Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

@arch

Underspin serves. Don't wind up. NL has some good videos of the shorter strokes for the forehand underspin serves.

Did you pay attention to how many of my shitty backspin serves were netted in the videos? I was brushing the back of the ball, not even the front!

I can do a very short, almost Werner Schlager like backspin serve, and I am literally yet to see anyone except the best players here get them over the net. It's so much better, and it's so short that they keep thinking it's light. Even after explaining that it's heavy they can't get it over. I've had people quite a bit better than me net the serve repeatedly.

You are right, though. I should always do proper serves, and try to get rid of this circular motion because, at least for me, straight whip action works better. Your advice is good and very welcome: don't get me wrong.

To be honest, though, circular motion is fun. I can trick lower level players very easily with it. The short whippy serve is also the serve I pull out when I desperately need a point, but I guess I should give that up and learn to hide no-spin properly.

 

[NextLevel]

Finally, if in the next video, you don't find some shorts to put on when filming these videos, I will refrain from commenting on any of your videos until ttmonster gives you passing grade. I look bad when I coach in jeans but this is disgusting to see... do you have spots on your legs or something icky????

 

[Archosaurus]

@NextLevel

Huh. My best shots feel like a combination of brushing and hitting, but I always imagined them as being more of a brush. I try to avoid hitting as much as possible. Then again, when I do that, I just miss the ball and if I just indiscriminately hit into it with an angled bat, I get a good topspin. It seems to make sense.

I will experiment with what you're talking about.

NL, I don't own a pair of shorts! I'll just have to look disgusting for now.

When I do hit up a club later, I will definitely bring shorts. I'm not that much of a savage.

EDIT:

Ah, now the hitting is making sense!

When I was self hitting once, I decided to chop down from right to left slightly under the ball on my forehand, and I managed to generate at least what looks like a ton of spin. I could really feel the dwell and hear the loud brushing sound. The ball resisted gravity and floated up and to the right. Maybe if I swing hard enough I could get it to hit the ceiling on the 2nd floor. It really feels that way.

Do I just need to do this, but with topspin?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

To me, the real question in the videos is why are all the balls from both sides so high.

Honestly, a ball that high, I probably would just bitch-slap it and tell my training partner that a ball that high deserves to be abused.


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[Archosaurus]

To me, the real question in the videos is why are all the balls from both sides so high.

Honestly, a ball that high, I probably would just bitch-slap it and tell my training partner that a ball that high deserves to be abused.


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Is there something I can do to keep the ball lower against much worse players?

It's like they're voluntarily fishing.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Is there something I can do to keep the ball lower against much worse players?

It's like they're voluntarily fishing.

When you push or hit topspin, you are lifting the ball too. But their returns are pretty high.

It looks like you are doing a drill.

Just tell him when he pushes to you, he should push low. Otherwise you guys are not really getting such useful practice.


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[Archosaurus]

When you push or hit topspin, you are lifting the ball too. But their returns are pretty high.

It looks like you are doing a drill.

Just tell him when he pushes to you, he should push low. Otherwise you guys are not really getting such useful practice.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

Yeah, my push is not that good. It's gotten a tiny teeny little bit better though. I take it a bit earlier sometimes.


However, these are not drills! The level difference is pretty high, so I guess it just evolves into a kind of drill-style routine. You might have forgotten, but serving is very difficult. These guys only really know how to do one serve, to mostly one placement.

I've tried to explain these things, but...

My issue is that their pushes are super light. There's nothing on them. Against better players who know how to push and serve heavy backspin, my push at least looks lower.

How would I go about pushing these kind of very light balls? I know the answer is to just flick them or sidespin push them into a wide angle or something, but they cannot return those kinds of things.

 

[NextLevel]

@NextLevel

Huh. My best shots feel like a combination of brushing and hitting, but I always imagined them as being more of a brush. I try to avoid hitting as much as possible. Then again, when I do that, I just miss the ball and if I just indiscriminately hit into it with an angled bat, I get a good topspin. It seems to make sense.

I will experiment with what you're talking about.

NL, I don't own a pair of shorts! I'll just have to look disgusting for now.

When I do hit up a club later, I will definitely bring shorts. I'm not that much of a savage.

EDIT:

Ah, now the hitting is making sense!

When I was self hitting once, I decided to chop down from right to left slightly under the ball on my forehand, and I managed to generate at least what looks like a ton of spin. I could really feel the dwell and hear the loud brushing sound. The ball resisted gravity and floated up and to the right. Maybe if I swing hard enough I could get it to hit the ceiling on the 2nd floor. It really feels that way.

Do I just need to do this, but with topspin?

I can't respond to your imagination or memory. Only to your video. And going forward, only if ttmonster approveso or you wear proper athletic gear. Thanks!

 

[Archosaurus]

I can't respond to your imagination or memory. Only to your video. And going forward, only if ttmonster approveso or you wear proper athletic gear. Thanks!

I can probably prop the phone up and film the shot I mean. Most likely I can. I will do it tomorrow if I remember.

The shorts, well, that's not happening. For one, at this time of the year, it doesn't matter how much I move: my nutsack is going to freeze solid and become one with my leg if I wear light clothing. I am in Finland after all.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

How would I go about pushing these kind of very light balls? I know the answer is to just flick them or sidespin push them into a wide angle or something, but they cannot return those kinds of things.

You could try touching the ball softly.


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[Archosaurus]

You could try touching the ball softly.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

So basically drop it over the net without much of a chop?

Do I take it early or late, if it's very light? Or it doesn't really matter?

 

[Shuki]

Did you pay attention to how many of my shitty backspin serves were netted in the videos? I was brushing the back of the ball, not even the front!

