Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[thekleifheit13]

Dude, you can't make a decent BH if you don't wear a T-shirt

LOL

I actually didn't even go to my basement to play. Haha went down to grab something for my fiancee and got distracted.

 

[Der_Echte]

Kleifheit…

a few suggestions.

Go on Amazon and get a collapsible tripod for $10-$15 and get a smart phone adapter for $10-$15... That is very inexpensive and gives you a lot of flexibility. Think about it, this is the price of one inexpensive rubber and you get to use it for years or decades. It is a great inexpensive investment. The smartphone adapter for the tripod usually comes with a Bluetooth remote as well.

As for your vid, you must have one sauna of a garage in late December in Ohio...

I take it you set the machine to give you a fast medium underspin. In real TT, you only get those fast med to medium heavy underspins so often. You are trying to crush that ball... and that ball is better handled by softening up and slowing it down instead of using shock and awe power... until you get all things right with your shot to have higher consistency attempting that power shot vs that ball.

You appear to be trying to go for too much on the shot. You still need to explode, but it looks like you are trying to shorten the finish of your stroke by being too tight. Let the shot go, but do not put 80-90 percent into it at this point.

You appear to be impacting the ball too much towards your hitting elbow. Visualize striking the ball right in front of and lower than your left breast. Hitting too far to the inside of your zone will make you do all kind of adjustments that take away from your power transfer and consistency.

You could do well at this point to loosen your wrist, arm, and shoulder to get the whip right and to get the feel of the impact timing. As this improves, you can add some more firmness to the wrist right at impact to get a faster ball as a result. For now, I would advise to keep everything loose, lower you power some and get the position/stance/leverage, biomechanics, impact zone, and impact timing right and consistent. At that point you would profit form going for more.

The ball coming at you so fast is rushing you... which is making showing your inconsistency in many areas of the stroke/shot. Slow down the speed of the ball so it is easier for you to work on the fundamentals that contribute to better power transfer and impact timing... then you would be a good candidate to step up.

Of course that isn't the only way... there are always many paths...you could keep right on working at it with this fast ball and eventually sort it out... but believe me, it will work out more efficiently if you slow the ball down and work on your power transfer and impact.

 

[Lula]

Anyone know how to embed video?

BH vs Top video below. Notes: I look super awkward... My elbow drifts out to my left too much. I follow through too high and too far to my left. My motion is too big for being at the table. My low back slips into hyperextension a lot thanks to powerlifting. I do hit a few that feel good and seem to have decent quality, but nowhere near reliably.

https://youtu.be/IUxKZjD9PL8

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IUxKZjD9PL8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

I think you should try the advise i gave you in my last post. It looks like you are looping against backspin. That is the technique you should use against backspin. I think that is way der echte thinks you are looping against backspin.

When looping against topspin you want the arm higher and maybe close the angle of the racket more so you come over tha ball. Try to find the ball first. So if the ball is a little bit higher you want to move your arm higher to the ball, and if it is a little bit lower you need to lower you arm. Now you almost have the racket under the ball, so if you are going to hit it, you need to hit upward. It is not really necessary to hit upward against topspin since it is already topspin in the ball. You can also see when you hit the edge of your racket that you are not waiting for the ball, and not finding it.

So you first want to find the ball, and then have the arm higher so you can whip through the ball forward instead of upward. This will give the ball more power, instead of an arch which you do not really need so close to the table and against topspin.

I agree that you should try to have a little shorter motion so close to the table. I think so close to the table it is enough to use almost the wrist to get power and spin. Your motion is more suited for easier balls and a litlle bit further away from the table.

I have played a long time and been a coach a long time also. I think maybe one of the biggest secrets of table tennis that i have learned through the years is in my opinion to try to do the correct technique, then moving the legs so you only do that one shot all time. It is easy to become good at tabletennis if your footwork is good and you are able to do almost only one type of backhand and forehand loop al the time. If you only practice one shot all the time, it will be safe. Without their great footwork the chinese would not be as consistent. We europeans miss more beacuse we need to do more and practice alot more different shots since we do not have as good fotwork.

