Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[latej]

I removed the used Rxton 9 rubber from the blade today and all the glue remained on the blade. Beautiful. From the blade in 1 piece. I guess it maybe due to the remains of old chinese/vietnamiese perfumed oils which I added to my booster mix. It not only makes it smell good ;-)

 

[dingyibvs]

Excellent PechPong video - I found the analysis excellent as usual!

Seth has the best tutorials from the West IMO. Most of footwork comes pretty natural to me, but there are some things that I had to watch tutorials to learn. The pivot at the BH corner by stepping up with the left foot was one. This video also had one about deep push to the wide FH, and how you should can then take the ball early. That's very interesting and I haven't thought of that before. Since I like big swings my natural move has always been to use the 2nd option. This is a variation I can try out.

 

[dingyibvs]

I did some training today. Inspired by Seth's video I added some more footwork to my practices. I started off with some service practices with a recovery step and a shadow practice 3rd ball push or loop. I then did some BH down the line practice against topspins. I can land them pretty well now, but struggling mightily to make them with quality. I then did some BH against backspin practice, much shorter than before as I can hit those with very high percentage and pretty good quality now.

I spent the rest of the practice doing a FH receive of a short backspin ball then looping a long backspin to my BH, eventually adding variations like following that up with a 3rd topspin ball to my FH, BH, then whole table. This was a very taxing drill, moving in and then out for the BH opening loop drastically reduced my consistency, and doing an opening loop then random whole table topspin counter also drastically reduced my countering consistency. I got a bit better by the end of the practice, but still nowhere near where I need to be.

It's also a really exhausting drill. All the in and out movement really tires out my legs, but I'm so glad to have found a drill that's so applicable to game situations and is such a great workout to boot! I bought a new sound bar for the TV in the garage, and as I was exhausted and required more breaks near the end it was a great experience watching some WTT Finals during my breaks

 

[OvrChkn]

Did some movement drills and practice matches tonight. Absolutely exhausted. Finally got a few matches recorded, so I'll go through those, edit, and hopefully post this weekend if I can get to it.

 

[Der_Echte]

I did some training today. Inspired by Seth's video I added some more footwork to my practices. I started off with some service practices with a recovery step and a shadow practice 3rd ball push or loop. I then did some BH down the line practice against topspins. I can land them pretty well now, but struggling mightily to make them with quality. I then did some BH against backspin practice, much shorter than before as I can hit those with very high percentage and pretty good quality now.

I spent the rest of the practice doing a FH receive of a short backspin ball then looping a long backspin to my BH, eventually adding variations like following that up with a 3rd topspin ball to my FH, BH, then whole table. This was a very taxing drill, moving in and then out for the BH opening loop drastically reduced my consistency, and doing an opening loop then random whole table topspin counter also drastically reduced my countering consistency. I got a bit better by the end of the practice, but still nowhere near where I need to be.

It's also a really exhausting drill. All the in and out movement really tires out my legs, but I'm so glad to have found a drill that's so applicable to game situations and is such a great workout to boot! I bought a new sound bar for the TV in the garage, and as I was exhausted and required more breaks near the end it was a great experience watching some WTT Finals during my breaks

Wait until you have to do the explosive footwork movement and explosive shot making combo drills...

... step in BH short receive, next BH loop, then pivot and FH topspin, block goes down FH line and you cross-step to get that and loop, then block goes to BH, you cross-step to get that, then pivot FH and do it ALLL OVER AGAIN and AGAIN.

You might make it through 2-3 of those before you are looking for a defibrillator AED machine. Then you gotta do that again and again and 5-8 minutes feels like FOREVER.

 

[dingyibvs]

Wait until you have to do the explosive footwork movement and explosive shot making combo drills...

... step in BH short receive, next BH loop, then pivot and FH topspin, block goes down FH line and you cross-step to get that and loop, then block goes to BH, you cross-step to get that, then pivot FH and do it ALLL OVER AGAIN and AGAIN.

You might make it through 2-3 of those before you are looking for a defibrillator AED machine. Then you gotta do that again and again and 5-8 minutes feels like FOREVER.

Yeah, I'll be adding more combos gradually to this. I do have the first 3 shots in my combos, though if you BH loop the opening loop then you don't need to cross-step to get to the wide FH block.

