Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[blahness]

so i went to watch TLeague today, a Women's match between Kinoshita and Kyoto.

All matchups were fantastic. Miyus came back in G3 to win the doubles at deuce while the first 2 games were split 11-10 at the golden point. Next, Sakura YOKOI trashed Miu HIRANO with great class 3-0. Is it really the player that Japan will send at the Olympics ? It was interesting to see YOKOI execute Chiquita from FH side like LIN Yunju. Also a signature shot from her coach SAKAMOTO whom i see it do it so many times when he used to coach me in a previous life of him
Miwa HARIMOTO v Honoka HASHIMOTO was the best match of the day. after G1 won 11-4 by Miwa i was betting for a quick 3-0 victory. but it wasn't the case. It was a full set game going out at deuce in G5 with Miwa coming from behind. Some fantastic attack v defence points and I've never seen Honoka ever play that good. What was totally new was her powerful sudden FH drive attacks. much better that those of SATO or SUH Hyowon or HAN Ying. I think she can surprise many players when she is back in WTT opens.
The last match, Miyu KIHARA was playing perfectly and totally destroyed Satsuki ODO 3-0. It looked like an exhibition match.

in the pre-match, i accepted the MIZUTANI's serve challenge. After a long wait in the line, here it is

---
After the match i went home and quickly grabbed my sports bag and went to the TT venue
Only to find out that i forgot my racket at home because i had taken my racket in a separate bag for the TLeague

I was about to give up and go home when a kind teenager lent me his spare racket. a Zhang Jike Carbon with 2 sheets of Dignics (05 and 80).

OMG i played fantastic. It was so easy to execute drives and loops on both wings. It was so powerful and spinny compared to what I produce with my Tibhar setup. i produced ridiculous shots, my usual buddy was so surprised and so was I. It makes me wonder whether i should change. Of course its only one aspect of the game. I'm super worried of blocks and even more of receiving, pushing and the short game with it. thats the area where i feel i got an improvement with the Tibhar.

But after 1 year of the Tibhar i believe i have improved my technique. maybe it is time to give a try again to a faster setup ?

Omg you did an around the net loop against the Mizutani serve?! What a showman lol... if you would have continued using the FH for that smash and then maybe there would be a smash vs lob rally and you might have won the point against Mizutani haha...

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Omg you did an around the net loop against the Mizutani serve?! What a showman lol... if you would have continued using the FH for that smash and then maybe there would be a smash vs lob rally and you might have won the point against Mizutani haha...

it was the Mizutani serve challenge. He was not supposed to play the point and he never even tried to put the table back to the few people who managed to get it back
so while I prepared myself well to receive, i wasn't at all in the mindset of playing the point

but tbh i do the same mistake in match, i rely on my BH smash which has a rather good accuracy, and a shot im very confident with, but if / when im late on the ball, yes its stupid to go for it, and i had ample time to play safely a FH topspin shot. I always do the same mistake and thats something i should correct.

there were maybe 100 people who went for the challenge and i was the last to go. I could see that 80% of the time Mizutani was doing that serve so i was ready for it. He served very rarely down the line, or the YG serve. the other serve he often did was half long pure side spin or no spin, I would have more difficulties on this one. I could do image training while waiting and i executed quite well the shot even though I was a bit too far from the ball.

 

[blahness]

it was the Mizutani serve challenge. He was not supposed to play the point and he never even tried to put the table back to the few people who managed to get it back
so while I prepared myself well to receive, i wasn't at all in the mindset of playing the point

but tbh i do the same mistake in match, i rely on my BH smash which has a rather good accuracy, and a shot im very confident with, but if / when im late on the ball, yes its stupid to go for it, and i had ample time to play safely a FH topspin shot. I always do the same mistake and thats something i should correct.

there were maybe 100 people who went for the challenge and i was the last to go. I could see that 80% of the time Mizutani was doing that serve so i was ready for it. He served very rarely down the line, or the YG serve. the other serve he often did was half long pure side spin or no spin, I would have more difficulties on this one. I could do image training while waiting and i executed quite well the shot even though I was a bit too far from the ball.