So when you miss you have done something different than when the ball goes in on the table. It is important to think what have happened and try to correct it so you do almost the same shot all the time. By doing this you will become very safe, but it is really important to have the correct technique so you do not practice on a motion that is not good. I try to do alot of "shadow tabletennis", playing in the air with my students. Unfortunaly they do not take it seriously, but i think this is the best way to develop the technique and your tabletennis. I also think it would be a good idea like Echte is saying that maybe make the speed a litlle slower and maybe a little less balls per minute.

But, i do think that you will become good in no time! I like that you take every opportunity to practice haha. I also think you looks pretty fit and will be able to practice alot. I also think the fundamentals looks pretty okay. Most people have trouble that they are moving their elbow, yours seems to be steady and good. You also have a very nice technique to use against backspin and the changes to use it against topspin are pretty small.

Good luck and keep posting videos. i am interested in seeing the forehand loop.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Anyone know how to embed video?

BH vs Top video below. Notes: I look super awkward... My elbow drifts out to my left too much. I follow through too high and too far to my left. My motion is too big for being at the table. My low back slips into hyperextension a lot thanks to powerlifting. I do hit a few that feel good and seem to have decent quality, but nowhere near reliably.

https://youtu.be/IUxKZjD9PL8

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IUxKZjD9PL8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Sir,

Thank you for sharing video of your practice. Not many members are brave enough to do this, let alone be topless LOL

Thank you and keep up the good work!

~osph

 

[Lula]

Sir,

Thank you for sharing video of your practice. Not many members are brave enough to do this, let alone be topless LOL

Thank you and keep up the good work!

~osph

I totally agree!

I forget to mention that i really like that he is trying to develope his game and his technique by posting a video and asking for help. That is the right mindset if you want to become better. It is way to much focus in this forum on equipment and how i should change my equipment to become better on forehand, more spin or something else. In some cases maybe the equipment need to be changed, but in most cases the technique need to be changed.

 

[Loopadoop]

Anyone know how to embed video?

BH vs Top video below. Notes: I look super awkward... My elbow drifts out to my left too much. I follow through too high and too far to my left. My motion is too big for being at the table. My low back slips into hyperextension a lot thanks to powerlifting. I do hit a few that feel good and seem to have decent quality, but nowhere near reliably.

https://youtu.be/IUxKZjD9PL8

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IUxKZjD9PL8" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Which Ipong do you have ?

What was your settings ?

 

[NextLevel]

TKH13,

The stroke looks level appropriate. A better stroke is too complicated to teach over the internet but involves a better use of the core to support the stroke.

 

[Lula]

TKH13,

The stroke looks level appropriate. A better stroke is too complicated to teach over the internet but involves a better use of the core to support the stroke.

What Do you mean with level appropriate? I agree that it is difficult to teach and learn strokes over the internet. I Also think there is almost No rigth or wrong technique, But somethings that are more rigth and wrong.

In my opinion it is very important to learn somewhat the correct stroke from the beginning so you Do not learn the wrong technique. And i think he need to change his stroke for it to become more correct and for his backhand to be able to become better. Do not feel that it is level appropriate to Do the backhand with more or less the wrong technique.

 

[ttmonster]

Here are my two cents :

Considering the robot is shooting the ball at you at the same pace, same spin and same placement your consistency should be way more higher.

1. Lower the quality of the ball, that is reduce the speed ( not the spin ) ... and try to groove your stroke against the quality that you can make 90% of the balls in and then slowly increase the quality

2. Right now you are rushing your stroke , which means you are not able to tell where the ball is going to come , when its going to come which is resulting in different starting points and ending points .. it should be the same ... which again means that you are not able to reset in time .. also it appears that you are not focused enough and relaxed enough ... the overall target should be getting to a stroke where you have feeling that you are catching the ball and spinning the ball and releasing it .. not just intercepting the ball during its trajectory and shooting it out

Which brings back to point # 1 ... try to slow it down and make it and then increase the quality .. and then you can practice different placement to improve your footwork ...

