player receiving the tip. I see a lot more grey and a lot less black and white in this regard these days.

Greg,

I have an "answer" of sorts to your "how to loop if you cannot be as fit as a pro" question that I really should post sometimes. I had it earlier this year I think, but I have not been able to work out all the details honestly so it is a little half-baked. But I will post it sometimes. It basically arose from my trying to replicate my backhand loop mechanics on my forehand. I am hoping bring it up will make me commit to some video this week.
 
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NL,

I do not consider you a petty person at all, and my initial post was not just directed at you. I have no issues with you as a person.

I understand where you are coming from, seriously I do.

I just get fed up with people automatically writing him off, saying he is dishonest and saying he is "full of it". I get it, some people don't particularly want his advice and that is fine. I just want people going forward to get along, and take what he says with a pinch of salt. Find some positives in what he says and help him where you can and ignore him when required. He is human, he makes mistakes, and maybe he is a bit naive, but throwing insults at him is not a good way to go about it.

Again, this isn't directed specifically at you :)

Lets all try and be a bit more respectful to one another. There's nicer ways of saying things than posts I have seen on here.
 
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You can tell by the popcorn GIF that Arc loves the attention that he gets on this forum. He makes most of his posts in order to get NL or Carl go on an angry rant about why he's wrong. This is how he learns about TT, and he has even directly stated as such. What needs to happen is that he, in general, needs to be ignored unless he asks his questions with supporting video. If he gives out inaccurate advice to someone, then that person needs to be told that the advice is incorrect through private message without addressing arch directly.

The problem is that Arch is too often rewarded for bad behavior. Stop that. If he makes a good post, respond to him publicly. If he makes a bad post, ignore him and address the affected parties privately.
 
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Every like 25 page's in this Thread we have the Archo discussion surfacing.

Agreed. This thread is supposed to be about Table Tennis, which is why I get sick of the petty arguments and rants, and why I posted what I did.
 
Carl, even though i am moving to California, I might be able to make it to NYC sometime. Ya never know. I would like to run into a few of Ur friends and thank them. I promise not to knock them over when I run into them.

The NYC Goon Squad will suffer greatly without your presence='(... we lost our anchorman for setting up traps fer Chicken n Beer Bets. Every single adventure was a pleasure, my friend!
 
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