Yeah I sometimes try to BH smash too but i never did well with it in terms of accuracy lol. I actually kinda just use a badminton overhead smash action (with the FH rubber but on the BH side) if I didn't reach the position properly and it works a bit better than a BH smash for me.

How did the serve feel to you in terms of trajectory and spin quality - was it overwhelmingly heavy compared to high level amateurs or is it more of the deception that is more advanced?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Yeah I sometimes try to BH smash too but i never did well with it in terms of accuracy lol. I actually kinda just use a badminton overhead smash action (with the FH rubber but on the BH side) if I didn't reach the position properly and it works a bit better than a BH smash for me.

How did the serve feel to you in terms of trajectory and spin quality - was it overwhelmingly heavy compared to high level amateurs or is it more of the deception that is more advanced?

actually if you followed my previous posts, its the 3rd time for me that i have the opportunity to have Mizutani on the other side of the table. Once was when our team was featured in a TV program, and basically i was aced twice (or thrice ?), next at a similar pre-Tleague match event where he aced me again

I learnt from my past mistakes. Yes its high quality of everything. amount of spin, height of ball, placement, deception. He can change at the last moment, or you can see only last moment whats he is doing.

Because it wasn't a match, he was serving 98%+ in the right half table, and not only that, but 80+% of his serves was exactly the same serve he did to me. I saw him only serve once maybe twice on the other side out of c. 100 balls.

Then this kind of receive from lefties (or the BH serve from RH player from FH side à-la-Jorgic/Dima), its one of my weakness, so i've been practicing with my coach regularly. Actually if my head was thinking more clearly, i could have tried the underspin loop (like Simon Gauzy often do, but we can see Truls or others , actually on my Instagram just saw FZD doing such a winner against WCQ) which i've also practiced.

so i knew how to step to the ball. and how to execute. But for the ball contact what also helped in my recent practice is to be totally relaxed body and arm. so i focused also on that. and also on not rushing. We're not playing a real point, i don't need to take the ball near the top of the bounce but can wait to see better how it curves and what spin it has.

But yeh now i have to practice to get back in position... I could have hit his testicles or his eyes with that BH smash !

 

[blahness]

actually if you followed my previous posts, its the 3rd time for me that i have the opportunity to have Mizutani on the other side of the table. Once was when our team was featured in a TV program, and basically i was aced twice (or thrice ?), next at a similar pre-Tleague match event where he aced me again

I learnt from my past mistakes. Yes its high quality of everything. amount of spin, height of ball, placement, deception. He can change at the last moment, or you can see only last moment whats he is doing.

Because it wasn't a match, he was serving 98%+ in the right half table, and not only that, but 80+% of his serves was exactly the same serve he did to me. I saw him only serve once maybe twice on the other side out of c. 100 balls.

Then this kind of receive from lefties (or the BH serve from RH player from FH side à-la-Jorgic/Dima), its one of my weakness, so i've been practicing with my coach regularly. Actually if my head was thinking more clearly, i could have tried the underspin loop (like Simon Gauzy often do, but we can see Truls or others , actually on my Instagram just saw FZD doing such a winner against WCQ) which i've also practiced.

so i knew how to step to the ball. and how to execute. But for the ball contact what also helped in my recent practice is to be totally relaxed body and arm. so i focused also on that. and also on not rushing. We're not playing a real point, i don't need to take the ball near the top of the bounce but can wait to see better how it curves and what spin it has.

But yeh now i have to practice to get back in position... I could have hit his testicles or his eyes with that BH smash !

Yep FZD did an underspin loop in the last set against WCQ (who pushed it into the net). I actually tried to practice it but I couldnt do it with any degree of consistency. I thought you looked real good especially with the multiple split steps and bounces (ala the Lebruns) just before the server contacts the ball which is why you got into a pretty good position to do the around the net loop.

The recovery split step did look a bit convoluted haha...

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Yep FZD did an underspin loop in the last set against WCQ (who pushed it into the net). I actually tried to practice it but I couldnt do it with any degree of consistency. I thought you looked real good especially with the multiple split steps and bounces (ala the Lebruns) just before the server contacts the ball which is why you got into a pretty good position to do the around the net loop.

