Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[NextLevel]

Fair enough, sir. Who is the doctor? The reason i found about about a thermotex is from Bob and Brad on youtube. They are pretty well known physical therapists who have their own clinic but also have a youtube channel with millions of followers. i used their other techniques pretty successfully to treat my tennis elbow and "tech-neck". They have a combined experience of over 60 years in physical therapy. I admit, i would probably be a little weary of going into a full infared suana too. i like the thermotex because its concentrated right where i put it.

i don't think i'm over exposing to anything but who really knows? I'm sure some of the food ive eaten or the medicine or the environments ive been exposed to have done more long term damage to me over the years than my little heat pad but i'm not a scientist who can measures these sort of things. i just know when my back is tight and sore after playing for 2-3 hours, 30-50 minutes with the thermotex and i feel almost good as new.

of course, the heatpad can never replace the core strengthening exercises i do on a daily basis. that is what really healed my back, and keeps me on the table (about 6 years ago i had a serious back injury from a bouldering accident. i feel 18 feet.....twice....because i was a young and dumb 28 year old who thought just because i was injuried [from the first fall] that i could try the route one more time because i was only one hold away from the top...only to fall again the exact same way and compound my injury as a result). It was many years of significant back pain. it wasn't until i discovered Dr Aaron Horschig and learned to do the McGill "Big 3" exercises that i found the solution to my back pain. I still have back pain, but i'm physically stronger than i have ever been my whole life. I got to where i was easily doing reps of 225 on the squat rack (I weigh 160lbs) among other physical feats i could have never imagined accomplishing before.

anyways, health and fitness is a a journey not an end point. i'm sure many here have realized that or will learn that eventually. you could become very healthy but if you stop your journey, things can go south faster than one might realize. work at it a little bit each day. take in new info with a grain of salt, find sources you can rely on, and chip away at it each day. Same goes for progressing in table tennis right?

cheers,
J

His name is Sean O'Mara.

 

[blahness]

With FH you have more time than you think, unless it's a kicker serve. So if you identify that it's not a kicker then make a jump cut to your right back and wind up, and choose your spot to loop it. If you're already looking for the BH flick your starting position should be already fairly toward the middle of the table, so this should be pretty easy. It's a lot harder if you take an extreme FH stance like Ma Long though, I can't even reach the ball most of the time when I try that lol.

I think I know why - I usually don't like to step backwards with the right foot....I always feel like if I step backwards I'm giving up table coverage, which may not necessarily be true.

 

[blahness]

Had some serious sore legs from the gym so my looping was terrible lol today. But I learnt quite a disgusting BH sidespin return which worked even better than the chiquita in terms of receiving FH pendulum sidetopspin serves to the extreme BH corner. This is similar to the sidespin chopblock but I can produce sidetopspin or sideunderspin, both against incoming sideunderspin or sidetopspin depending how I contact the ball. It produce a ball that exits the sides (same sidespin as chiquita but without the topspin). So I can now either sideswipe it down the line / diagonally or do this BH sidespin to their BH corner, or do a short push if I'm not feeling like my body is in perfect shape to chiquita and attack everything.

I also occasionally stepped in to do sudden FH flicks, sideswipes or deep pushes against these short balls.

Furthermore, I simply chopped the long fast FH pendulums to my wide FH hard instead of attempting to loop it lol. And it worked amazing in terms of slowing the game down.

As a result, I was looping/chiquita a lot less directly after the receive, but somehow I won a lot more using such a playstyle, by trying to play with extreme spin/placement variation on the receive and then attempt to defend the 3rd ball or loop the 4th ball if the opponent decides to play a passive stroke.

Very interesting way to play tbh, this playstyle is more like playing positional chess rather than going all out attacking.

 

[dingyibvs]

Played in the Thursday night league today, I guess they've brought it back, had been stopped for quite a few months. I ended up winning all my matches, first time that's ever happened since I moved to the top group. That's of course nice, but winning is not my top goal, applying my trainings is, and that was a big fail.

