Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Cornel]

OSPH, I just got to agree with what people say - you are so kind and responsive to everyone here, I am very glad this forum has such a member as you!

 

[Liten]

He's like the traditional japanese carpenter.. does everything with nature, not against..

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I don't want to keep typing a novel on the error in the things you've said. Carl answered my question already, you're trying to complicate things with incorrect statements.

LOL. Sage advice.


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[NextLevel]

I am aware of the benefits recording a match has. But the situation is that people here usually don't like to be recorded., Nevertheless, if my blind self analysis won't be efficient I will do it someday.

First of all let's say that I don't really know how close I really am to him. I've taken my first set quite some time ago, I've had matches lost in the decider, I've had match balls, but still, never a win. He loses to the serve-man most of the times and also the other two players I've played on Friday also cause him quite some trouble, managing to win sometimes.

I am going to analyze what is obvious for now. First of all, he relies on his heavy backspin serves and heavy pushes. Both are usually long but if I am not in the ideal position and don't use my whole body to lift that backspin it will end in the net. Because this part of the game is slower, my feet just are not in mood to work as they do versus an all-out attack player. So here is the first target - getting into position faster(this also includes reading faster where the pushes will land) and getting past the pushing/chopping game. Secondly, his FH loop isn't too fast but so spinny that I don't manage to keep it on the table most of the times. This also happens because these loops have good placement. So, having the ability to block them will be a great plus. Should definitely try to counterhit them a few times, but I have doubts this is going to bring some result. Again, my feet should be ready to work. There are also some other things to figure out against him but these are the two major ones, that I believe eliminating should make me a lot more comfortable to play against this player. So, not using my full abilities at 100% is my main problem atm.

The analysis is thoughtful. The thing though is that you have to be sure your technique is right. Sometimes, bad technique places too much pressure on your game. I have seen many people say this or that is a problem but when I fixed their technique, the problem miraculously went away at their level and only showed up under pressure vs better players.

 

[Boogar]

So today i was playing outdoors. I feel like i am finally starting to understand how counter loops work.
One little dilemma I have is that while trying to get a more horizontal stroke, which needs a more closed racket angle and a higher starting position of the bat, my ending position gets lower too.

According to the textbook the ending position of topspin strokes should be the same no matter the spin or height of the ball, only the starting position changes.

If try to do that I often hit the ball too flat and i can't "grip" the ball.

I think this is a result of me standing to straight up and not leaning forward. for the first two or three balls i mostly manage to stay down and forward. However in the process of playing i forget about. Which leads to another problem, after one or two good topspin's i start to block because I'm upright and can't attack again.

So now my question: Do you guys know any exercise to stay down?

 

[Archosaurus]

So today i was playing outdoors. I feel like i am finally starting to understand how counter loops work.
One little dilemma I have is that while trying to get a more horizontal stroke, which needs a more closed racket angle and a higher starting position of the bat, my ending position gets lower too.

According to the textbook the ending position of topspin strokes should be the same no matter the spin or height of the ball, only the starting position changes.

If try to do that I often hit the ball too flat and i can't "grip" the ball.

I think this is a result of me standing to straight up and not leaning forward. for the first two or three balls i mostly manage to stay down and forward. However in the process of playing i forget about. Which leads to another problem, after one or two good topspin's i start to block because I'm upright and can't attack again.

So now my question: Do you guys know any exercise to stay down?

I've found that when most people, myself included, start to go higher, they also go more backwards onto their heels.

I feel it's a bit difficult and not natural to go very high when on your soles, so keep your weight on your toes, so to say.

 

[Boogar]

I've found that when most people, myself included, start to go higher, they also go more backwards onto their heels.

I feel it's a bit difficult and not natural to go very high when on your soles, so keep your weight on your toes, so to say.

Jea you are right.
I should rephrase my question then: How to stay down while being on your toes.