BTW, I was doing some training tonight, this type of combo specifically, when a buddy came to visit. We smoked some MJ and I showed him the robot and some of the drills. I hardly smoke these days, so this is actually the first time I tried the robot after smoking, and I actually did super well! I was so focused on the ball, and my movement is entirely without thought. I kind of just did it, and the balls seemed slower, all the shots were landing with quality, and I could direct it wherever I wanted. It was like magic Anyone else ever tried it before?

 

[Tyce]

Hi, I'm new here and figured I'd start by mingling in the chit chat
I just had my first training session since 2010 and I'm planning to get myself back into the game. My gear is old as you might imagine, and apparently so is my memories of the clubs I used to frequently visit. I moved house since I stopped playing and my old club has been all but decimated in terms of member count. :O
I have quite a few specific questions, but maybe it's better to kick off a few threads for them?

Anyway, it's good to hit the balls again.

 

[dingyibvs]

I also found that if I take a little jump backwards after the BH opening loop, it makes the follow up shot much easier. Now that's not particularly surprising, but I tried to make the drill hard by making it relatively fast, less than 1 second between the long backspin and the following topspin. So I was only able to jump back maybe 6 inches before the next ball arrived, yet surprisingly it made a world of difference. Whereas before I'd be jammed up only able to make an arm-only counter, with the extra room I could now make a much more consistent and powerful loop with the body from both wings.

I do the step back naturally after a FH opening loop, but I guess I'm not confident enough with the BH opening loop so I end up standing in one place to watch if it lands instead of moving right after. Now this jump back is gonna be a part of my training.

 

[blahness]

I also found that if I take a little jump backwards after the BH opening loop, it makes the follow up shot much easier. Now that's not particularly surprising, but I tried to make the drill hard by making it relatively fast, less than 1 second between the long backspin and the following topspin. So I was only able to jump back maybe 6 inches before the next ball arrived, yet surprisingly it made a world of difference. Whereas before I'd be jammed up only able to make an arm-only counter, with the extra room I could now make a much more consistent and powerful loop with the body from both wings.

I do the step back naturally after a FH opening loop, but I guess I'm not confident enough with the BH opening loop so I end up standing in one place to watch if it lands instead of moving right after. Now this jump back is gonna be a part of my training.

It actually depends on what you do with the shot, ie your shot placement and quality should determine where you recover to (cutting off the angles from the opponent and making them do a low percentage shot to hit the ball past you).

But there definitely needs to be a recovery reset split step after a loop - not sure if Seth mentioned it in his video.

 

[dingyibvs]

It actually depends on what you do with the shot, ie your shot placement and quality should determine where you recover to (cutting off the angles from the opponent and making them do a low percentage shot to hit the ball past you).

But there definitely needs to be a recovery reset split step after a loop - not sure if Seth mentioned it in his video.

Good point, that's probably an issue for me in real games as well. The robot only shoots from the center position, so I always recover to the same position. I do find that I often recovery to an overly neutral position during games.

Depth is a factor I haven't really thought too much about, but it was actually our conversation re: LYJ's playing distance that sparked my interest in it. One thing the new WTT angle does a great job of is showing the depth players play from and their footwork moving to and from their preferred depths. I noticed that even guys known for their close to the table counter game like LYJ, LGY, or FZD usually play about 4-5 feet, or 1/2 table length, away from the table. That's also about the area I back off to when I do the loop portion of my warmups or loop trainings.

During my games, I'd stay at the same depth (1-3 feet) as right after I serve except for after a FH loop. That's the only time I'd back off to ~4 feet away without being forced to do so. When I do rapid FH/BH counter training I'd be at least 3 feet away. In other words I'd been playing at a different depth from my training, yet attempting to execute the same shots.

My experience is that intentionally changing footwork is not super easy. You really don't wanna worry about footwork when playing. I'll have to train a lot to get that ingrained. With that said, I feel like my FH and BH motions are reasonably well trained now, when I miss from the appropriate depth it's usually a misjudgment of the ball issue, so I could afford to pay a bit more attention to my footwork now.

 

[dingyibvs]

Played at the Pleasanton club today, practiced against the same lefty as last week. At the end of last week's session we had some free play, and we were pretty even. This week, however, I was significantly better. Turns out the footwork practice is what I've been missing, as my BH opening loop was basically automatic and I can place it cross table and down the line. I've always known that footwork is important, but I only incorporated left/right movement without realizing that what I was missing was the in/out movement. I feel so comfortable with the BH opening loop now!