My training has mostly been for BH, and secondarily the FH counter loops. For whatever reason, I just can't bring myself to use my BH. My improvements did allow me to win a few more points, but they weren't decisive. I hardly had any BH opening loops and I barely did any counters and did maybe one proper BH loop. It was a very FH oriented game. I had no problem applying my FH counter loops, having an aggressive FH was natural, and despite way less practice it worked surprisingly well and helped me win a few points. So it's a bit frustrating that I didn't get to apply my advances in BH.

I think what I'm gonna do is to start being ultra aggressive with my BH. Aside from ultra short balls to the BH side, I'm gonna loop or chiquita everything. I'll see if it can allow me to develop an aggressive mindset on that side, like I have on my FH side.

My last match was against the top regular in the club. He's rated ~1800 at our club and ~2000 at Berkeley, which I think uses a ratings system that stretches the ratings out a bit (i.e. higher level guys are rated higher than they should be, while lower level guys are rated lower than they should be), so probably ~1800. He recorded the match, I hope to take a look at it later when he sends it to me. Maybe because we were being recorded, but we both played like crap 😓 When we play each other I'm usually the attacker while he's the defender, in this match I missed countless FH drives and he hardly blocked any of my loops. It was NOT pretty. We're both gonna have to step it up.

 

[Emin]

This is my advice if the problem is that you cant get yourself to loop/attack on backhand in matches:

In order to implement your backhand loops and openups, you want to build the instinct to loop the ball with no intervention or active pursuit of it in your body/mind.
Ideally you are determined and confident with no hesitation or doubts.

Once you see the ball coming to the backhand side in a opportunistic way (half long/long/high) your instinct, first reaction, automatic response should be:
1. Seeing the ball coming there, and realizing that it is an opportunity to attack and use the backhand.
2. Autonomous response: "Go loop that!" or "Go flip that!" followed by action.
Important: Its instinctive!

“When the opponent expand, I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And, when there is an opportunity, I do not hit - it hits all by itself.”​

― Bruce Lee
You program your body and mind during training, exercises and practice matches.
It takes time to override the preexisting reaction to for example "push", "do nothing" or "tense up and act like you have never played a backhand before" ( you get what I mean).
Once you get the technique down so fundamentally that you dont need to think about it, you apply it intentionally at first in actual (practice) matches or you imagine yourself playing a point and play it from the backhand.
Improved shadow practice, imagine the serve, the return, how you are moving, what you are feeling and then the backhand loop that you are hitting.
Watch matches where the implement their backhand, and replay the point by yourself in your minds eye and with your racket by yourself.
Actively, vividly imagine what is happening and get yourself into the moment as much as possible, your opponent being anyone you can imagine like a common practice partner.
Play the point by moving just like in a real match where you track the imagined ball with your eyes and program your desired reaction to that ball and play it out.
FZD vs Ma Long, there are like a million matches on YT with many backhands and forehands.
Any CNT Player vs Samsonov for example.
It might sound stupid or like it wouldnt work, but it does if you learn how to do it well.
Think of it like overwriting an algorithm.
There is science around this, but dont want to bring up that up right now.
You learn from teachers, not from science papers.

If you have the technique: Dont think about doing it, trust your inner self that it will perform.

So my advice: Replay points from pro matches where you apply your backhand into play.
Practice by yourself using your mind and body.
Program your inner self to do what you want.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

played the last tournament of the year today, in a homogenous league of 8 players, with 4 round robin.
despite some improvements in practice, in match i have not done well this year, losing ranking points, and many matches that i should have won were lost.

this time im seeded 3rd out of 8.

R1 #7 I was pitted with a young guy with little experience and won easily 3-0 but playing not very good.

R2 #4 i lost this leftie already 2 times. last one i was 2-0 up and lost 2-3, it still hurts.
i played well in G1 being in the lead until 7-7 my serve. and i don't take my time, make a serve miss and serve so bad the 2nd one its a penalty... 7-11. G2 i'm still affected and lose even more easily. G3 i fight more from the start and play better. i manage to win it at deuce. but G4, some bad receiving again. I got even aced. G4 i get a bad start and can't get back. A very bad match for me apart G3 .1-3

