Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[blahness]

He is still pronating when he FH loops for sure - ive seen dozens of slowmo videos. With FH loops there is overwhelming amount of power available to cancel out any backspin anyway, I'm not too concerned about that.

It's the short balls that the shakehand FH receive is very weak at. Maybe a reverse mindset of using supination to be able to lift and flick heavy backspin could be a viable attacking shot.

I am never comfortable flicking heavy backspin to the short FH unlike on the BH (due to chiquita), this serve is the only serve that pretty much shuts down any possibility of attack.

Lmao this shot (supination style FH flick) absolutely doesn't work at all, I did some tries. It cannot produce any topspin at all haha.... I guess it's back to the topspin flick or the dead flick or the sideswipe.

 

[blahness]

Damn, my practice partner is starting to become a god at block/counter now and it's becoming increasingly difficult to attack balls past him even when Im looping all sorts of ridiculous balls. He does all sorts of ridiculous balls (sidespin chopblocks in both directions, Ma Lin style off the bounce counterloops) and placements even off my strongest opening loops and whenever i let up on attacking his FH loopkill is just killing me or he starts doing his Ma Lin wannabe stuff and makes me look bad. And i was helping him train his spin capabilities which made his FH even more insane than it was.

The funny thing is that I actually won a best of 5 by not chiquitaing and simply sideswiping the ball to force him to pivot to attack which I simply redirected back to the corners to win. But he adjusted later on by varying his attack placements and spin and placed way too much pressure on my defence. The games are always close but I guess I'm still lacking topspin rallying capabilities. I don't think I can reliably beat him unless I become a two wing topspin machine of my own which will take some long, long hours of training. Even if I do it, he really has the ability to drag you into the mud by playing all these extreme balls that shouldn't have that high success rates but he does somehow land them all the time.

 

[OvrChkn]

I almost never check in so hard to say. Stuff like that I prefer carrying on if I needed to choose.

Everything was smooth on the check in.

Had a chance to get some play time in during my vacation and got great advice on what I'm doing in a match.

 

[dingyibvs]

Damn, my practice partner is starting to become a god at block/counter now and it's becoming increasingly difficult to attack balls past him even when Im looping all sorts of ridiculous balls. He does all sorts of ridiculous balls (sidespin chopblocks in both directions, Ma Lin style off the bounce counterloops) and placements even off my strongest opening loops and whenever i let up on attacking his FH loopkill is just killing me or he starts doing his Ma Lin wannabe stuff and makes me look bad. And i was helping him train his spin capabilities which made his FH even more insane than it was.

The funny thing is that I actually won a best of 5 by not chiquitaing and simply sideswiping the ball to force him to pivot to attack which I simply redirected back to the corners to win. But he adjusted later on by varying his attack placements and spin and placed way too much pressure on my defence. The games are always close but I guess I'm still lacking topspin rallying capabilities. I don't think I can reliably beat him unless I become a two wing topspin machine of my own which will take some long, long hours of training. Even if I do it, he really has the ability to drag you into the mud by playing all these extreme balls that shouldn't have that high success rates but he does somehow land them all the time.

My go-to move against good blockers is to just blast it past them. I may not be able to out-consistency them with regular loops, so I just put my full power behind a very forward going shot, trying to end it in one shot. When I do regular loops, I place an emphasis on consistency, just trying to get good spin, limiting their counter options until I can get one of those full power loops in.

I went to the Pleasanton club on Friday, played against a guy I've never beaten before. He plays SP on the BH side. He basically plays full table BH blocks with his SPs unless he gets an opportunity ball to attack. His blocked balls really dies on you so it's not easy to attack with regular loops. I used to always lose to him because he'd block to my BH side and I can only block it back and then he'd seize the initiative. Well, I'm able to continue the attack on the BH side now, sometimes even hitting winners or at least enough to allow me to step around and hit a winner with my FH. I ended up beating him 3-0, and it wasn't even that close!