With an intentional move backward to ~4-5 feet away from the table using small jump steps, I don't really get jammed up anymore either. FH/BH counters still need some work, but I think the first step is now taken care of. In between practice sets, which are pretty rough on my legs, I also practiced services, with a focus on fast long services to the corners. @Tony's Table Tennis championed his strategy of starting off with short FH/BH and long FH/BH, so that's what I tried out. I was already solid at the short services, but I practiced them a bit as well with a focus on very wide angles. The combo of those 4 were hilariously effective, particularly since I can now place so much pressure on him with a full table 3rd ball attack.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

so i went to watch TLeague today, a Women's match between Kinoshita and Kyoto.

All matchups were fantastic. Miyus came back in G3 to win the doubles at deuce while the first 2 games were split 11-10 at the golden point. Next, Sakura YOKOI trashed Miu HIRANO with great class 3-0. Is it really the player that Japan will send at the Olympics ? It was interesting to see YOKOI execute Chiquita from FH side like LIN Yunju. Also a signature shot from her coach SAKAMOTO whom i see it do it so many times when he used to coach me in a previous life of him
Miwa HARIMOTO v Honoka HASHIMOTO was the best match of the day. after G1 won 11-4 by Miwa i was betting for a quick 3-0 victory. but it wasn't the case. It was a full set game going out at deuce in G5 with Miwa coming from behind. Some fantastic attack v defence points and I've never seen Honoka ever play that good. What was totally new was her powerful sudden FH drive attacks. much better that those of SATO or SUH Hyowon or HAN Ying. I think she can surprise many players when she is back in WTT opens.
The last match, Miyu KIHARA was playing perfectly and totally destroyed Satsuki ODO 3-0. It looked like an exhibition match.

in the pre-match, i accepted the MIZUTANI's serve challenge. After a long wait in the line, here it is

---
After the match i went home and quickly grabbed my sports bag and went to the TT venue
Only to find out that i forgot my racket at home because i had taken my racket in a separate bag for the TLeague

I was about to give up and go home when a kind teenager lent me his spare racket. a Zhang Jike Carbon with 2 sheets of Dignics (05 and 80).

OMG i played fantastic. It was so easy to execute drives and loops on both wings. It was so powerful and spinny compared to what I produce with my Tibhar setup. i produced ridiculous shots, my usual buddy was so surprised and so was I. It makes me wonder whether i should change. Of course its only one aspect of the game. I'm super worried of blocks and even more of receiving, pushing and the short game with it. thats the area where i feel i got an improvement with the Tibhar.

But after 1 year of the Tibhar i believe i have improved my technique. maybe it is time to give a try again to a faster setup ?

 

[Emin]

I can recommend stuor, if you want to try any sort of carbon, alc, zlc, inner Outer blade.
Cheap and good quality.
Yinhe as well.
Pair it with some cheap Chinese tacky or semi tacky rubbers and you can get really good Equipment for ~ 100 Euros.
There is a reason why so many people, including pros change to tacky and hybrid rubbers.
They allow you to Hit a variety of shots with similar or the same movement and produce good quality the way you want to.
In simple terms control,
with more Potential outcome if you put the effort into it.

 

[Der_Echte]

There's no need for full on 90 deg body rotation like Kreanga but it cannot be 0 deg - this shows that the movement is not coming from or being initiated by the lower body which is one of the most important concepts in powerful and controlled topspin play.

You can see clearly Harimoto places his right hip (and consequently his right shoulder) in front of his left at max backswing - see 1:05

With this short hip rotation it also becomes much easier to disguise down the line vs diagonal shots.

There are two easy ways to go down the line (short side of table to opponent's FH line if he is a RH player and you are too) with power and not sacrifice consistency. (that does not involve crazy and dangerous contortion of wrist or shoulder) (that does not involve taking a step to change position either)

One of them is the way you advocated blahness. That will work well for a ball that comes at you to the left of you (if you are a RH player) As ball comes to you, you pivot on your ankles some and bend knee some... this lets you rotate your waist and chest 30 degrees real subtle like to the left... opponents do not notice this. What you are doing in effect is rotating the strike zone to the side... so that when ball comes to your newly established strike zone, you are squared down the line short side of table... you are able to hit with full power and control... because you set a good strike zone and have good leverage.

