Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[ttmonster]

so I played a singles match yesterday against my regular partner after a 9 day break that was broken by Der_echte's coffee adventure ... I lost 3-0 but I played better than I thought I would...

the amazing things this time coming back is that my timing in forehand is off , my backhand still holds good ... so all in all I have become a backhand dominant player ... quite a transition ...

we played 3 doubles and we lost all of them , even though we put on a good fight in the 2nd match and lost it 14-12 in the fifth ....

the things I felt was, one I am not reading serves as well , it must be the time off , especially the depth , I am missing out on looping long serves ...

second was on my forehand I am not able to time the ball when I need to drive it hard , I am able to loop or spin it up ... hurricanes put such a premium on the timing and the whip ... but its good in a way that I can't fake it with a tenergy with slow , spinny loops , like I used to


the heavy underspin serve timing seems to have gone ... need work on these three things .. amazingly , did not make too many mistakes on my reverse pendulum ...

have been itching to get back to taking formal coaching ... but its just too much money for too little in the bay area .... wish I get lucky and find a consistent and good drilling partner ...

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Then I use the equipment and realize that even videos deceive me and mess with my memory lololol...

Virus alert ! NextLevel is the 2nd reported case of lololol bug infection , somebody please quarantine OSPH !

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!

First the "LOLOLOL", next the "LOL at me", then the oldschool one-sided PH style!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Was chatting last night with 42andbackpains and a mutual friend that is part of our old TT crew ... convo was about one of the superhero TV shows ... i'm a comics geek at heart ... i used to watch the superhero tv shows, but got busy and missed them cos I went to TT 3x a week .... the mutual friend with the zinger with words to the effect of: "The way you have been playing, you may as well watch TV!"

OUCHY!

LOL

Tomorrow, intend to go to club, may or may not go back on Thurs... if i do, it may be for 60-90 mins only.

Tomorrow night, heeding my own advice to Takkyu_wa_inochi:

I'm just going to flow, no thinking, no conscious short serve motion, no conscious short stroke loop, no conscious work on whip mechanics ... play just to play ... just feel and flow ... my oldschool "oldschool" form will probably surface with the long stroke serve motion, and longstroke loop. Maybe some corkscrew serves will come out ... who knows... what i do know, as always, i'll have fun hitting and playing.

May all the net and edge balls go your way CCers!

Will see if i can get any of my play on video for you all to LOLOL me ... will see if i can play with the LP dude again, very challenging partner for me.

 

[ttmonster]

Thats not going to happen .... atleast to me , I have taken strong antidotes for that one because my regular doubles partber is one sided JP and we lose a lot of matches simply because I have a backhand if it comes back he cannot get it

then the oldschool one-sided PH style!

 

[Der_Echte]

Monster, you haven't lost your underspin potential, you should remember I put your fist serve into the net and I knew it was underspin.

I would say that you were just trying too hard and didn't have a loose grip or loose arm and shoulder on the serve.

 

[ttmonster]

That must be it Der , thanks for the tips , I will try to loosen my grip tomorrow and see what happens ...

Monster, you haven't lost your underspin potential, you should remember I put your fist serve into the net and I knew it was underspin.

I would say that you were just trying too hard and didn't have a loose grip or loose arm and shoulder on the serve.

 

[Boogar]

Things are starting to come together. I spent the last weeks training my backhand loop with regular und irregular training. Also in combination with footwork and forehandtopspin.

Last Saturday we had our yearly inter-club Championships. I managed to get the round of 16, even tho i wasn't lucky with the draw. I am quiet content with that. Also i managed to take one game away from one of our Players from the first team.

Yesterday I played a match with a guy I haven't played with for a while. He used to beat me all the time, but not this time! Due to the hours i put into the backhand i could finally loop from both sides in a match, what a great feeling!!

I won in the fifth but the games i won he got like 4 points each. I should have recorded the match
AN older player i played with after told me I should go an play in the second league next league and i am in the 4. league atm. Unfortunately we only have a first league team and then no team in the 2. or 3. league who has openings So i have to play another year in the 4. league. But well at least we are putting together a team that can and will get the promotion!

