Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[JeffM]

It is good to feel there is still room to improve. Definitely would like to see the videos, especially the no-spin server in singles.

Cool thanks.

I have posted the first match in the video safe thread, but for those that want to comment (but not in the qualified list), you can comment in this thread.

Cheers

 

[blahness]

Cool thanks.

I have posted the first match in the video safe thread, but for those that want to comment (but not in the qualified list), you can comment in this thread.

Cheers

Had a quick look and your BH has improved some leaps and bounds compared to the last videos. Some of those deep high underspin balls I would definitely have missed them with my BH loop 😂 seeing you attempt those and succeed is amazing. I hate those high deep balls to my BH regardless of spin.

At first glance you let him FH loop way too much - if you have doubts on spin and need a safe place to send it, it's the BH and not the FH. Also, I think you push with your FH way too much. Especially against antispin or pips, pushing against them is usually a bad idea, because they can do a lot of nasty stuff against a push (more skilled long pips users will actually target these for sideswiping hard at you, your underspin = their topspin to use to land the fast shots in). I think if you had the FH sideswipe or a safe FH flick it would transition a lot nicer to your very good loops on both wings.

Besides, I think with the push itself you could think about increasing the quality, first by using the entire upper body to push - get close to the ball and rotate into the ball. Use the fingers to add a lot of spin to the push. Take it early and send it to nasty angles with sidespin to get them out of position. For me what helped is also to think of the push as an attacking stroke not a passive one. It's not "I need to land the push on the table", it is "how can I disgust my opponent as much as possible and get him out of position and/or miss his shot"

You played a little too safe at the end of game 1 and 5 which imo you should have won both. Game 1 had some amazing attacks going on - ideally you should be playing like that most of the time.

 

[JeffM]

Had a quick look and your BH has improved some leaps and bounds compared to the last videos. Some of those deep high underspin balls I would definitely have missed them with my BH loop 😂 seeing you attempt those and succeed is amazing. I hate those high deep balls to my BH regardless of spin.

At first glance you let him FH loop way too much - if you have doubts on spin and need a safe place to send it, it's the BH and not the FH. Also, I think you push with your FH way too much. Especially against antispin or pips, pushing against them is usually a bad idea, because they can do a lot of nasty stuff against a push (more skilled long pips users will actually target these for sideswiping hard at you, your underspin = their topspin to use to land the fast shots in). I think if you had the FH sideswipe or a safe FH flick it would transition a lot nicer to your very good loops on both wings.

Besides, I think with the push itself you could think about increasing the quality, first by using the entire upper body to push - get close to the ball and rotate into the ball. Use the fingers to add a lot of spin to the push. Take it early and send it to nasty angles with sidespin to get them out of position. For me what helped is also to think of the push as an attacking stroke not a passive one. It's not "I need to land the push on the table", it is "how can I disgust my opponent as much as possible and get him out of position and/or miss his shot"

You played a little too safe at the end of game 1 and 5 which imo you should have won both. Game 1 had some amazing attacks going on - ideally you should be playing like that most of the time.

Thanks blahness!

I am surprised with my bh too in the match! Yeah haha, I am surprised I got the bhs on too lol. "You can't succed unless you try" right?
Yeah, I feel like I know I need to hit to his bh but somehow I keep giving it to his fh and then getting punished by his spinny fh.. even my friend told me to go to his bh at times.

Thanks for the point about the push, it is definitely something I should work on. Yeah, I thought I had game 1 but he came back.. game 1 felt great until I lost it haha.

The comp certainly made me realise things to improve on!

 

[blahness]

Thanks blahness!

I am surprised with my bh too in the match! Yeah haha, I am surprised I got the bhs on too lol. "You can't succed unless you try" right?
Yeah, I feel like I know I need to hit to his bh but somehow I keep giving it to his fh and then getting punished by his spinny fh.. even my friend told me to go to his bh at times.

Thanks for the point about the push, it is definitely something I should work on. Yeah, I thought I had game 1 but he came back.. game 1 felt great until I lost it haha.

The comp certainly made me realise things to improve on!

Hindsight is always 20/20. I admire those ppl who do all these tactical adjustments on the fly (I'm not one of those). Sometimes it's habitual placements and we have to mentally force ourselves to place the ball differently.