R3 #2 guy has Attack8 on BH. i warmed up with him before the tournament and was winning all the practice rallies. But he is leading early in the game, im not playing well and i'm getting negative feelings. I lose G1 largely but i manage to calm down and I play well. winning easily 3 and 6.
G4 i lose a bit stupidly the first two points and i realize that my heart is beating a bit too fast. i feel a bit like drowning a little bit. My head cannot think clearly, i don't control my body. its a total disaster. 5-11
before G5 i take my time, and decide to take as much time as possible between points. I'm in the early lead 3-2 and i miss a huge easy penalty. There was a ball coming from the next table which distracts a bit but i want to take the shot because the ball seems too easy and the umpire doesn't say anything. I miss it. I grin while taking the towel, but i manage to win the next 4 points 7-3. He comes back 7-6 but i manage to stay ahead and win it 11-9, with a little help from the net on matchpoint. whew. my push was good and because of the warmup practice i was confident against his serves.

R4 #1 i play against an unbeaten guy seeded 1st. I think he didn't get well into the match because he was umpiring just before we played while i could warmup properly. I played one of the best match in recent times, very little mistakes, and winning all the rallies, very solid overall, and played smoothly without overplaying. I'm surprised i won it so easily 3-0 (3 4 7) and the opponent was like utterly disgusted at the end...

I finish 1st of the mini-league thanks to set count in a 3 way tie. (me #1 #2 #4)
---
because its Xmas and there were a lot of prizes to win, they made a quick KO tournament with 1 set game between 3rd and 4th, then the winner against 2nd. The 2nd player won and played a revenge match in best of 3.
this time, stupidly i didn't prepare well before the match despite having time, and wasn't ready from the start. He played much better this time and more agressively while my serves were less effective, because i was executing less good + he got a bit used to it. Still i could / should have won G1 had i not miss a few easy balls. 9-11.
G2 i take the lead and at 10-8. but i still don't feel comfortable and don't know what to serve. Well thats it i dont play well here and lose the golden point 10-11... guy served from FH side hook serve with sidespin (== same spin than leftie). and that bothered me a lot. Including a receive miss on the golden point. I did miss many chances in this re-match.

And so thats it, i lost the last match of the season, and the best prizes were gone as i lost at paper-rock-scissors, still got a T-shirt. its a good image of what the whole season was: losing games that i shouldn't, while there were glimpses of hope with some good stuff.

In our team there is a new very strong player from India, he is coaching (for free) a bit and I'm learning a lot from him. this today i did well: thanks to his advice, i was much more relaxed when serving, not only arm and wrist, but ALSO THE BODY. and it did help a lot !

 

[NextLevel]

played the last tournament of the year today, in a homogenous league of 8 players, with 4 round robin.
despite some improvements in practice, in match i have not done well this year, losing ranking points, and many matches that i should have won were lost.

this time im seeded 3rd out of 8.

R1 #7 I was pitted with a young guy with little experience and won easily 3-0 but playing not very good.

R2 #4 i lost this leftie already 2 times. last one i was 2-0 up and lost 2-3, it still hurts.
i played well in G1 being in the lead until 7-7 my serve. and i don't take my time, make a serve miss and serve so bad the 2nd one its a penalty... 7-11. G2 i'm still affected and lose even more easily. G3 i fight more from the start and play better. i manage to win it at deuce. but G4, some bad receiving again. I got even aced. G4 i get a bad start and can't get back. A very bad match for me apart G3 .1-3

R3 #2 guy has Attack8 on BH. i warmed up with him before the tournament and was winning all the practice rallies. But he is leading early in the game, im not playing well and i'm getting negative feelings. I lose G1 largely but i manage to calm down and I play well. winning easily 3 and 6.
G4 i lose a bit stupidly the first two points and i realize that my heart is beating a bit too fast. i feel a bit like drowning a little bit. My head cannot think clearly, i don't control my body. its a total disaster. 5-11
before G5 i take my time, and decide to take as much time as possible between points. I'm in the early lead 3-2 and i miss a huge easy penalty. There was a ball coming from the next table which distracts a bit but i want to take the shot because the ball seems too easy and the umpire doesn't say anything. I miss it. I grin while taking the towel, but i manage to win the next 4 points 7-3. He comes back 7-6 but i manage to stay ahead and win it 11-9, with a little help from the net on matchpoint. whew. my push was good and because of the warmup practice i was confident against his serves.