 

[Michal_Z]

Had a chance to play with the best player I know in person, he gave me one hour of his life

Guys, its just.. like he cannot miss!
And he is only around WR 280 or so!
But when he spins, the ball passes me so freakin fast!
And the serve deception!
I only can guess what the hell is in it
And his technique is just so clean and beautiful..
Well, glad to had a time with him, I got a lesson, he explained me a lot of stuff, what should I train and try to do differently..
I hope it brings me some progress

This Saturday we are playing match to stay in our league.
We curently play in the 4th legaue, so to stay in there and not to drop, we will have to play 2nd best team from 5th and beat them.
So we hope for best luck to win!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I won in the fifth but the games i won he got like 4 points each. I should have recorded the match

Boogar gonna boogar!

[Begin NL voice]

If you didn't record it, it didn't happen.

[/voice]

--------

Seriously congratulations all around Boogar!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Had a chance to play with the best player I know in person, he gave me one hour of his life

That is awesome you had the opportunity to play him and you got some advice!!

We curently play in the 4th legaue, so to stay in there and not to drop, we will have to play 2nd best team from 5th and beat them.

Ah, don't think of the pressure, don't think of the outcome, think only of winning one point and then the next point. Have fun and good luck to you and your team!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Monster, you haven't lost your underspin potential, you should remember I put your fist serve into the net and I knew it was underspin.

I would say that you were just trying too hard and didn't have a loose grip or loose arm and shoulder on the serve.

That must be it Der , thanks for the tips , I will try to loosen my grip tomorrow and see what happens ...

Yes, yes, heed Der's advice!!!

*gets ready to ask again for 2 games, 9 points in the 3rd and the serve from ttmonster*

 

[suds79]

What do you guys think? Help me beat my club mates. Point out any potential weaknesses in their game.

Piotr & Ben.

Piotr is a pure defender (inverted & LPs) who is slowly learning to attack. He's usatt 1901 after playing 25 matches at his first tournament. It might not look impressive, but he forces players to beat him with consistency. I can beat Piotr but he wins most of the time. I'd say 80%. I'm actually not all that concerned with Piotr because of our matchup, he recent went to a serve that absolutely won the match for him (3-2) but i have a plan for that having some time to think on it.

Ben is a duel inverted attacker. My win % vs him is lower. I've beaten him like once in the last two years.

Tell me if you guys were playing these two, what tactics would you employ or what do you see that's weak that you'd go after?

My thoughts:
Interesting that Piotr does this backhand inverted backspin serve to Ben's backhand 90% of the time. Ben largely just pushes this. I think this is a plus since Ben IMO is pretty good at FH looping any long serve. So if you can get him to start off with a push? I'd take that.

My overall impression or usual gameplay vs Ben is to stay away from his FH. Expect a relatively consistent BH but one that's not super powerful. He seems to either serve backspin or fast topspin only.

Interested to hear your guy's thoughts.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@suds79

Hi. my impressions: both players are not very consistent so if you can be more consistent than them and don't make easy mistakes it could be enough. if you tighten serve and receive as well, (as against any opponent) you can get a lot of easy points as well.

That being said, the guy with glasses who was defending (with LP ?), looked more consistent than the other guy, especially with his BH on long balls. The attacking guy could not attack effectively any BH chopped ball. On the other hand he was making a lot of mistakes with his FH block. So its simple: serve long with no spin or backspin on his BH and attack on his wide FH or middle. from time to time serve short to his FH. Don't take too much risks. He doesn't seem to be very agressive, don't hesitate to go in long rallies if the 1st attack doesn't make the point. When receiving don't try to take too much risks, just put a little bit of topspin and think more about placement.

The guy attacking with the yellow shirt, is a bit crazy and makes a lot of mistakes but if he lands his attacks it might cause you some problems. So you'd be better off serving short to him, BH or FH. He doesn't seem to be good against backspin so either attack before him or push long aggressively.

edit: the attacker's footwork is not great. If you move him around, he'll make a lot of errors.