BH opening loop is still a work in progress, I can open now but I want to be able to kill anything that's not half-long like on the FH side. BH attacks have taken a huge step forward, I'm finally putting it all together and it's taken my game a big level up judging by my recent string of 3-0 victories against guys who were clearly a level above me just weeks ago. I'm gonna keep the momentum going, continue to work on my BH quality (spin, speed, and placement) and consistency the next few weeks, especially against backspins.

 

[blahness]

My go-to move against good blockers is to just blast it past them. I may not be able to out-consistency them with regular loops, so I just put my full power behind a very forward going shot, trying to end it in one shot. When I do regular loops, I place an emphasis on consistency, just trying to get good spin, limiting their counter options until I can get one of those full power loops in.

I went to the Pleasanton club on Friday, played against a guy I've never beaten before. He plays SP on the BH side. He basically plays full table BH blocks with his SPs unless he gets an opportunity ball to attack. His blocked balls really dies on you so it's not easy to attack with regular loops. I used to always lose to him because he'd block to my BH side and I can only block it back and then he'd seize the initiative. Well, I'm able to continue the attack on the BH side now, sometimes even hitting winners or at least enough to allow me to step around and hit a winner with my FH. I ended up beating him 3-0, and it wasn't even that close!

BH opening loop is still a work in progress, I can open now but I want to be able to kill anything that's not half-long like on the FH side. BH attacks have taken a huge step forward, I'm finally putting it all together and it's taken my game a big level up judging by my recent string of 3-0 victories against guys who were clearly a level above me just weeks ago. I'm gonna keep the momentum going, continue to work on my BH quality (spin, speed, and placement) and consistency the next few weeks, especially against backspins.

The good blockers I play with don't give me nice balls to loopkill it's always some weird shit which I need to add a lot of safety/spin to even land the shot. I just need to train to become an actual consistent topspin machine.

Yes I too had a huge leap in level too once I figured out my BH loop structure and it all started to come together. Tbh I think BH loopkill is a bit ambitious, you'll get much better bang for your buck if you can vary between heavy topspin and weakish topspin with very similar movements. The problem with BH loopkill is not that it's not doable but you need a really accurate read of the ball to get your landing percentages very high, and if it's blocked back you're usually toast. Imo BH loopkill should be reserved to opportunity balls where you can maintain good percentages even when hitting quite hard.

Btw you should work on the chiquita too, if you have that shot your lvl will go to the next level too (at least for me) - because even short serves aren't safe from attack anymore.

 

[dingyibvs]

The good blockers I play with don't give me nice balls to loopkill it's always some weird shit which I need to add a lot of safety/spin to even land the shot. I just need to train to become an actual consistent topspin machine.

Yes I too had a huge leap in level too once I figured out my BH loop structure and it all started to come together. Tbh I think BH loopkill is a bit ambitious, you'll get much better bang for your buck if you can vary between heavy topspin and weakish topspin with very similar movements. The problem with BH loopkill is not that it's not doable but you need a really accurate read of the ball to get your landing percentages very high, and if it's blocked back you're usually toast. Imo BH loopkill should be reserved to opportunity balls where you can maintain good percentages even when hitting quite hard.

Btw you should work on the chiquita too, if you have that shot your lvl will go to the next level too (at least for me) - because even short serves aren't safe from attack anymore.

BHs are just never gonna be as strong as FHs, I just want to increase the quality enough to force some weak shots that I can then kill with my FH. As for FH loopkills, I've played against some pretty high level players with all sorts of pips, as long as what's blocked back isn't too fast or too short, you can always loop kill it. I haven't yet played anyone who can double bounce block with regularity, so most of the time it's just a matter of how fast the ball is coming back.

For me at least, the more "weird shit" there is, the more I loop kill it. Overcoming weirdness with pure power is the way to go.

