Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

is that a new trend ?
I've encountered recently a lot of players with illegal serves like REALLY illegal. they serve BEHIND their body so i can't even see the ball and the racket when it hits the ball.

today it was with 2 junior players. both had the same hook serve. and one of them also managed to hide the ball when doing the pendulum. for the hook serve i've seen a few other persons doing the serve, for the pendulum i had a problem with a lefthanded guy but maybe the first time with a right handed person

what bothers me is that they KNEW what they were doing, because when i told them so, they could quickly fix the "problem".

today was only training matches, but i've had the problem in competitions too

 

[NextLevel]

is that a new trend ?
I've encountered recently a lot of players with illegal serves like REALLY illegal. they serve BEHIND their body so i can't even see the ball and the racket when it hits the ball.

today it was with 2 junior players. both had the same hook serve. and one of them also managed to hide the ball when doing the pendulum. for the hook serve i've seen a few other persons doing the serve, for the pendulum i had a problem with a lefthanded guy but maybe the first time with a right handed person

what bothers me is that they KNEW what they were doing, because when i told them so, they could quickly fix the "problem".

today was only training matches, but i've had the problem in competitions too

Not new at all, it is part of the growth on popularity of the hook serve for sure.

 

[dingyibvs]

Not new at all, it is part of the growth on popularity of the hook serve for sure.

Yea, it benefits a lot by throwing into your body and lowering your center of gravity, as the hook serve is a bit more driven by body motion and less on wrist motion and both movements help with that. I mean, other services benefit from those things too, but the hook serve seems to benefit from it a bit more.

 

[SleepyMaster]

On a Saturday tournament I have lose to a long pip player, so today my coach decide to give me long pip session. I find out that I struggle more against no spin, short over the table blocks, and flat punches that came from long pips, rather than regular chops. But it was fun l, I haven’t did specific “against pip” trainings in a while.

How often, you guys, incorporate such kind of training in your schedule? If you did so, of course 🤓

 

[Wrighty67]

On a Saturday tournament I have lose to a long pip player, so today my coach decide to give me long pip session. I find out that I struggle more against no spin, short over the table blocks, and flat punches that came from long pips, rather than regular chops. But it was fun l, I haven’t did specific “against pip” trainings in a while.

How often, you guys, incorporate such kind of training in your schedule? If you did so, of course 🤓

I’m the same but luckily have two very good LP players in my team to practice against. I’m getting better at staying on top of the ball and rolling over it instead of looping it.

 

[NextLevel]

On a Saturday tournament I have lose to a long pip player, so today my coach decide to give me long pip session. I find out that I struggle more against no spin, short over the table blocks, and flat punches that came from long pips, rather than regular chops. But it was fun l, I haven’t did specific “against pip” trainings in a while.

How often, you guys, incorporate such kind of training in your schedule? If you did so, of course 🤓

My coach felt that if you could loop no spin with quality then your loops against topspin and backspin would automatically improve so he liked to use short pips, long pips and anti spin in his practice quite a bit. It is part of the reason my game is so heavily focused on spin and much less on speed or power. Nowadays I don't have that many people to practice against anymore since I don't have any where close to me to play or train on my schedule but I like to topspin against people who use pips and want to chop or chop block so I can work on my timing and push my spin to its limits. Probably the bear form of bodyweight training in table tennis IMHO.

 

[kindof99]

is that a new trend ?
I've encountered recently a lot of players with illegal serves like REALLY illegal. they serve BEHIND their body so i can't even see the ball and the racket when it hits the ball.

today it was with 2 junior players. both had the same hook serve. and one of them also managed to hide the ball when doing the pendulum. for the hook serve i've seen a few other persons doing the serve, for the pendulum i had a problem with a lefthanded guy but maybe the first time with a right handed person

what bothers me is that they KNEW what they were doing, because when i told them so, they could quickly fix the "problem".

today was only training matches, but i've had the problem in competitions too

I was frustrated by illegal serves all the time. It appears that most of my friends actually serve legally. Some do not toss high enough, and others hide the ball/spin the ball somehow. Some players are not bothered by these illegal serves, but for me, I almost feel these serves kick me and slow my response.

So one should either not play with these players at all, or just pretend that they serve legally and receive accordingly.

 

[SleepyMaster]

My coach felt that if you could loop no spin with quality then your loops against topspin and backspin would automatically improve so he liked to use short pips, long pips and anti spin in his practice quite a bit. It is part of the reason my game is so heavily focused on spin and much less on speed or power. Nowadays I don't have that many people to practice against anymore since I don't have any where close to me to play or train on my schedule but I like to topspin against people who use pips and want to chop or chop block so I can work on my timing and push my spin to its limits. Probably the bear form of bodyweight training in table tennis IMHO.