 

[Der_Echte]

hahahaha, ttmonster really gave TWO cents... oops, I mean two posts.

 

[ttmonster]

Two...che !!!

hahahaha, ttmonster really gave TWO cents... oops, I mean two posts.

 

[NextLevel]

What Do you mean with level appropriate? I agree that it is difficult to teach and learn strokes over the internet. I Also think there is almost No rigth or wrong technique, But somethings that are more rigth and wrong.

In my opinion it is very important to learn somewhat the correct stroke from the beginning so you Do not learn the wrong technique. And i think he need to change his stroke for it to become more correct and for his backhand to be able to become better. Do not feel that it is level appropriate to Do the backhand with more or less the wrong technique.

I agree. But I have spent enough time doing all the things you mention (including coaching adults) to conclude that adults almost never learn the right thing the first time because their physical strength and desires t to hit the ball hard makes them seek ball quality using muscles that a child will not get a quality ball with. On the other hand, when someone is playing for fun, you don't want to discourage them with technical details unless you have already taught them how to think about strokes and the game so that when you communicate with them, they understand you.

I am also not at home to be honest so I can't find and provide my usual videos to explain proper technique. Brett Clarke has a video of William Henzel hitting a backhand topspin vs backspin and a video on the tick whip backhand which is where I would start when teaching backhand technique.

All that said, he is playing the stroke with the right wing with the arm. The problem is that the arm is doing all the work. That is something that can be improved but he seems to be missing the whole concept of hitting the ball with the body. All that said, when learning a stroke, it is common to start out hitting the ball with the arm. Then add the other parts. Hence level appropriate.

 

[Lula]

I agree. But I have spent enough time doing all the things you mention (including coaching adults) to conclude that adults almost never learn the right thing the first time because their physical strength and desires t to hit the ball hard makes them seek ball quality using muscles that a child will not get a quality ball with. On the other hand, when someone is playing for fun, you don't want to discourage them with technical details unless you have already taught them how to think about strokes and the game so that when you communicate with them, they understand you.

I am also not at home to be honest so I can't find and provide my usual videos to explain proper technique. Brett Clarke has a video of William Henzel hitting a backhand topspin vs backspin and a video on the tick whip backhand which is where I would start when teaching backhand technique.

All that said, he is playing the stroke with the right wing with the arm. The problem is that the arm is doing all the work. That is something that can be improved but he seems to be missing the whole concept of hitting the ball with the body. All that said, when learning a stroke, it is common to start out hitting the ball with the arm. Then add the other parts. Hence level appropriate.

I think you are correct that adults, and in my opinion alot of beginners try to use their muscles to much. It seems to be in human nature to want to play crazy hard all the time also haha.

You are proably right, that it is easier to see someone doing the correct stroke, but i also think it is good to try to know what you are doing when you are playing, what to think about. Henzel have a good backhand! I think Brett have nice ways of explaining things. I still think the old throw a frisbee saying is a pretty decent way of explaining the backhand that most people understand.

I do not agree that he need to use the body so much against topspin. Think it is more important against backspin. But we all focus on different things when doing a shot

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@thekleifheit13

Lula and DerEchte have given you very good advice already. I’ll say it again, work on your strokes at a slow tempo. It’s like learning a new song when playing guitar or piano. You learn it at slow tempo before going faster progressively

You are rushing too much, you are trying to use too much power, you need to relax much more, make a more compact gesture, you are using too much wrist. Just focus on timing and hit the ball always at the same distance from your body. You will have to adjust the angle speed spin to the incoming ball.

 

[NextLevel]

I think you are correct that adults, and in my opinion alot of beginners try to use their muscles to much. It seems to be in human nature to want to play crazy hard all the time also haha.

You are proably right, that it is easier to see someone doing the correct stroke, but i also think it is good to try to know what you are doing when you are playing, what to think about. Henzel have a good backhand! I think Brett have nice ways of explaining things. I still think the old throw a frisbee saying is a pretty decent way of explaining the backhand that most people understand.