 

[suds79]

@Takkyu

Good advice throughout. Your first paragraph from an overall approach kinda echos what I've been saying recently where I believe that largely anybody under USATT 2000, the more consistent player wins. So it's something I'm ever trying to work on.

As far as more specific tactics vs them, I appreciate that insight also.

 

[Xylit]

@suds79 (I have watched the first set):

The attacker in black-yellow shirt is a forehand orientated topspin player. His serves are all long. I'd attack his serves right away, not with a lot of speed but rather save and spinny. I'd serve short in the middle of the table, he can't attack that. Generally, I'd push everything short in the middle-to-backhand-side with some balls deep and long in his forehand. He does not move a lot and he is only "good" with his topspins if he does not have to move his feet. If he manages to play a topspin stay close to the table and try to block that. I don't think he is a beast at playing two or three topspins in a row. All together he makes a lot of unforced errors. If you keep your own errors to a minimum and don't offer him easy balls to loop you should have a chance.

 

[NextLevel]

@Takkyu

Good advice throughout. Your first paragraph from an overall approach kinda echos what I've been saying recently where I believe that largely anybody under USATT 2000, the more consistent player wins. So it's something I'm ever trying to work on.

As far as more specific tactics vs them, I appreciate that insight also.

You would likely have to use a match that you play to ask for that. The problem is that you are asking for insights using players who play nothing like you. Maybe the fact that the guy has pips on his backhand is one thing but not much.

So how would I play them? I would serve them heavy backspin and loop the return if long or push it long if short and try to counter or open on the next return. If they push the backspin well, I switch to no-spin or light backspin to see if they catch the variation. If they push short, I serve more deceptive topspin short to see if they catch it. If their backhand returns are getting better, I serve to the short forehand with both pendulum and backhand serves and some backspin no spin to keep them stretched. I try serving into their bodies to see if they move away from the ball well. If they return a particular serve/spin badly, they will see that serve and its variant about 60-80% of the time when I am under pressure. When the match is close, I do a punch serve into the backhand as my surprise fast serve.

If the player handles my fast loops well, I raise the spin level and slow the game down. If the player handles the slow loops well, I try to move them and transition them left and right with fast hits and blocks.

I do this against pretty much every one. But it tells you nothing about how to play them. I am also a spin - you are a pips player. It's quite possible that I can end the point against Ben with one loop, while you may have to hit more than one shot. None of the above are special things - you could have a national level coach tell you to do them if you play a certain way but he is relying on your quality of shot to get you to the end.


If you serve backspin into Ben's backhand, he might pivot and use his forehand because he doesn't expect you to have the quality of defense to keep him honest. If I do it, he might pivot the first time, then after seeing that I can handle it, push the next time. I make these points so that you generally note broad strategic plays while realizing that rating is to a huge degree about the quality of ball you can produce and the quality of ball you can control.

The key thing with Ben is that in this particular match, he is relying on the pace of the ball to get in his topspin. The reason he is pushing Piotr's serve is because it is riskier for him to attack it hard. Doesn't trust his backhand loop either to produce a return he can play behind. But he also realizes that all Piotr will do is push his serve back or bump it back. The speed of Piotr's game allows Ben to take big shots and Piotr lacks the quality of shot to control Ben's power. Hence Ben is repeatedly loading up the ball. If Piotr could suddenly control Ben's topspin and bring it back with the pips, the score would change drastically, as Ben cannot consistently handle his spin. Piotr would have to play much faster to stop Ben from loading up the ball or put the balls in places where Ben would have to move.

So there are many ways to beat these players. A good coach once told me that having good tactics can hold your game severely. And by this he meant that you should understand the elements of ball quality and good placement and just play all players that way - stop serving bad long serves, stop putting the ball habitually into strike zones, stop letting people return all your balls while hardly moving etc. Relying on someone's weakness to beat them won't grow your overall game. Developing plays that create all people problems based on ball quality, consistency and placement will.