Im agreeing with your coach, I felt that playing against different kind of pips is making you more precise about what part of the ball you should hit and why, also it keep you stay more focused on what exact touch or stroke was performed by your opponent - so it should make you overall better player

 

[SleepyMaster]

I’m the same but luckily have two very good LP players in my team to practice against. I’m getting better at staying on top of the ball and rolling over it instead of looping it.

We always have few pips players on a weekly tourneys so i have practicing by playing matches against them. But this was my maybe second training dedicated almost exclusively to pips. Usually i use to think that having those weekly matches is enough for me lol (im sorry coach)

 

[NextLevel]

Tried to see whether I could get Skyline TG2 to block better if I out it on the Cybershape. Epic fail. So I cannot use Skyline 2 on my backhand because I cannot block sitters to hungry Texan attackers looking for balls to drive.

I have to work more aggressively on reading and adjusting my playing distance. It is crazy how much difference taking a step back can make to a shot, especially when facing 2000+ rated loops. You try to block or counter at the table off the bounce, you look like an idiot. But you do almost exactly the same thing 3 feet off the table and you can smack the ball for a winner or even play a genuine counter topspin. And even if you just get the ball back on the table, some players who are used to their first shot scoring points just get frustrated that you have the audacity to make them hit more than one shot and this gets you some points.

Since I tend to block a lot, this will be a massive change to my game if I can implement it. Again, it is just taking a step or two back and then moving to the ball but adding quality, not staying at the table and using the existing pace on the ball. The alternative, and it is an alternative, would be to practice trying to block the ball really short with sidespin and chop blocks to bring players who back off the table back to the table. But this is not how I really want to play.

 

[OvrChkn]

Tried to see whether I could get Skyline TG2 to block better if I out it on the Cybershape. Epic fail. So I cannot use Skyline 2 on my backhand because I cannot block sitters to hungry Texan attackers looking for balls to drive.

I have to work more aggressively on reading and adjusting my playing distance. It is crazy how much difference taking a step back can make to a shot, especially when facing 2000+ rated loops. You try to block or counter at the table off the bounce, you look like an idiot. But you do almost exactly the same thing 3 feet off the table and you can smack the ball for a winner or even play a genuine counter topspin. And even if you just get the ball back on the table, some players who are used to their first shot scoring points just get frustrated that you have the audacity to make them hit more than one shot and this gets you some points.

Since I tend to block a lot, this will be a massive change to my game if I can implement it. Again, it is just taking a step or two back and then moving to the ball but adding quality, not staying at the table and using the existing pace on the ball. The alternative, and it is an alternative, would be to practice trying to block the ball really short with sidespin and chop blocks to bring players who back off the table back to the table. But this is not how I really want to play.

My practice partner uses unboosted H3N on both sides and blocks/chops/pushes a good majority of balls low and half-long and it's very difficult to figure out how to counter it cause I try to play mid-range vs him and it constantly puts me out of position to loop. Going to try to put more sidespin on some of my loops to see if I can just enter the rally. You're right about people getting frustrated if the opponent just returns a ball.

 

[dingyibvs]

Tried to see whether I could get Skyline TG2 to block better if I out it on the Cybershape. Epic fail. So I cannot use Skyline 2 on my backhand because I cannot block sitters to hungry Texan attackers looking for balls to drive.

I have to work more aggressively on reading and adjusting my playing distance. It is crazy how much difference taking a step back can make to a shot, especially when facing 2000+ rated loops. You try to block or counter at the table off the bounce, you look like an idiot. But you do almost exactly the same thing 3 feet off the table and you can smack the ball for a winner or even play a genuine counter topspin. And even if you just get the ball back on the table, some players who are used to their first shot scoring points just get frustrated that you have the audacity to make them hit more than one shot and this gets you some points.

Since I tend to block a lot, this will be a massive change to my game if I can implement it. Again, it is just taking a step or two back and then moving to the ball but adding quality, not staying at the table and using the existing pace on the ball. The alternative, and it is an alternative, would be to practice trying to block the ball really short with sidespin and chop blocks to bring players who back off the table back to the table. But this is not how I really want to play.

Yeah that's what I found in my training as well. When my training partner loops hard, backing off a step makes blocking soooo much easier. If you watch the pros train, they never block off the bounce. It's just not realistic in real game situations when you don't know for sure where the ball will be (or just training at lower levels when we don't always loop to the same spot!). You're not gonna get your racket there in time to make a good block most of the time.

 

[dingyibvs]

I caught a cold over the weekend, and was busy during the week last week, so I haven't played much over the past week or so. Whenever I did play I continued trying to implement my new tactic of standing more to the middle of the table and protect my BH. This tactic seems to be settling in a bit in my game now. In my weekly training sessions we're working more on real game situations and spending a bit less time with the fundamentals. The fundamentals training isn't actually less, however, as our blocking has gotten a lot better so the intensity of training has actually gotten quite a bit more intense.