The recovery split step did look a bit convoluted haha...

Well, there is a video from Kenta Matsudaira who explains that when you step to play to your short FH or on the side of the table it is important to move the LEFT leg first.
It gives more stability and enables to get closer to the ball. It’s a good habit to take and you can easily work it with shadow training.

Of course the second important thing is that you stay low while you move.

Then to execute the round the net shot put your weight on the right leg. And start to turn your waist early you need it for power. But don’t swing too early because it’s difficult to read the trajectory.

Finally stay relaxed !!!

To do the under spin shot you need to twist the wrist inside like for the YG serve and carry the ball, contact it from under

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Only in China moment.

Even the tea-lady / janitor / 扫地阿姨 can play better than some National Team Members.

 

[dingyibvs]

Had some good practice at the nearby club today. Played a couple games to start. While my training will still focus on the BH this week, I'm starting to shift my gameplay to all around, meaning a lot more FH. My style was always to attack with near maximum speed on the FH side with anything that goes long, but somewhere along the way of BH practices I lost that aggressiveness. Fortunately it didn't take too long to get it back. One of the guy I played with likes to do soft blocks, which were difficult to attack with my new footwork of moving back since those shots usually come back low and half long. A couple sets in, I was able to step in and drive those weak blocks back with my FH. That felt good.

Later on I did some BH practices with a guy who's also interested in BH practices. I tried to utilize what @blahness was talking about, actively using my thumb and index finger to generate spin. That game my BH shots a ton of control and quality, I was very pleased with it! That's something I'll be looking to incorporate with all BH shots from now on. I'm also getting a lot better at using my body to get a bit more oomph.

Another thing I've discovered is to use my legs to find the height of the ball rather than my arms. I used to have trouble during BH counters when the partner would vary the speed/spin. When my partner would suddenly launch a more powerful shot that's faster and spinnier, the ball would of course arrive sooner but also take a flatter trajectory and bounce lower. I would have trouble getting my racket low enough to counter it back, and the only thing I could then do is to block. However, I've found that instead of trying to get my racket lower, I can just bend my legs more and get my whole body lower, then I can use a similar arm motion to counter the shot, and this made a profound difference in the consistency and quality of my counters. It does requires me to be active with my legs with every shot during training, which is what I need to be doing anyway, though previously I had only been actively trying to adjust left and right and not so much up and down to get into the optimal position for each shot. I've only tried it a few times, but I think this should be applicable against FH loops as well. This should also be useful against higher balls which I sometimes struggle with.

 

[blahness]

Had some good practice at the nearby club today. Played a couple games to start. While my training will still focus on the BH this week, I'm starting to shift my gameplay to all around, meaning a lot more FH. My style was always to attack with near maximum speed on the FH side with anything that goes long, but somewhere along the way of BH practices I lost that aggressiveness. Fortunately it didn't take too long to get it back. One of the guy I played with likes to do soft blocks, which were difficult to attack with my new footwork of moving back since those shots usually come back low and half long. A couple sets in, I was able to step in and drive those weak blocks back with my FH. That felt good.

Later on I did some BH practices with a guy who's also interested in BH practices. I tried to utilize what @blahness was talking about, actively using my thumb and index finger to generate spin. That game my BH shots a ton of control and quality, I was very pleased with it! That's something I'll be looking to incorporate with all BH shots from now on. I'm also getting a lot better at using my body to get a bit more oomph.

Another thing I've discovered is to use my legs to find the height of the ball rather than my arms. I used to have trouble during BH counters when the partner would vary the speed/spin. When my partner would suddenly launch a more powerful shot that's faster and spinnier, the ball would of course arrive sooner but also take a flatter trajectory and bounce lower. I would have trouble getting my racket low enough to counter it back, and the only thing I could then do is to block. However, I've found that instead of trying to get my racket lower, I can just bend my legs more and get my whole body lower, then I can use a similar arm motion to counter the shot, and this made a profound difference in the consistency and quality of my counters. It does requires me to be active with my legs with every shot during training, which is what I need to be doing anyway, though previously I had only been actively trying to adjust left and right and not so much up and down to get into the optimal position for each shot. I've only tried it a few times, but I think this should be applicable against FH loops as well. This should also be useful against higher balls which I sometimes struggle with.