However, it's really hard when you're focusing on technical improvement, and still have to think tactically. For me it's too much and I prefer just to play my own game and be OK with losing. I always focus on technical improvement because I know with sufficient improvement, a lot of these tactical adjustments are no longer needed because you levelled up and the opponent can no longer trouble you. I identify my own weaknesses and fix them one by one until they run out of weaknesses to target, and then I can beat them easily.

 

[NextLevel]

Hindsight is always 20/20. I admire those ppl who do all these tactical adjustments on the fly (I'm not one of those). Sometimes it's habitual placements and we have to mentally force ourselves to place the ball differently.

However, it's really hard when you're focusing on technical improvement, and still have to think tactically. For me it's too much and I prefer just to play my own game and be OK with losing. I always focus on technical improvement because I know with sufficient improvement, a lot of these tactical adjustments are no longer needed because you levelled up and the opponent can no longer trouble you. I identify my own weaknesses and fix them one by one until they run out of weaknesses to target, and then I can beat them easily.

There is some truth in this but you are overstating it probably because you don't compete. Most enduring technical development is tied to getting a tactical edge of some sort. And most technical improvements are usually exposed as tactically insufficient at a higher level and speed of play. Even when training technically, tactical precision with respect to ball placement and spin variation reaps rewards. Technique changes level but when players are skilled, tactics wins matches.

 

[blahness]

There is some truth in this but you are overstating it probably because you don't compete. Most enduring technical development is tied to getting a tactical edge of some sort. And most technical improvements are usually exposed as tactically insufficient at a higher level and speed of play. Even when training technically, tactical precision with respect to ball placement and spin variation reaps rewards. Technique changes level but when players are skilled, tactics wins matches.

Not saying that it's not possible, but it's difficult to focus on both "improving strokes and using them" like what JeffM has been obviously doing with his BH loop, and still having the tactical senses to probe for weakness, develop a strategy and execute it.

I do compete from time to time in casual tournaments but I'm still at a stage where a lot of technical improvements can still be made. For reference, the combination penholder used to beat me to 3-4 points every game when we first started, now I'm about equal with him. He used to play div 1 league in Sydney. I don't mind not playing in a league when I have very high level practice partners better than me with a large variety in style.

 

[NextLevel]

Not saying that it's not possible, but it's difficult to focus on both "improving strokes and using them" like what JeffM has been obviously doing with his BH loop, and still having the tactical senses to probe for weakness, develop a strategy and execute it.

I do compete from time to time in casual tournaments but I'm still at a stage where a lot of technical improvements can still be made. For reference, the combination penholder used to beat me to 3-4 points every game when we first started, now I'm about equal with him. He used to play div 1 league in Sydney. I don't mind not playing in a league when I have very high level practice partners better than me with a large variety in style.

Let me give an example. How many backhands down the line does Jeff play?

 

[JeffM]

Let me give an example. How many backhands down the line does Jeff play?

0 in that match.

 

[JeffM]

I have posted my 2nd (and last) video in the video safe thread.
I found it alot harder to play against this guy than the first guy.
He doesn't seem to move very well, but when he loops and lands, it is quite often gg for me.

Advice would be greatly appreicated. Thanks.

 

[NextLevel]

0 in that match.

Is that a technical issue or a tactical issue? Or maybe you were winning points off the pattern so it didn't matter? Just trying to point out that your body positioning is just like mine so I also have this issue. But that if you are training leg positioning as part of your stroke, the technical enhancement should improve your ability to redirect the ball. Very often tactics and technique interact like this, the improved technique expands your tactical possibilities for hitting/placing the ball.

I have posted my 2nd (and last) video in the video safe thread.
I found it alot harder to play against this guy than the first guy.
He doesn't seem to move very well, but when he loops and lands, it is quite often gg for me.

Advice would be greatly appreicated. Thanks.

Watching the match, you let your memory of it influence you which I think is a bit different from the reality when watching it. You handled his loops well.

 

[ttmonster]

I have posted my 2nd (and last) video in the video safe thread.
I found it alot harder to play against this guy than the first guy.
He doesn't seem to move very well, but when he loops and lands, it is quite often gg for me.

Advice would be greatly appreicated. Thanks.

Hey Jeff !!! Long time no see .. I see you have switched to shakehand ! I wish OldSchoolPenholder was around and active and I could pull his leg ... ...

just wanted to say hello , it was awesome to see you playing so well ... the stability on your backhand is nice to see ...

I would defer to NextLevel for his feedback on strategy and more detailed observations on the overall game ...