You made the power on this shot not because you rotated hips, but because you already had leverage. The hips are not uncoiling to add power, they moved so you could move the strike zone to your left and hit with power using leverage you already established. This also works for blocking fast incoming shots to your BH (if the ball comes at you a little left of your belly)

Another way is when the call is coming at your body, somewhere between the left side of your belly (for a RH player) or at your belly button. If the ball is coming anywhere in this zone, you can slide your strike zone to the right by getting elbow in front and move arm and bat to the right... so that the bat is now prepped in front or a tiny to the right of your belly button... you now strike the ball when it is 8 to 9 inches in front of you... now your impact is squared to go to the short side of table down opponent FH line for a winner... he doesn't see it coming, you can hit full power and control, because you had a good strike zone and hit ball in zone.

These are two adjustments from base position to hit the ball short side of table without having to reposition feet and do not involve making crazy wrist of shoulder joint adjustment.

There are other adjustments to hit the ball cross court too, talk about those later.

 

[blahness]

There are two easy ways to go down the line (short side of table to opponent's FH line if he is a RH player and you are too) with power and not sacrifice consistency. (that does not involve crazy and dangerous contortion of wrist or shoulder) (that does not involve taking a step to change position either)

One of them is the way you advocated blahness. That will work well for a ball that comes at you to the left of you (if you are a RH player) As ball comes to you, you pivot on your ankles some and bend knee some... this lets you rotate your waist and chest 30 degrees real subtle like to the left... opponents do not notice this. What you are doing in effect is rotating the strike zone to the side... so that when ball comes to your newly established strike zone, you are squared down the line short side of table... you are able to hit with full power and control... because you set a good strike zone and have good leverage.

You made the power on this shot not because you rotated hips, but because you already had leverage. The hips are not uncoiling to add power, they moved so you could move the strike zone to your left and hit with power using leverage you already established. This also works for blocking fast incoming shots to your BH (if the ball comes at you a little left of your belly)

Another way is when the call is coming at your body, somewhere between the left side of your belly (for a RH player) or at your belly button. If the ball is coming anywhere in this zone, you can slide your strike zone to the right by getting elbow in front and move arm and bat to the right... so that the bat is now prepped in front or a tiny to the right of your belly button... you now strike the ball when it is 8 to 9 inches in front of you... now your impact is squared to go to the short side of table down opponent FH line for a winner... he doesn't see it coming, you can hit full power and control, because you had a good strike zone and hit ball in zone.

These are two adjustments from base position to hit the ball short side of table without having to reposition feet and do not involve making crazy wrist of shoulder joint adjustment.

There are other adjustments to hit the ball cross court too, talk about those later.

Positioning is important, but i can tell easily if someone doesn't know how to use the lower body (particularly hip rotation) in BH, they aren't gonna hit the ball with any good power at all, even if they are in a perfect position. It'll be even worse if they're in a bad position. That's why even in the matches you can see them refusing to open up and just push on the BH.

A lot of those Korean videos don't show them hitting the ball with a lot of sting and is a very basic rally BH. Whereas if you look at someone who uses the body well (say Ti Long), the speed and spin is visibly a lot stronger.

 

[dingyibvs]

Went to the Pleasanton club again today, had some good blocking and BH practice. This was the first time ever that I was so good with close to the table BH attacks, with excellent quality and consistency. That was practice of course, it'll take some time before I can use my BH with such confidence in games.

Overall it was a good session, ended it with some free play against one of thr better players there. Really held my own, I'd be able to beat him if my BH attack was as good as it was in practice, but it was much better than before. I have the same issue with my BH loop against topspin as against backspin, having trouble when having to move in and out. I'll be incorporating that into my training as well.

5 straight days of training/playing with a focus on footwork has been exhausting for my legs. I working Sunday and Monday night, so I'll be resting those 2 days and hopefully be back at it Tuesday.

On the plus side, I've finally lost all the weight I gained when I was injured! I had gotten up to 185lbs, and I once tipped the scale at 190lbs after a big meal, which is when I decided I need to lose weight. I'm now much stronger than I ever was, even in college days, and with my weight back down to ~173, around where I was before the injury.

I don't think I need to get any stronger, so I'll change up my workouts, but I'll continue to try to lose some more weight. That should make me faster around the table, and help my footwork as well!

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi @dingyibvs my friends ended up not being so enthusiastic to go 2 hrs to bay area...

I have been to the Pleasanton TT club a few times. You can often find players your level or better there and some people like to play doubles. There are a few places in that place where you cannot do a high toss FH pendulum serve... lights in the way.