Yes, learning that thumb+index finger lever arm action on the BH transformed my BH. It made producing heavy af topspin really easy. It also made chiquita a lot easier.

2nd point about using the body to adjust for different ball trajectories is also spot on, and is the key for consistency. This is also the modern BH where the focus is on using more body and less arm. In fact the other trick is not to drop the racket down with arm (usually ppl straighten the arm during the backswing to get lower to lift backspin and this is imo time costly for both BH and FH) and in general not to have any arm backswing at all as that makes you slower in shot preparation. You basically prepare the shot by using the body and the legs only.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yes, learning that thumb+index finger lever arm action on the BH transformed my BH. It made producing heavy af topspin really easy. It also made chiquita a lot easier.

2nd point about using the body to adjust for different ball trajectories is also spot on, and is the key for consistency. This is also the modern BH where the focus is on using more body and less arm. In fact the other trick is not to drop the racket down with arm (usually ppl straighten the arm during the backswing to get lower to lift backspin and this is imo time costly for both BH and FH) and in general not to have any arm backswing at all as that makes you slower in shot preparation. You basically prepare the shot by using the body and the legs only.

Right, even thr swing doesn't have to be that different for backspin, I just open my bat angle a bit and let the body/legs do the lifting.

 

[Der_Echte]

The fate of the future of 2x a week TT at the Russian Church is under debate and decision... hopefully favorably for us all, but when a bunch of players are individually and collectively cheapskate freeloading stiffnecks, it is tough to do things as a group for the benefit of the group.

This may cause the TT not to happen at the Slavic church for free for hours on end play in a great place... then the cockroaches will be scurrying to find tt action for free.... and they will not find it unless they go to someone's garage and freeload of them.

 

[Der_Echte]

There is a backup place... an ex-military post gym fieldhouse where a player invested $1000 usd of hiz own cah to stash two tables there to be available when Church TT is not happening or players get the itch on days not Mon or Fri...

This same nice player is making an effort to purchase another two tables... everyone who plays there should contribute $100 USD to this effort... I did, so did brother of the Pastor I train, so did another guy I train (who contributed many times that)...

So in this regard, I would hope enough of the freeloaders get off their azz, take a load of their mind, and contribute proportionately and willingly to make TT available in quantity and quality on demand during business hours..

 

[Der_Echte]

I have very often chided who is the majority of amateur TT players in my area for their strong and wrong adherence to playing TT for the absolute minimum to zero amount of money expended.

Such players wear the same white $2 undershirt they bought in 2007, and their FH ruber might still be from that year or only replaced 1-2 times.

When we actually had a real TT gym club with 20 plus tables and great space/light... these were the type to COMPLAIN LOUDLY about having to pay a DISCOUNTED $40 USD a month to play there every day for 10 hours a day every damned day.

Such players want to improve, but they would NEVER spend any funds on doing so, maybe only on a new equipment purchase and that reluctantly. paying a coach to improve footwork or tactics is far from their minds... only how to get a TT fix for free or next to it.

 

[Der_Echte]

Does it sound like my cappucino had old, bitter beans in it?

Nope, just keeping it 100 and real.

 

[dingyibvs]

Why don't the organizers just start charging money? Don't pay? Don't come. The Concord/PH club is damn full every night, and it's $5 a session if you pay $50 annual fee.

 

[Der_Echte]

Why don't the organizers just start charging money? Don't pay? Don't come. The Concord/PH club is damn full every night, and it's $5 a session if you pay $50 annual fee.

It is a Church and it is not the way to MMA style Goon Squad rear naked choke your azz out and demand the cash.

Still, people should feel compelled to contribute a proportional amount to fund things. Often, too many of the same people over donate to make this up. I buy things periodically and get reimbursed 1/2 my cost, there must also be a donation component for me too, which there is.

From 2022 to 2023, i bought a serve/ball collection net, 4 ball pickers, 4 ball caddy carriers, 4 new net sets with posts, and prolly 20 boxes of traing balls we also use as match balls.