 

[dingyibvs]

Friends- you do not need any anti-inflammatory medicines for your minor sports injuries. A thermotex far infared heating pad will do wonders for you. I have been using mine for nearly a year, and this thing is the best medical recovery device i have used by far...and i've used pretty much all of them (chinese cupping, TENS machine, massage gun, foam roller).

For You

Own the most versatile, medical grade far infrared heating pad on the market ... Penetrating 10x deeper than regular heat pads. With safe therapeutic heat that won't burn or dehydrate.

www.thermotex.com

I have the platinum model. this thing comes highly recommended by Bob and Brad (to excellent physical therapists who run a popular youtube channel). they even have a discount code for $30 off "Famousptx"

I just got a "far infrared" heating pad from Amazon, but I think it's just a regular heating pad lol. It sure heats up well, but I don't really feel the deeper penetration. I just ordered a Thermotex Platinum and I'll compare the two. It's kinda pricey, but life's too short to deal with injuries instead of playing TT!

I re-injured my butt a couple weeks ago, real pain in the ass lemme tell ya! Compresses on my nerves too, and while massaging the muscle with a lacrosse ball gives 90% pain relief, it's only temporary. Worse than that, my wife made me lift the bed (king size, with a 13 inch ultra-dense "it's like concrete - per my friend" foam mattress on it) to swap out the bedroom rug with the living room rug. I've been telling her that I'm injured and can't lift heavy stuff, but she ordered 2 new sofas for the living room and they arrived a month early for whatever reason. I don't want to have to move the sofas to swap the rugs later, so I had to do it yesterday. Rather than following my advice to go under the bed to roll the rug across, she was too lazy and tried to do it from the outside, causing me to hold the bed up higher, longer, and in an unbalanced position resulting in me spraining my right posterior obliques as well .

Now I've got a right butt and right oblique injury, and I think I'm just gonna have to take it easy for a while. Hopefully the heating pad can accelerate the healing, and let me at least get some limited practice in. I think I'm gonna use this time to practice my short game. Once that's done then I can finally move onto the sexy counter-loop game.

 

[Der_Echte]

@dingyibvs that is why you make the BIG bucks.

 

[Jslick89]

I just got a "far infrared" heating pad from Amazon, but I think it's just a regular heating pad lol. It sure heats up well, but I don't really feel the deeper penetration. I just ordered a Thermotex Platinum and I'll compare the two. It's kinda pricey, but life's too short to deal with injuries instead of playing TT!

I re-injured my butt a couple weeks ago, real pain in the ass lemme tell ya! Compresses on my nerves too, and while massaging the muscle with a lacrosse ball gives 90% pain relief, it's only temporary. Worse than that, my wife made me lift the bed (king size, with a 13 inch ultra-dense "it's like concrete - per my friend" foam mattress on it) to swap out the bedroom rug with the living room rug. I've been telling her that I'm injured and can't lift heavy stuff, but she ordered 2 new sofas for the living room and they arrived a month early for whatever reason. I don't want to have to move the sofas to swap the rugs later, so I had to do it yesterday. Rather than following my advice to go under the bed to roll the rug across, she was too lazy and tried to do it from the outside, causing me to hold the bed up higher, longer, and in an unbalanced position resulting in me spraining my right posterior obliques as well .

Now I've got a right butt and right oblique injury, and I think I'm just gonna have to take it easy for a while. Hopefully the heating pad can accelerate the healing, and let me at least get some limited practice in. I think I'm gonna use this time to practice my short game. Once that's done then I can finally move onto the sexy counter-loop game.

I have no experience with amazon far infrared but usually that amazon stuff is from china. thermotex is medical grade and produced in canada i'm pretty sure! Hope it works out as good for you as it has for me. I'm sitting at my desk right now heating my back in prep for the round robin tonight lol.

 

[blahness]

I finally learnt how to punch properly on the BH, and also do a stable short block also with the BH. Was trying them out and it was quite fun to vary all of them during topspin rallying rather than just doing my usual spin happy counters/loops.