R4 #1 i play against an unbeaten guy seeded 1st. I think he didn't get well into the match because he was umpiring just before we played while i could warmup properly. I played one of the best match in recent times, very little mistakes, and winning all the rallies, very solid overall, and played smoothly without overplaying. I'm surprised i won it so easily 3-0 (3 4 7) and the opponent was like utterly disgusted at the end...

I finish 1st of the mini-league thanks to set count in a 3 way tie. (me #1 #2 #4)
---
because its Xmas and there were a lot of prizes to win, they made a quick KO tournament with 1 set game between 3rd and 4th, then the winner against 2nd. The 2nd player won and played a revenge match in best of 3.
this time, stupidly i didn't prepare well before the match despite having time, and wasn't ready from the start. He played much better this time and more agressively while my serves were less effective, because i was executing less good + he got a bit used to it. Still i could / should have won G1 had i not miss a few easy balls. 9-11.
G2 i take the lead and at 10-8. but i still don't feel comfortable and don't know what to serve. Well thats it i dont play well here and lose the golden point 10-11... guy served from FH side hook serve with sidespin (== same spin than leftie). and that bothered me a lot. Including a receive miss on the golden point. I did miss many chances in this re-match.

And so thats it, i lost the last match of the season, and the best prizes were gone as i lost at paper-rock-scissors, still got a T-shirt. its a good image of what the whole season was: losing games that i shouldn't, while there were glimpses of hope with some good stuff.

In our team there is a new very strong player from India, he is coaching (for free) a bit and I'm learning a lot from him. this today i did well: thanks to his advice, i was much more relaxed when serving, not only arm and wrist, but ALSO THE BODY. and it did help a lot !

Sounds like a good day without great breaks. We just have to hope we can stay in it long enough tk get great breaks. I think between work and family, I might have to take a break again this year. My parents and kids are getting older and I really need to reorganize a lot of stuff. Hoping I can get to a point where the will be room to come back and play either middle of next year or in 2025. Also working a lot on personal fitness and strength including glute activation lol.

 

[Der_Echte]

U sound a LOT liike Tiger NL

 

[Topspinslinger]

Happy holidays everyone! This year went great for me personally. I went up +150 rating and almost won against someone playing in the highest league who was top 100 in the country.

The last tournament of the year i won against players who i never won against, and even won the entire tournament. Maybe because of my new racket😂🥂

Everyone a merry Christmas🥂🥳 and good luck in next year with tabletennis.

 

[Der_Echte]

TTS, that sounds like sum seriously gute Scheize.

 

[Der_Echte]

Before anyone cancels me on media, what I wrote was highly complimentary of TTS's recent improvement and performance.

 

[OvrChkn]

I think I've found a big component that has been hindering my playing without my noticing. I took a month off from lifting, loss some mass, and found that my footwork, energy levels, and sleep quality dramatically increased. Probably burned myself out physically from lifting + practice. Started lifting again, just two days a week for an hour each, and I'm just sluggish movement wise. Not sure where to go from here, but I'll have to fine tune a lot of things.

 

[dingyibvs]

I think I've found a big component that has been hindering my playing without my noticing. I took a month off from lifting, loss some mass, and found that my footwork, energy levels, and sleep quality dramatically increased. Probably burned myself out physically from lifting + practice. Started lifting again, just two days a week for an hour each, and I'm just sluggish movement wise. Not sure where to go from here, but I'll have to fine tune a lot of things.

Yeah, I wouldn't lift much. I've been doing very little lifts, just 4 exercises per lift day, and only 2 sets per exercise. I do 4 lift days per week, but only after TT if I'm also playing TT that day. That's not a big problem as 8 total sets doesn't take long.

My focus recently has also been on weight loss, I'm just lifting enough to maintain my current strength. I gained 12lbs after I broke my leg earlier this year. I've lost 8 back now while being significantly stronger, and I plan to lose at least a few more lbs. I'm finally feeling like I can reach the balls that I was able to before.

 

[dingyibvs]

This is my advice if the problem is that you cant get yourself to loop/attack on backhand in matches:

In order to implement your backhand loops and openups, you want to build the instinct to loop the ball with no intervention or active pursuit of it in your body/mind.
Ideally you are determined and confident with no hesitation or doubts.