At the trainer seminar they told they once had a player put little stones under his heels. Ofc they meant it as a joke, but he continued to do so and it worked for him! And that player was already over 2200 without staying on his toes. :O

 

[ttmonster]

Yup and it may sound obvious but one thing to note is TT is one game where you really don't know how good the other guy is unless you win a match. I have heard many times over the theory that if I can win a game , I can win a match , not to discourage you or anything , but while that is a great self motivational tool but not really the reality ....

The analysis is thoughtful. The thing though is that you have to be sure your technique is right. Sometimes, bad technique places too much pressure on your game. I have seen many people say this or that is a problem but when I fixed their technique, the problem miraculously went away at their level and only showed up under pressure vs better players.

 

[NextLevel]

Yup and it may sound obvious but one thing to note is TT is one game where you really don't know how good the other guy is unless you win a match. I have heard many times over the theory that if I can win a game , I can win a match , not to discourage you or anything , but while that is a great self motivational tool but not really the reality ....

There is a point to it but it of course depends on how well you pushed your opponent and whether you found a stable strategy you can do well with if you execute it more consistently.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Jea you are right.
I should rephrase my question then: How to stay down while being on your toes.

At the trainer seminar they told they once had a player put little stones under his heels. Ofc they meant it as a joke, but he continued to do so and it worked for him! And that player was already over 2200 without staying on his toes. :O

Boogar, it sounds a bit to me like practicing shadow drills and working on your reset will actually help. If you reset, you get back into a ready position which should take care of what you are asking about since standing up is not a ready position.

As far as counterlooping, the touch of it should come with practice in some scenarios where it comes up.


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[NextLevel]

What is wrong with this pendulum serve? How do I fix it?

 

[ttmonster]

My initial impression is that if you don't prefer to rotate the waste , its going to be tough to contact it so close to the body consistently, may be move the contact point a little outside for consistency ? If I get time I will try to compare with Brett's action since obviously that is the one you are trying to emulate ...

different strokes for different folks, but when I have trouble with my serve the heavy short ones , my normal reaction is to go for a higher toss , a little higher contact with softer hands ... again that works for me ... not entirely sure if thats what you are looking for , I tend to feel that when I go for heavy short serves I tend to contact too low and push too much and it becomes difficult to keep it short ....

@NL : on a different note, special thanks to you for the long pips video you posted recently , I got a long pips guy yesterday in the league and put the fear in him with heavy long under spin / no spin serve variation and then when he fell apart mentally things became a lot easier ... sh guy with long on the bh and regular on the forehand , slightly different proposition but the gist of it worked ... I could then work on his other weaknesses ... he started fearing my loop and serve from then on and it helped ... lost for the first set but came back to win 3-1 , 12-10 on the fourth.

 

[Der_Echte]

What is wrong with this pendulum serve? How do I fix it?

NL, you are the one who termed my serve style as HSTD - High Toss Servey Dude (even though i toss the ball only a little over top of my head.

So you know I would say toss the ball higher. it looks in the vid (until later) that there is not enough time to time the swing, looks like a bit late impact.

Personally, I like the ball to be right near the endline on the toss and impact. it is easier to consistently impact the ball. The endline makes it a good mental reference point. Since there is less distance to travel, the fast/deep serves where first bounce is on endline is much easier to do when ball is impacted near the endline. Accordingly, I like to be more forward positioned towards the endline.

The largest observation I see is there is too much wrist and too little lower arm. It is very difficult to time the impact of the ball with that much wrist. I like using some upper arm, then slow it down, let the lower arm move and accelerate it, then at the end let the wrist go through the ball. Some people can do it, so I won't totally discount that approach, but with a short toss, darned difficult.

For a short underspin serve, I like impacting the ball just below chest level. For NL, one tall TT warrior, this would be a bit above hiz belly button.