My weight runs around 230 lbs and I am getting closer to 60 in age... but I can still move around and get there. The key is a good stance small knee bend at opponent impact and the correct or efficient first step (assuming you did a good job discerning opponent's impact). You can still move well at 185 or even 200 and you are way younger than me.

One key for you on your BH in match play is reading where the ball is gunna go when with what juice and decide early what/how you want to respond. Good opponents make that task difficult, they are not there to make life easy for you. When you get better at that and use that lower arm more and control your strike zone more, it gets easier.

 

[Der_Echte]

As a contrast, when I started TT in my 40s in Korea, the ex-pro chopper coach smoked me 2x weekly with footwork drills 80% of lesson... I was 185-190 back then and prolly in the best physical condition of my life. I smoked Soldiers running uphill interval workouts.

I prolly now move around the court many times better than when I was uber fit. I see the ball better and move my feet better, especially first step and my stance is better. That counts for a lot more than physical condition or athleticism.

 

[Emin]

Today Was probably my last tournament for a while.
Season is starting and there are no more real big tournaments.

I am not super satisfied with my Performance but winning wasnt my main purpose.
I aimed on Improving my mentality and focus and generally implementing parts of training into my game.
That worked better and I could learn a lot in the last 2 or 3 weeks.

And I will probably switch back to the Yinhe Pro 05 with Battle 3 and G1.
I switched after 2 games today and I could win more and play more confidently.

My forehand was getting better and backhand wasnt a problem.
I could finish more points and in General I did not have to worry to much about making a correctly adjusted stroke.
Short game and receive was also more controlled which helped as well.

I spent most of my time learning to loop properly and loop in a Chinese way with this blade and not an Outer ALC/ZLC blade like the LYJ.
And also the Pro 05 is made for for these type of forehand loops.

And with G1 on BH it felt good as well.
Could finish points from far away and open up as well.
Some good BH serves and counter drives as well.

I still have things to work on, but overall a successfull off season.

 

[blahness]

Continued experimenting with the racket kept high mindset and philosophy on the FH and I feel like it is a big game changer even vs underspin, and in general.

The key takeaway is that dropping the bat (relative to the body) is very costly in terms of time (and positioning) on both BH and FH - even if the ball is low or has heavy underspin you go low with the body, not the arm. I used to drop my racket down on the FH to get more spin, which made my FH always late which forced me to mid to far distance which is not where I like to be. Worse, this makes it almost impossible to react properly against sudden down the line switches because by the time i did a backswing the ball is already behind me unless I stepped backwards diagonally to loop the ball - but then when it was blocked to my wide BH i actually need to do continuous mid distance looping or even fishing with my BH (not impossible but not a great position to be in). And against sudden dropshots, because my bat was already dropped, there was no way I could raise it up again to kill the short ball (or even receive it properly). Now that I see it, this is probably why Xu Xin was always forced away from the table too - he also loves to drop the racket and straighten the arm to max during the backswing.

So with the racket high, I feel like there are some huge speed advantages. And as I watched some new gen players like Lin Shidong and Sun Yingsha, this is exactly what they do too.

1) you get to the ball much faster and can hit in advantageous positions and a lot earlier and more aggressively with the FH which places a lot of pressure on the opponent. Recovery is also much faster because your centre of gravity doesn't change much.

2) way easier to be more consistent against topspin because your shots are always directed more forward and less upwards.

3) the transitions between FH and BH counters and loops become way easier.

4) transitions between short and long balls are much easier because you never have to decide if the racket should be high and low (and knock it into the table)

5) you still have the option to drop the racket and straighten the arm for more explosive power when the opportunity presents itself.

it's my 2nd session of changing and I already feel that I gained a lot of speed in terms of holding the table and I was able to get to the down the line switches far more easily now (and even continue attacking the next balls close table with either BH or FH). I also did a lot of random topspin drills and it's the first time I felt like there's some potential of becoming an actual topspin rally monster.

There are some advantages with dropping the racket (namely more spin) but I feel like that's overrated in today's plastic ball age compared to gaining power+speed and positioning advantages over opponents. You can still drop the racket if the incoming ball is easy or slow, but it shouldn't be your default stroke. Especially with advanced rubbers now like Dignics which create so much spin just with the fingers, you can do a lot even with a smaller arm movement, and be quite consistent with your strokes.