There might be certain plays you may be potentially under utilizing when you play Ben. But the fact that you are losing to him so often makes it likely that you simply cannot match him in terms of consistency, placement and ball quality. IF you think this not the case and that you can match him with ball quality, then tactics are easier to address.

 

[NextLevel]

My overall impression or usual gameplay vs Ben is to stay away from his FH. Expect a relatively consistent BH but one that's not super powerful. He seems to either serve backspin or fast topspin only.

Interested to hear your guy's thoughts.

This is sometimes true, but is often enough wrong. You only want to stay away from someone's weapon when you don't know how to defuse it. Sometimes, defusing someone's weapon is about going to it, so that they can give you a ball you send to their weakness with pace or spin that kills then. For example, if you wanted to reduce my backhand quality when I was a backhand player, you didn't want to put the ball all the time to my forehand as I could play backhands from my forehand side. You wanted to draw me out of the backhand corner, and then go back to my backhand.

For Ben, this might be that you want to play serves to his short forehand and then go to his wide backhand. Or you might serve to his wide backhand and then bump the return to his forehand side. OR you might want to block all balls from his forehand into his backhand. The point at 3:26 illustrates this perfectly. Point at 4:30 in a different way. But these are things you can do to anyone once you can control their quality of ball. But when Piotr let's Ben sit in one spot and play a ball placed right in his sweet spot, Ben clocks good shots. This is not the way to play anyone, and it will get you consistently killed as the opponents gets better.

 

[42andbackpains]

Went to my club yesterday to get some light exercise in. I have a blood test in 10 days and doing the last minute thing. Walked and jogged for about half a hour. Did another half hour of serve practice and started to get a light sweat. Slowly but surely i am starting to understand the underspin serve, my forearm is too loose and too used to my regular sidespin pendulum motion. Once i stabilize the forearm a little and correct the angle of the forearm, the underspin comes out much easier. My reverse pendulum is still a hit or miss thing. Need more wrist whip and less arm whip.

The table next to me was a little girl taking her daily lesson from one of her coaches. Yes, i said daily lesson and almost for a year now. Recently she has improved in her rythm and is coming along with her basic strokes. Her parents are investing a lot into her. I decided to challenge the 4.5 feet of bubbly happiness. I crushed her fives games straight. Well her rating is 750 and mine is about 1500...lol....Yes i was bullying her but it was all in fun and she was laughing through out the games. Now i should go back to play her again and give her 6 or 7 points, then maybe she has a chance then. Sometimes its therapeutic just play to have fun. Maybe i will go again today...

 

[ttmonster]

Its always refreshing to come across these kids who are enjoying their game and not crying afterwards .. go play her more and have fun ... she will pass you by in a year anyways ... so enjoy while you can

Went to my club yesterday to get some light exercise in. I have a blood test in 10 days and doing the last minute thing. Walked and jogged for about half a hour. Did another half hour of serve practice and started to get a light sweat. Slowly but surely i am starting to understand the underspin serve, my forearm is too loose and too used to my regular sidespin pendulum motion. Once i stabilize the forearm a little and correct the angle of the forearm, the underspin comes out much easier. My reverse pendulum is still a hit or miss thing. Need more wrist whip and less arm whip.

The table next to me was a little girl taking her daily lesson from one of her coaches. Yes, i said daily lesson and almost for a year now. Recently she has improved in her rythm and is coming along with her basic strokes. Her parents are investing a lot into her. I decided to challenge the 4.5 feet of bubbly happiness. I crushed her fives games straight. Well her rating is 750 and mine is about 1500...lol....Yes i was bullying her but it was all in fun and she was laughing through out the games. Now i should go back to play her again and give her 6 or 7 points, then maybe she has a chance then. Sometimes its therapeutic just play to have fun. Maybe i will go again today...

 

[ttmonster]

I think I will have Der_echte decide on the beer handicap .. 2 games = 2 pitchers , is it Der ? atleast it will help me loosen my forearm

Yes, yes, heed Der's advice!!!

*gets ready to ask again for 2 games, 9 points in the 3rd and the serve from ttmonster*