Just wanted to say one thing .. because I notice the same thing with my training partner .. he also switched from PH to SH ... again this is just my personal opinion .. would nice to have others validate this .. there seems to be a tendency to use too much arm on the forehand side ... are you by any chance using upboosted hurricane ?

I would suggest looking at forms like this .. and see if you can make more efficient and compact ...

you can even look at RSMs tips here on how to add power to the forehand with body , footwork and weight transfer ...

 

[JeffM]

Hey Jeff !!! Long time no see .. I see you have switched to shakehand ! I wish OldSchoolPenholder was around and active and I could pull his leg ... ...

just wanted to say hello , it was awesome to see you playing so well ... the stability on your backhand is nice to see ...

I would defer to NextLevel for his feedback on strategy and more detailed observations on the overall game ...

Just wanted to say one thing .. because I notice the same thing with my training partner .. he also switched from PH to SH ... again this is just my personal opinion .. would nice to have others validate this .. there seems to be a tendency to use too much arm on the forehand side ... are you by any chance using upboosted hurricane ?

I would suggest looking at forms like this .. and see if you can make more efficient and compact ...

you can even look at RSMs tips here on how to add power to the forehand with body , footwork and weight transfer ...

Hi ttmonster!!!

Long time no see indeed!
I think I have seen you post on a few occasions in the past but perhaps you have missed my posts xD
Hope to see some videos of you playing too! (and OSP)

Yeah OSP was here a few months ago but he doesn't seem to be active nowadays..

Thanks for the compliment. I hope the hard work of driving 50km for a practice is making an effect on my playing. I now realised how lucky I was when I was in the city and how I didn't utilise that opportunity to improve my playing further until now I am away from the city, without the luxury of having abundance of good players around.

I am using unboosted H3.

Thanks for the videos!
I will watch the first video in whole tomorrow as it is now nearly 2am, but the 2nd video seems to be suggesting one to have a bigger swing for more power rather than having compact strokes?

 

[ttmonster]

Hi ttmonster!!!

Long time no see indeed!
I think I have seen you post on a few occasions in the past but perhaps you have missed my posts xD
Hope to see some videos of you playing too! (and OSP)

Yeah OSP was here a few months ago but he doesn't seem to be active nowadays..

Thanks for the compliment. I hope the hard work of driving 50km for a practice is making an effect on my playing. I now realised how lucky I was when I was in the city and how I didn't utilise that opportunity to improve my playing further until now I am away from the city, without the luxury of having abundance of good players around.

I am using unboosted H3.

Thanks for the videos!
I will watch the first video in whole tomorrow as it is now nearly 2am, but the 2nd video seems to be suggesting one to have a bigger swing for more power rather than having compact strokes?

you are right .. but it also talks about the positioning of the foot and how to rotate the body so that the power goes into the ball and is not wasted ... I thought may be something that could help you ... even though its been a while I can see your PH loop style still influencing your current forehand .. and it felt like that you are into more spinning the ball in instead of going forward with it .. hence I thought of suggesting the two videos I did ...

Well I am not a big fan of unboosted H3 so I may be biased ... especially for people who are dealing with knee injuries and such .. as you can see by my current setup ...


I will try to get some video sooner than later ..

 

[NextLevel]

you are right .. but it also talks about the positioning of the foot and how to rotate the body so that the power goes into the ball and is not wasted ... I thought may be something that you could help ... even though its been a while I can see your PH loop style still influencing your current forehand .. and it felt like that you are into more spinning the ball in instead of going forward with it .. hence I thought of suggesting the two videos I did ...

Well I am not a big fan of unboosted H3 so I may be biased ... especially for people who are dealing with knee injuries and such .. as you can see by my current setup ...


I will try to get some video sooner than later ..

the funny thing is that he swings like the videos you proposed on his backhand, on his forehand, he gets good quality, but he doesn't drive the ball forward.

If it is unboosted Hurricane, I have already told him he can get Golden Tango or Dragon Grip or something else... 09c since he is loaded lol... but we will see...

The second video is not so much about bigger strokes but practicing powerful strokes, Powerful strokes require you to close over the ball. But since Jeff is using unboosted Hurricane, his unusual swing trajectory makes a bit more sense to me now.

 

[ttmonster]

the funny thing is that he swings like the videos you proposed on his backhand, on his forehand, he gets good quality, but he doesn't drive the ball forward.

If it is unboosted Hurricane, I have already told him he can get Golden Tango or Dragon Grip or something else... 09c since he is loaded lol... but we will see...