Once you see the ball coming to the backhand side in a opportunistic way (half long/long/high) your instinct, first reaction, automatic response should be:
1. Seeing the ball coming there, and realizing that it is an opportunity to attack and use the backhand.
2. Autonomous response: "Go loop that!" or "Go flip that!" followed by action.
Important: Its instinctive!

“When the opponent expand, I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And, when there is an opportunity, I do not hit - it hits all by itself.”​

― Bruce Lee
You program your body and mind during training, exercises and practice matches.
It takes time to override the preexisting reaction to for example "push", "do nothing" or "tense up and act like you have never played a backhand before" ( you get what I mean).
Once you get the technique down so fundamentally that you dont need to think about it, you apply it intentionally at first in actual (practice) matches or you imagine yourself playing a point and play it from the backhand.
Improved shadow practice, imagine the serve, the return, how you are moving, what you are feeling and then the backhand loop that you are hitting.
Watch matches where the implement their backhand, and replay the point by yourself in your minds eye and with your racket by yourself.
Actively, vividly imagine what is happening and get yourself into the moment as much as possible, your opponent being anyone you can imagine like a common practice partner.
Play the point by moving just like in a real match where you track the imagined ball with your eyes and program your desired reaction to that ball and play it out.
FZD vs Ma Long, there are like a million matches on YT with many backhands and forehands.
Any CNT Player vs Samsonov for example.
It might sound stupid or like it wouldnt work, but it does if you learn how to do it well.
Think of it like overwriting an algorithm.
There is science around this, but dont want to bring up that up right now.
You learn from teachers, not from science papers.

If you have the technique: Dont think about doing it, trust your inner self that it will perform.

So my advice: Replay points from pro matches where you apply your backhand into play.
Practice by yourself using your mind and body.
Program your inner self to do what you want.

So I used a combination of what you mentioned and what I mentioned the past few days. I watched a bunch of pro matches, some in slow motion at first before regular speed. I trained in my mind as well, and I took a more aggressive approach during practice.

I think part of my issue was also that I was constantly tinkering with my BH motion, trying to find out the optimal method to generate quality. I was 90% there, but I wanted to be 100% before I practice it in quantity. I finally settled on a form, and so on Sunday I spent a full practice session with the robot settling the motion, with a focus on the opening loop vs. backspin. I had it shoot the ball from 3 different heights, which gives 3 different trajectories to the ball, starting from the highest. From each height it would shoot a lower arc and higher arc ball. I did about 100 for each height, and I alternated between brush loop and power loop, then for the latter half of each height I also alternated each corner. I then did a combo BH/FH opening loop drill with different locations, height, and speed. Then finished off with some loops against higher topspin balls which I don't usually practice but encounter a lot during actual games.

Then today during the club session, I did some BH opening loop practice before playing a practice match. The effort really paid off! I made a bunch of BH opening loops and I hardly missed any! I was hitting them to both corners. I was mainly able to execute the brush loop though, there weren't many opportunities for power loops. Initially it wasn't really helping me win any points, as I was looping only cross table, but after I started mixing in down the line shots it really started affecting his play. My chiquitas weren't very good though, that was a net negative as even if I don't miss I didn't generate a whole lot of quality and was easily countered, so I'll need to work on that.

 

[Emin]

Glad its working out!

I Also faced and sometimes still face that issue but its gotten a lot better.
Thinking about which kind of movement to do and so on is the last thing you want to do. Generally thinking in the point is something to get rid of.

Only think in between points and in break and even then keep it limited.
In the game you gotta trust your ability to hit and react correctly.

During practice at home I work on shutting down my thoughts from analyzing and correcting technique.
I briefly imagine how I want the movement to look and feel like and it works.

Thats how I managed to get the reverse pendulum down easily.
I used to think and think about every thing that I should do and What I am doing wrong and so on.

Right now I am working on getting my cues and Routine ready and applicable so that I dont overthinking or get put off by internal or external distractions. Got some tournament Matches these days.

Hoping for the best.

 

[blahness]

My 2 yr old D05 finally broke down today. The spin finally died lol. I'm thinking of replacing it with a D09c for my FH for more increased control and spin, but having some doubts because D05 is such a durability king...