I do not agree that he need to use the body so much against topspin. Think it is more important against backspin. But we all focus on different things when doing a shot

Throwing a frisbee is a great analogy. If you watch the video TKH13 is throwing a frisbee. Just not the way you want him to.

I don't think topspin and backspin are that different, the issue is always the power of the incoming ball and the amount of power you need to generate a quality outgoing ball. Even strokes that don't look like they ar empowered by the body/core often are, because the body/core adds speed and stability even on small movements. You can see two players doing exactly the same thing if you look on the outside but the way it feels on the inside is different. Also for adults, if they don't have a broad idea of what they are trying to do or a story that works like throwing a frisbee( but you have to supplement it with whatever it takes to get the right things in action), they are usually lost.

So yes, against topspin close to the table, you may use a smaller body motion and arm motion. But that is usually because you are borrowing power from the incoming ball and are often playing a less spiny ball. If you want to produce a powerful topspin close to the table, the core is almost always employed.

 

[Der_Echte]

Next Level is up early in the morning throwing frisbees and quality advice !!

 

[thekleifheit13]

Hey guys, thanks for all the constructive input! For reference the robot was set up for light topspin, the top dial was set to 4 or 5 and the under dial was set to 1. To summarize, I'm taking too big a swing at the ball and not using my body enough. The speed of the incoming ball is causing me to rush, too, which is partly responsible for my body not being very involved. I do ok with the motion of throwing the frisbee when I'm a step further back from the table (won't say I'm great, but the power is adequate), and I need to work on that motion when I'm at the table and keep it smaller. Right now my backhand wing is significantly weaker than my forehand so it's taking priority. Thanks again everyone!

 

[Loopadoop]

Hey guys, thanks for all the constructive input! For reference the robot was set up for light topspin, the top dial was set to 4 or 5 and the under dial was set to 1. To summarize, I'm taking too big a swing at the ball and not using my body enough. The speed of the incoming ball is causing me to rush, too, which is partly responsible for my body not being very involved. I do ok with the motion of throwing the frisbee when I'm a step further back from the table (won't say I'm great, but the power is adequate), and I need to work on that motion when I'm at the table and keep it smaller. Right now my backhand wing is significantly weaker than my forehand so it's taking priority. Thanks again everyone!

Just adding a little, 3 feet length from the table, bend your knees to look like your guarding someone in basketball, if no medical issues.

Watch, YouTube yangyang coaching video for this shot.

 

[Der_Echte]

There are a few ways to get a light topspin ball off the bounce or on the rise and do several different things to the balls.

I would say slow swing down vs that light topspin (man, the way you were swinging I thought it was fast underspin) loosen the wrist, you don't need huge body movement to generate big kinetic energy... the ball has a lot already and you are adding, shaping, guiding the ball at first...

Off the bounce keep wrist loose and go through ball maybe 1/3 of what you are doing, controlled counter stroke vs topspin doesn't require a long stroke.

For stronger shot, let ball come up on rise to net height area... stay loose and firm up wrist at impact some (then more later)… this is also a stroke maybe half or less of what you are doin... slow power down - you will still get a fast ball. You don't need much wrist to make a fast drive... for spin, you need some wrist... at fist, that is difficult to time at impact... so get the impact timing down with the counter drive... then bit by bit go for the spin shot some.

This is a progressive approach, it works, but other ways work too... like compartmentalizing each component and working those individually... or just gutting it out trying to do the whole shot at combat speed and getting more consistent with time... still, I believe the last one is very inefficient for time and result.

These kind of threads really bring out members' ideas and how to communicate them... these threads are great stories about where we are, where we want to go, how we are going and document it. Such historical data is valuable... good stuff man.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Hit a little today, realizing i was swinging so hard because that was my body's way of trying to get the swing done quickly and catch up to the ball coming in fast. Slowed the ball down today and consistency was much better. Still need to work on racket angle but overall felt better. Just need to build repetitive mechanics.