The second video is not so much about bigger strokes but practicing powerful strokes, Powerful strokes require you to close over the ball. But since Jeff is using unboosted Hurricane, his unusual swing trajectory makes a bit more sense to me now.

agree with everything you said

the disadvantage of using unboosted H3 and the resulting swing is that it will be hard to control the counter loop close to the table on incoming topspin .... I would suggest switching to something that gives you more return for your efforts especially at our level ( speed and strength of forearm whip ) ... I would argue at our level we can get away with forearm whip for most balls except really deep and heavy push ... the change will be significant and will need time and patience but will have long term benefits not to mention avoid injury ... too many people I know suffered from serious injuries ( shoulder, back ) from using hurricane .....

 

[blahness]

Let me give an example. How many backhands down the line does Jeff play?

Backhand down the line is a tough stroke especially with the traditional FH stance (left leg in front) and requires a few adjustments which I think Jeff probably doesn't need yet. His diagonal BH varying between targeting the wide BH of the opponent or the middle is probably deadly enough.

I get your point in the other post that technical improvements do open up other tactical possibilities and the 2 are very much intertwined.

I would say that Jeff's lack of other options other than a slow FH push is limiting him a lot - he is losing way too much initiative just because of that FH push. If he had other receive options such as FH sideswipe, flick (dead fast, slow short, hook, fade variations), this will enable a lot other tactical options for him and make him less vulnerable to spin variations on the FH side.

 

[JeffM]

the funny thing is that he swings like the videos you proposed on his backhand, on his forehand, he gets good quality, but he doesn't drive the ball forward.

If it is unboosted Hurricane, I have already told him he can get Golden Tango or Dragon Grip or something else... 09c since he is loaded lol... but we will see...

The second video is not so much about bigger strokes but practicing powerful strokes, Powerful strokes require you to close over the ball. But since Jeff is using unboosted Hurricane, his unusual swing trajectory makes a bit more sense to me now.

I am actually contemplating to change away from hurricane if it is going to improve my fh form to hitting more forward and using the body. I am thinking about Dignics 09c (don't think I am loaded though lol). I did buy the boostser oil for H3 but I never got around to trying it and I don't think I will due to the amount of work required.

 

[ttmonster]

I am actually contemplating to change away from hurricane if it is going to improve my fh form to hitting more forward and using the body. I am thinking about Dignics 09c (don't think I am loaded though lol). I did buy the boostser oil for H3 but I never got around to trying it and I don't think I will due to the amount of work required.

my friends tell me if you know how to do it there is still no rubber like boosted H3 but I have never played with one boosted with dianchi or haifu so i can’t tell you, i have only tried falco and it’s not the same . Dignics 09c is a good choice and so is dignics 05 ( even though non tacky it’s more linear than tenergy 05 and super stable for close to the table counterloops) . I would give any of them a try, just remember to be patient and experiment with different hand grip pressures to master the control .

 

[blahness]

agree with everything you said

the disadvantage of using unboosted H3 and the resulting swing is that it will be hard to control the counter loop close to the table on incoming topspin .... I would suggest switching to something that gives you more return for your efforts especially at our level ( speed and strength of forearm whip ) ... I would argue at our level we can get away with forearm whip for most balls except really deep and heavy push ... the change will be significant and will need time and patience but will have long term benefits not to mention avoid injury ... too many people I know suffered from serious injuries ( shoulder, back ) from using hurricane .....

Agreed - unboosted Hurricane is a pain in the ass to play with. Hurricane 8-80 is good but on the FH definitely too soft (very good at low power levels, sucks at high power levels). If they created a 40 deg version of the 80 sponge or replicate Butterfly's Spring Sponge X tech that'll be perfect.

Dignics is so, so much easier to play with and to create massive spin and speed with. The only thing I miss from Hurricane is push control (especially short push) really. But Dignics is also better in the FH flick department because it is less reactive to spin, so it's not so bad in serve receive really.

 

[Jslick89]

Had a chance to play at table 2 last night in my local league. Mind you, these players are all rated around 1800 and i'm a measly 1530.

I had 2 match points against the #2 at our table but ultimately lost after they made a killer loop at deuces, and then won their match point right off their serve. Against the #3, I took him to the 5th game but lost 11-8. I'm proud of how i played. My serve tactics and ability to rally with these guys was evident. Gives me the confidence to know that I do belong at these higher tables!

Back to the drawing board!