 

[NextLevel]

I have no experience with amazon far infrared but usually that amazon stuff is from china. thermotex is medical grade and produced in canada i'm pretty sure! Hope it works out as good for you as it has for me. I'm sitting at my desk right now heating my back in prep for the round robin tonight lol.

There is a doctor on YouTube whose overall philosophy I agree with and whose specific opinion on infrared saunas is that it isn't an extremely safe bet given that it isnt obvious that we would have a basis in historical evolution to expose internal organs to high powered infrared (hence he is a bit wary of infrared saunas). Obviously it is just an opinion and this isnt a sauna but just food for thought.

 

[blahness]

Had some improvements in the FH flick technique directly with the receive - first thing is to never try to fight the spin, this ain't the chiquita technique where you have ample reserves of power. You have to kinda ride the spin somewhat and not try to override the incoming spin. I found that focusing on landing the right leg first allowed me to get a good position in terms of flicking against FH pendulum type serves, and a focus on landing the left leg closer to the table (directly after the serve contact) when flicking BH pendulum type of serves (otherwise my right leg is always in the wrong position for these balls and im always reaching bad). The hard part is following up after the flick because you really have to move back fast via the left leg. It's not like a long push where you can usually be a bit slower and still get to the follow up ball.

 

[dingyibvs]

Had some improvements in the FH flick technique directly with the receive - first thing is to never try to fight the spin, this ain't the chiquita technique where you have ample reserves of power. You have to kinda ride the spin somewhat and not try to override the incoming spin. I found that focusing on landing the right leg first allowed me to get a good position in terms of flicking against FH pendulum type serves, and a focus on landing the left leg closer to the table (directly after the serve contact) when flicking BH pendulum type of serves (otherwise my right leg is always in the wrong position for these balls and im always reaching bad). The hard part is following up after the flick because you really have to move back fast via the left leg. It's not like a long push where you can usually be a bit slower and still get to the follow up ball.

The pros deal with BH flick-happy players with fast serves to the BH, which is a pretty easy tactic for amateurs to adopt. How do you deal with that?

 

[blahness]

The pros deal with BH flick-happy players with fast serves to the BH, which is a pretty easy tactic for amateurs to adopt. How do you deal with that?

Tbh I tried BH chiquita from short FH side and this is where I can't keep up with the footwork (to still deal with BH long serves and also extreme wide BH serves that exit side of the table a lot) - its quite a shame because I actually can do quite a nasty diagonal chiquita from short FH. This is why the FH flick is much friendlier because you don't need to compromise hard on the positioning as compared to a BH chiquita.

In terms of defending against a fast long serve there's a few keys.

First is learning to BH loop with just the thumb and index fingers - because often you'll get caught and you'll need the fingers to do the spinning action. Finger speed is way way faster than any kind of wrist action. This way even if you're not completely in position you can still borrow the incoming speed to produce a spinny af loop which opponents have to respect.

Second is to have 0 arm backswing with the BH. If you have any kind of arm backswing you're doomed because the balls are gonna be fast and furious and theyre gonna jam you. All backswing needs to be with the body.

Thirdly, you must know all the ideal angles and brushing contact for all 7 types of spin (they are different) namely no spin, heavy under, pure topspin , sideunder and sidetop in both directions. There are tricks for every single type of serve spin.

Fourth is the footwork. There has to be some kind of feet shuffling or bouncing on the knees as the opponent is serving. You need to move to short balls using a 3 step method (right - left - right), so that even if you guess wrong, after the first step with the right foot you immediately lunge back with the left to cut off the angle and power your BH opening loop. I shared a video of Lin Yun Ju doing it in another thread.

 

[dingyibvs]

Tbh I tried BH chiquita from short FH side and this is where I can't keep up with the footwork (to still deal with BH long serves and also extreme wide BH serves that exit side of the table a lot) - its quite a shame because I actually can do quite a nasty diagonal chiquita from short FH. This is why the FH flick is much friendlier because you don't need to compromise hard on the positioning as compared to a BH chiquita.