That sounds like a lot, and it is, but it really isn't a lot. I was contributing maybe 1/2 of $900 USD over those two years... that is $450 and there are 24 months and 104 weeks... the math shows roughly $4 and pocket change a week is what I contributed...

I did a large chunk of the contributing by getting only 1/2 of what I paid and my contribution of $4-5 USD per week average would be a reasonable contribution in anyone's book. There is free pizza delivered by a Russian pizza business and everyone eats that, and even the cheapos sometimes drop money in the net box for the tip, at least some of them get that on that issue...

... but of course you have the cheapy types who would so hate on any expenditure... I bet they used $4 of gas to get there and back home and were not writing their congressperson.

If we were not doing this at a Church and as a private venture somewhere, @dingyibvs you are damn skippy right we would be clear and upfront about total costs and expenditures and clearly communicate a required contribution or go see the Goon Squad gauntlet line and get the heck outta town.

 

[Der_Echte]

Turns out for the time being we are gunna play Mondays only at 1st Slavic. Better than zero and in older days it was just Monday anyway.

On hte other side of the coins, one of the Pastors play and if he is with his brother and not forced to leave the building at a reasonable time, that Pastor and hiz brother (who has the best raw footwork in the city) would play until 2AM...

YES, I have seen it and been there until 2 AM a few times in the past watching them go at it without end when the one who closes the gate did not point a shotgun at the players and hint that they leave now.

 

[Der_Echte]

The last few years said Pastor has been very diligent to shut it all down and get everyone to put stuff up and leave at a reasonable time like 10 or 10:30 PM.

 

[dingyibvs]

It is a Church and it is not the way to MMA style Goon Squad rear naked choke your azz out and demand the cash.

Still, people should feel compelled to contribute a proportional amount to fund things. Often, too many of the same people over donate to make this up. I buy things periodically and get reimbursed 1/2 my cost, there must also be a donation component for me too, which there is.

From 2022 to 2023, i bought a serve/ball collection net, 4 ball pickers, 4 ball caddy carriers, 4 new net sets with posts, and prolly 20 boxes of traing balls we also use as match balls.

That sounds like a lot, and it is, but it really isn't a lot. I was contributing maybe 1/2 of $900 USD over those two years... that is $450 and there are 24 months and 104 weeks... the math shows roughly $4 and pocket change a week is what I contributed...

I did a large chunk of the contributing by getting only 1/2 of what I paid and my contribution of $4-5 USD per week average would be a reasonable contribution in anyone's book. There is free pizza delivered by a Russian pizza business and everyone eats that, and even the cheapos sometimes drop money in the net box for the tip, at least some of them get that on that issue...

... but of course you have the cheapy types who would so hate on any expenditure... I bet they used $4 of gas to get there and back home and were not writing their congressperson.

If we were not doing this at a Church and as a private venture somewhere, @dingyibvs you are damn skippy right we would be clear and upfront about total costs and expenditures and clearly communicate a required contribution or go see the Goon Squad gauntlet line and get the heck outta town.

Hmm, do you guys need corrugated paper as dividers? I have like 200 feet of 4 foot corrugated paper I originally thought I'd use in my garage. It's been over a year and it's still in it's original box. My local club doesn't need it either, so it's just taking up space in my house. I'd love to donate it to help the local TT scene.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hmm, do you guys need corrugated paper as dividers? I have like 200 feet of 4 foot corrugated paper I originally thought I'd use in my garage. It's been over a year and it's still in it's original box. My local club doesn't need it either, so it's just taking up space in my house. I'd love to donate it to help the local TT scene.

I would take some as offered, maybe the Tuesday at Citrus heights is always 10 ft short of that stuff. maybe use it at Auburn league. Those two places could use it. Auburn's is real old and JZ Citrus Hts is kinda short.

The way the Russian Church multipurpose room is built, one can only line up 4 tables in a row and walls are 10-12 ft behind tables, couldn't use it in that room.

TT is a small world and those who learn as adults are usually very humble and nice people.

Sometime soon on a weekend I will be in ur area and hopefully drive you to Pleasanton or TTA or somewhere and we get a proper hit and BH to BH battle.