I can do a very short, almost Werner Schlager like backspin serve, and I am literally yet to see anyone except the best players here get them over the net. It's so much better, and it's so short that they keep thinking it's light. Even after explaining that it's heavy they can't get it over. I've had people quite a bit better than me net the serve repeatedly.

You are right, though. I should always do proper serves, and try to get rid of this circular motion because, at least for me, straight whip action works better. Your advice is good and very welcome: don't get me wrong.

To be honest, though, circular motion is fun. I can trick lower level players very easily with it. The short whippy serve is also the serve I pull out when I desperately need a point, but I guess I should give that up and learn to hide no-spin properly.

Yes I can see your opponent's ball going into the net off of your underspin serve. I can also HEAR your opponent making flat contact with terrible timing right off the bounce. it's not that your serve is heavy, it's that your opponent doesn't understand how to deal with any backspin and isn't adjusting at all. Like they think if they keep hitting it harder it will work.

 

[Archosaurus]

Yes I can see your opponent's ball going into the net off of your underspin serve. I can also HEAR your opponent making flat contact with terrible timing right off the bounce. it's not that your serve is heavy, it's that your opponent doesn't understand how to deal with any backspin and isn't adjusting at all. Like they think if they keep hitting it harder it will work.

Yes. I'm not sure if more backspin will help.


I've trained some guys in serve return, and it's half worked. Everyone just seems to find the idea of properly returning my serves terribly boring and they'd rather do hitting drills or games.

Then we play a game and they moan and complain that my serve can't be returned. I wonder why...


I will try to teach them, but I think it's better if I just focus on my own game.

 

[SchemeSC]

Yes, I agree.

Today, I just wasn't making any spin, so I was reluctant to swing faster.

You always need good racket head speed to produce spin. This might sound like an exaggeration, but I think nothing else matters about technique until the player has demonstrated good racket head speed. It's that important. The problem is that many inexperienced players think that the way to get better racket head speed is by trying harder ("giving 150 percent effort"). The beauty of trying to make the WHOOOSH sound on your shadow swings is that it will teach you the correct amound of grip tension and effort level on its own.

 

[Archosaurus]

You always need good racket head speed to produce spin. This might sound like an exaggeration, but I think nothing else matters about technique until the player has demonstrated good racket head speed. It's that important. The problem is that many inexperienced players think that the way to get better racket head speed is by trying harder ("giving 150 percent effort"). The beauty of trying to make the WHOOOSH sound on your shadow swings is that it will teach you the correct amound of grip tension and effort level on its own.

Yes, it seems to be so.

Just, sometimes when you are an un-coached, low level player, you know these things, but they do not work due to whatever reason. So you do stupid things instead.

I'll try to hammer it in my head.

 

[Shuki]

Yes. I'm not sure if more backspin will help.


I've trained some guys in serve return, and it's half worked. Everyone just seems to find the idea of properly returning my serves terribly boring and they'd rather do hitting drills or games.

Then we play a game and they moan and complain that my serve can't be returned. I wonder why...


I will try to teach them, but I think it's better if I just focus on my own game.

??? Wut

I said to not windup on the backspin serve, nothing to do with your opponents. Developing your serve correctly won't matter to your opponents if they already can't return it. It only benefits you.


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[Archosaurus]

??? Wut

I said to not windup on the backspin serve, nothing to do with your opponents. Developing your serve correctly won't matter to your opponents if they already can't return it. It only benefits you.

Ah, yes. You do have a point. The ones who can return it, will just keep returning it and probably keep getting better at it.

I have this dilemma. I play with beginners a lot, and I feel bad if I just blast topspins past them. But that is exactly what I should be doing if I want to develop myself.

Maybe from now on I'll stop being nice and just play seriously all the time. Or I could just chop when I play beginners.

 

[Shuki]

Ah, yes. You do have a point. The ones who can return it, will just keep returning it and probably keep getting better at it.

I have this dilemma. I play with beginners a lot, and I feel bad if I just blast topspins past them. But that is exactly what I should be doing if I want to develop myself.

Maybe from now on I'll stop being nice and just play seriously all the time. Or I could just chop when I play beginners.

If you get the chance to play a good player, would you prefer that the player never gives you heavy spin because you can't deal with it? or would you like them to give you their good shots. In many people's eyes showing that you give your all is much more respectful than giving players things they can deal with easier.



Here's what I notice in your playing with your opponents. You ARE trying. If you weren't you wouldn't be giving them balls they aren't comfortable with. If I play someone lower level than me and don't want to try, I just return the ball. I don't attack it to an extent where they can't return it. you say you feel bad, but you aren't playing in a way where the opponent is getting opportunities to play their own game.

 

[Archosaurus]

If you get the chance to play a good player, would you prefer that the player never gives you heavy spin because you can't deal with it? or would you like them to give you their good shots. In many people's eyes showing that you give your all is much more respectful than giving players things they can deal with easier.



Here's what I notice in your playing with your opponents. You ARE trying. If you weren't you wouldn't be giving them balls they aren't comfortable with. If I play someone lower level than me and don't want to try, I just return the ball. I don't attack it to an extent where they can't return it. you say you feel bad, but you aren't playing in a way where the opponent is getting opportunities to play their own game.

I guess you're right.

Although what really pisses me off is when I fish at people and give them good balls to attack, and they just push it or fish back. I guess if they think that I take it easy on them, they should take it easy on me.

Now when I think about it, when I go all out, they play better. So perhaps I should just play my best all the time.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@Archo BTW is this table and footage at your home ? it looks quite spacious