In terms of defending against a fast long serve there's a few keys.

First is learning to BH loop with just the thumb and index fingers - because often you'll get caught and you'll need the fingers to do the spinning action. Finger speed is way way faster than any kind of wrist action. This way even if you're not completely in position you can still borrow the incoming speed to produce a spinny af loop which opponents have to respect.

Second is to have 0 arm backswing with the BH. If you have any kind of arm backswing you're doomed because the balls are gonna be fast and furious and theyre gonna jam you. All backswing needs to be with the body.

Thirdly, you must know all the ideal angles and brushing contact for all 7 types of spin (they are different) namely no spin, heavy under, pure topspin , sideunder and sidetop in both directions. There are tricks for every single type of serve spin.

Fourth is the footwork. There has to be some kind of feet shuffling or bouncing on the knees as the opponent is serving. You need to move to short balls using a 3 step method (right - left - right), so that even if you guess wrong, after the first step with the right foot you immediately lunge back with the left to cut off the angle and power your BH opening loop. I shared a video of Lin Yun Ju doing it in another thread.

Thanks, I have enough trouble with fast serves to my BH side as it is, so I haven't tried to incorporate the banana flick into my game. When I pay attention to it, I seem to be able to do it better than against long services, so I'll need to focus on getting the long services down first. I was trying to kill long services to the BH side like I would to the FH side, with a big backswing and all, but I'm also starting to find that a smaller motion is much better. I'm gonna try to use the wrist and finger more like you said to see if I can return them with better control.

 

[blahness]

Thanks, I have enough trouble with fast serves to my BH side as it is, so I haven't tried to incorporate the banana flick into my game. When I pay attention to it, I seem to be able to do it better than against long services, so I'll need to focus on getting the long services down first. I was trying to kill long services to the BH side like I would to the FH side, with a big backswing and all, but I'm also starting to find that a smaller motion is much better. I'm gonna try to use the wrist and finger more like you said to see if I can return them with better control.

I'm actually kinda interested to know how you can FH loopkill fast long serves to the wide FH - any tips for that? I can loopkill slower serves that drift long pretty comfortably but never the fast long ones (end line to end line types, usually with sideunderspin or sidetopspin), even if I add a bit of forward energy to them I feel like it's super easy for them to sail long (maybe it's the viscaria + D05 which is way too bouncy). For me against these fast long serves I only focus on catching the ball and really spinning it for my best bet.

 

[OvrChkn]

Watched some U2000 and U2400 bracket matches from the US Open this weekend on stream. Interesting to see how different players at different ranks play.

 

[dingyibvs]

I'm actually kinda interested to know how you can FH loopkill fast long serves to the wide FH - any tips for that? I can loopkill slower serves that drift long pretty comfortably but never the fast long ones (end line to end line types, usually with sideunderspin or sidetopspin), even if I add a bit of forward energy to them I feel like it's super easy for them to sail long (maybe it's the viscaria + D05 which is way too bouncy). For me against these fast long serves I only focus on catching the ball and really spinning it for my best bet.

With FH you have more time than you think, unless it's a kicker serve. So if you identify that it's not a kicker then make a jump cut to your right back and wind up, and choose your spot to loop it. If you're already looking for the BH flick your starting position should be already fairly toward the middle of the table, so this should be pretty easy. It's a lot harder if you take an extreme FH stance like Ma Long though, I can't even reach the ball most of the time when I try that lol.

 

[Emin]

I think I finally figured out what was holding me back all these recent months.
It sounds too simple and too easy to be true:
Dont think!

All this time I was not only thinking excessively 90% of the time, I was also overanalyzing myself and especially trying to tell my self how to play and execute certain shots.
Once I started to give active thought into how I should hit a backhand or what my body should do in words and thoughts, I played like I have just learned how to play.
This was the missing link all along and I just found it now.