 

[blahness]

I finally figured out how to do quite a nasty FH snake as a weapon against dropshots haha. But my movement is opposite of Adam's. Adam always fakes a fade and does the hook. The one I can put a stupid amount of spin with a fade movement and end with a hook. Gonna learn it for the BH too!

 

[dingyibvs]

So I glued up a sheet of D09c and one T05 to my Viscaria and gave it a try today with the robot. I was wondering in the months since I last used an outer ALC blade or T05 if my perspective has changed with my improvement in technique.

The T05 side felt effortless on softer shots, a little wrist flip and the ball has good pace. However, on harder shots there was a distinct lack of dwell that was immediately obvious when I flipped the bat over to use the D09C side.

Compared with the 968, the Viscaria most obviously has a more muted and stiffer feel. I think I'm used to loop driving with the more dwelly 968, as my success rate driving low backspin with the Viscaria was pretty bad. I think it would need a bit more brushing.

It was a massive difference when I moved from the TB ALC to the Yasaka Sweden Extra, but as I moved to the HL5 and then 968 and now trying a Viscaria it doesn't feel like a huge difference. My stroke has developed around the 968 now, so that's probably the difference at this point.

 

[blahness]

So I glued up a sheet of D09c and one T05 to my Viscaria and gave it a try today with the robot. I was wondering in the months since I last used an outer ALC blade or T05 if my perspective has changed with my improvement in technique.

The T05 side felt effortless on softer shots, a little wrist flip and the ball has good pace. However, on harder shots there was a distinct lack of dwell that was immediately obvious when I flipped the bat over to use the D09C side.

Compared with the 968, the Viscaria most obviously has a more muted and stiffer feel. I think I'm used to loop driving with the more dwelly 968, as my success rate driving low backspin with the Viscaria was pretty bad. I think it would need a bit more brushing.

It was a massive difference when I moved from the TB ALC to the Yasaka Sweden Extra, but as I moved to the HL5 and then 968 and now trying a Viscaria it doesn't feel like a huge difference. My stroke has developed around the 968 now, so that's probably the difference at this point.

Yes - with Viscaria you have to focus a bit more on brushing because the ball will fly out if you try to hit too much. You still need to sink it into the sponge tho with the body. What I like about that there's a very nice separation of concerns between the body and arm - the forearm is used for brushing and the body for impacting the ball. Kinda like the ZJK FH brushing stroke now that I think about what would work best.

 

[dingyibvs]

Played in the club league today, and I was determined to implement my plan detailed a few posts ago. TLDR version: I hit an obscene (for me) number of nice BH shots, but it didn't translate to wins .

I started off with the first match losing the first 3 matches by missing 3 BH opening loops in a roll, but then I adjusted. It went to the 5th set, and while I was hitting so many more BH shots that I ever had, I could only reliably land them cross table and no matter how much power I put into it it just wasn't enough to win too many points. I wanted to ensure that I win at least one match tonight, so I cheated a bit the 5th set. I still opened up with my BH, but I looked to pivot ASAP and hit winners with my FH. That was the only time I cheated, though it did secure my only win of the night I know that'd actually be the right way to play, but that's not my focus right now.

The second guy figured out that I could only hit BHs cross table and pivoted aggressively. I had a lot of trouble with that. He really only hit FHs to my FH side, but I was so focused on my BH and didn't try to anticipate the shot. I found throughout the night that as I never practice my FH and focus my attention exclusively on the BH during games my FH game is suffering. But that's no big deal, I can get that back easily.

The 3rd guy plays anti on the BH side, I usually just loop drive everything past him with my FH, but it's a nightmare when trying to do the same with the BH lol. By the time I reached the 4th and last match, my BH was feeling a lot more natural. I hit the best BH shots in this match, and it was a close one, but in critical moments I just didn't have the stability to win the game.

I think going forward, I'm gonna maintain the same regimen for the rest of the week and continue to develop a more BH mindset. I'll mix in some return board work to practice executing continuous loops. Starting next week I'll focus on hitting down the line shots. I'll try to hit every BH shot down the line next club day, which I think will work better as the returned balls will mostly probably be to my middle or FH which I can then FH loop. The week after I'll start doing both down the line and cross table, and after that I'll try to integrate everything together along with FH training.