 

[Der_Echte]

On another front, the next day after fighting hard and losing nearly every match, i performed much better in league, went 6-2 lost a third match by means of rock paper scissors as one player had to leave and wanted a result one way or another without playing. A very elite amature player geared his game down (maybe so he could practice vs my attacks) and I got by 3-2. If this player was serious, I would lose 0-3 averaging 5 points. Lost a game at double deuce in 5th game, had someone shout right when I hit a ball, lots of stuff like that in that TT hall, I really gotta get better focused. The dude I lost to we always to to the wire one way or another.

 

[Archosaurus]

What is wrong with this pendulum serve? How do I fix it?

You don't really involved your forearm too much, and there's little to no body weight being put into the shot.

Now, if those are genuine mistakes, I'm not qualified to touch on. I don't know whether or whether not your serve would get better from changing your serve that much; there's more to it than just a lot of spin, which you already generate.

I say this because of your height, mainly. Your contact point looks low, but it's actually pretty close to ideal I would think. I'm most likely nearly a good head shorter than you are, and I contact near my lower chest/upper abdominals.

Why do you ask this? Do you feel your serve is lacking and you need to change it, for one?

 

[ttmonster]

In the same boat Der , was playing the league on saturday , played against two teams .
The first one we should have won but my doubles partner was completely out of it , could not focus when we needed too. Her normal reaction is to muscle the ball whenever we have more consistent players on the other end , tried to convince her to spin but too not a good effect , hence two 1700 - 1800 loopers lost it to two one winged penhold blockers around the same level, it was pretty disheartening ...

then played two singles in the next match . first match was against the long pip guy which I described earlier. The second match was against a 2100 guy on the worst table in the club. its basically 10 feet from the only entrance which has a curtain that keeps swinging in the wind. Players around us somehow don't seem to care whether they walk into us when we are in the middle of a rally or stop right next to the table for a social chat. Anyways , the guy had a good serve and a very good forehand. Saw him beat down our highest rated players in the previous match and I tried to be over agressive and lost the first two sets too easily.
The third set , knuckled down and took him to 9-9 and then lost 11-9 . Could have done better ...

On another front, the next day after fighting hard and losing nearly every match, i performed much better in league, went 6-2 lost a third match by means of rock paper scissors as one player had to leave and wanted a result one way or another without playing. A very elite amature player geared his game down (maybe so he could practice vs my attacks) and I got by 3-2. If this player was serious, I would lose 0-3 averaging 5 points. Lost a game at double deuce in 5th game, had someone shout right when I hit a ball, lots of stuff like that in that TT hall, I really gotta get better focused. The dude I lost to we always to to the wire one way or another.

 

[Der_Echte]

Archo,

NL is trying to get people to think fundamentals and get involved.

His serving level is already quite advanced compared to the US East coast 1900+ crowd. (and he has a few Badd-Ass servers helping him out)

 

[JeffM]

First day at unigames 2016:
As expected, nearly all the teams were super strong, and the team from UNSW just annihilated every one and everything...

Our team lost both of our match ups today.
I played 6 singles for my team today. Lost all 6. The level of the players were too strong. There was one player that I might have had the chance of winning, but still lost 2 sets at 11-9, and then lost the third.
I managed to capture everything on camera, and even though I lost, I just try my best and play the best I could. Made some amazing shots.

 

[Xylit]

@NL:
The serves don't look too bad, especially the ones in the last minute look pretty decent. You could try to hit the ball lower and with less contact to generate more spin. It sounds like you hit the balls quite hard. Moreover, when you said "backspin" this looked more like back-sidespin-serves instead of pure backspin (hard to tell without seeing the ball though). If you want that you could try to hold your racket more parallel to the table. And I am not sure about that but from this perspective it looked like sometimes your own body is in your way // you hit the ball too close to your body.

Anyway, I believe that within that series there were some very good serves. There is not only one technique for serving great. In the end the ball's trajectory, spin and placement matter more than technique.

 

[NextLevel]

For people who want to know the answer:

http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28641&p=325072#p325072

For people who don't want to but want to guess, keep posting.