But since last week I figured out how to leave my thoughts behind and let my body do what it can do.
Instead of saying to myself explicitly what do to, I instead imagined what it would look and feel like and it started working.
Now I can actually do what I can actually do.

I used to play like this when I as a younger teen, just pushing and playing with underspin.
Where I could play smoothly and actually feel like I am capable of showing what I can do.

The background is the following:
I read, watched and listened to many sources regarding this and similar topics for a longer time now.
And I was constantly thinking and thinking.

What I have learned now is that the 'thinking' I consider harmful for performance is a tricky thing.
Essentially, it's what happens in the prefrontal cortex (PFC).
'The PFC intelligently regulates our thoughts, actions, and emotions through extensive connections with other brain regions.'
The 'thinking' that occurs in the PFC gives us a sense of awareness and defines who we are.
This also applies to local orientation and time.
While the PFC is active, entering flow or 'the zone' becomes challenging.
Ideally, you reach transient hypofrontality, which, in simple terms, is lowering the voice of the PFC.

Once you reach that state, you start to act intuitively and almost automatically.
It pulls you out of your head and into the here and now.
Thoughts always prevent you from being present; they either dwell in the past or anticipate the future.
'Not thinking' brings you into the present moment.

Now, the self that can actually do things takes over.
Your body functions without any intermediary step that slows you down.
The thoughts that slow you down are usually words and sentences.
Whenever you perform and feel your best effortlessly, you would probably say that you didnt even think or do anything, you were just watching it happen.

My solution: Imagine, Visualize and create a feeling that your body can handle instantly without your PFC interacting. Words need your cognitive PFC to be reacted to.
Breathing, routines, shifting attention etc. are things that also go into that category but not in this post.
This "not thinking" realization and implementation was the key for me.
So:
Don't think!

I could write more about this, but not now.

 

[Jslick89]

There is a doctor on YouTube whose overall philosophy I agree with and whose specific opinion on infrared saunas is that it isn't an extremely safe bet given that it isnt obvious that we would have a basis in historical evolution to expose internal organs to high powered infrared (hence he is a bit wary of infrared saunas). Obviously it is just an opinion and this isnt a sauna but just food for thought.

Fair enough, sir. Who is the doctor? The reason i found about about a thermotex is from Bob and Brad on youtube. They are pretty well known physical therapists who have their own clinic but also have a youtube channel with millions of followers. i used their other techniques pretty successfully to treat my tennis elbow and "tech-neck". They have a combined experience of over 60 years in physical therapy. I admit, i would probably be a little weary of going into a full infared suana too. i like the thermotex because its concentrated right where i put it.

i don't think i'm over exposing to anything but who really knows? I'm sure some of the food ive eaten or the medicine or the environments ive been exposed to have done more long term damage to me over the years than my little heat pad but i'm not a scientist who can measures these sort of things. i just know when my back is tight and sore after playing for 2-3 hours, 30-50 minutes with the thermotex and i feel almost good as new.

of course, the heatpad can never replace the core strengthening exercises i do on a daily basis. that is what really healed my back, and keeps me on the table (about 6 years ago i had a serious back injury from a bouldering accident. i feel 18 feet.....twice....because i was a young and dumb 28 year old who thought just because i was injuried [from the first fall] that i could try the route one more time because i was only one hold away from the top...only to fall again the exact same way and compound my injury as a result). It was many years of significant back pain. it wasn't until i discovered Dr Aaron Horschig and learned to do the McGill "Big 3" exercises that i found the solution to my back pain. I still have back pain, but i'm physically stronger than i have ever been my whole life. I got to where i was easily doing reps of 225 on the squat rack (I weigh 160lbs) among other physical feats i could have never imagined accomplishing before.

anyways, health and fitness is a a journey not an end point. i'm sure many here have realized that or will learn that eventually. you could become very healthy but if you stop your journey, things can go south faster than one might realize. work at it a little bit each day. take in new info with a grain of salt, find sources you can rely on, and chip away at it each day. Same goes for progressing in table tennis right?

cheers,
J