For game situation training, we're mostly focusing on service returns. Both of us have trouble returning long and/or fast services to the backup with good quality, so that's been the main focus. Our goal is to be able to punish those services with a solid loop to a location of our choosing. It's still a work in progress for both of us, to say the least.

 

[NextLevel]

I caught a cold over the weekend, and was busy during the week last week, so I haven't played much over the past week or so. Whenever I did play I continued trying to implement my new tactic of standing more to the middle of the table and protect my BH. This tactic seems to be settling in a bit in my game now. In my weekly training sessions we're working more on real game situations and spending a bit less time with the fundamentals. The fundamentals training isn't actually less, however, as our blocking has gotten a lot better so the intensity of training has actually gotten quite a bit more intense.

For game situation training, we're mostly focusing on service returns. Both of us have trouble returning long and/or fast services to the backup with good quality, so that's been the main focus. Our goal is to be able to punish those services with a solid loop to a location of our choosing. It's still a work in progress for both of us, to say the least.

One of my coaches introduced me to a drill that I use a lot when coaching. So you basically can do this with any sidespin or just straight serves. So I would serve a long backspin serve, a long topspin serve, a long no-spin serve, a long pure sidespin serve (either left or right) and then a short serve that the student had to push short and get to bounce twice on the table. Would repeat the sequence about 10 times to the forehand, 10 times to the backhand. It gets you into the habit of trying to adjust your return to different long serves and learning to push short. When you get good at it, you have at least eliminated the variable of technical ability and can keep your focus on reading the game.

 

[NextLevel]

Yeah that's what I found in my training as well. When my training partner loops hard, backing off a step makes blocking soooo much easier. If you watch the pros train, they never block off the bounce. It's just not realistic in real game situations when you don't know for sure where the ball will be (or just training at lower levels when we don't always loop to the same spot!). You're not gonna get your racket there in time to make a good block most of the time.

I agree with a few caveats. Game processing speed is arguably the biggest thing that separates stronger players from weaker players obviously, people need to play at a distance that lets them read the game while not being so far they need too much movement to get to the ball.

For blocking (mostly somewhat passive blocking, but that is harder to define these days since most good blocking technique involves the body) - the issue with taking the ball later is that it sometimes also gives the opponent too much time or produces a ball that is too high. For me, the problem isn't necessarily about blocking off the bounce as much as adjusting to the incoming ball trajectory and power. Usually, the loops I struggle with are the ones where the opponent has stepped back to topspin, especially during a rally and that allows him to bring more power and spin to the ball especially if it comes deep. It also happens coincidentally if my opponent serves long while backing off the table and I try to loop the ball early but give it spin, which makes it sit a bit (especially with these ABS balls) and the lack of forward motion gives the opponent time to counter aggressively, often close to over the table. Taking it off the bounce is challenging because I need to get to the ball early and I can't add much. But if I take the ball later, I can hit more forward, not even blocking but counter it aggressively and this is actually what I should be trying to get to. If the opponent is in trouble, rather than just keep blocking them left and right, step back and counter the ball aggressively left and right.

 

[Der_Echte]

I agree with a few caveats. Game processing speed is arguably the biggest thing that separates stronger players from weaker players obviously, people need to play at a distance that lets them read the game while not being so far they need too much movement to get to the ball.

For blocking (mostly somewhat passive blocking, but that is harder to define these days since most good blocking technique involves the body) - the issue with taking the ball later is that it sometimes also gives the opponent too much time or produces a ball that is too high. For me, the problem isn't necessarily about blocking off the bounce as much as adjusting to the incoming ball trajectory and power. Usually, the loops I struggle with are the ones where the opponent has stepped back to topspin, especially during a rally and that allows him to bring more power and spin to the ball especially if it comes deep. It also happens coincidentally if my opponent serves long while backing off the table and I try to loop the ball early but give it spin, which makes it sit a bit (especially with these ABS balls) and the lack of forward motion gives the opponent time to counter aggressively, often close to over the table. Taking it off the bounce is challenging because I need to get to the ball early and I can't add much. But if I take the ball later, I can hit more forward, not even blocking but counter it aggressively and this is actually what I should be trying to get to. If the opponent is in trouble, rather than just keep blocking them left and right, step back and counter the ball aggressively left and right.

@NextLevel just said several juicy things.

About pros/cons of taking ball later to block...

Pros: More time to see ball and be in position - maybe helps consistency

Cons: Gives opponent much more time, greatly reduces angles to use against opponent, MUCH more difficult to manage incoming spin - touch required is much higher, does not pressure or surprise opponent

Pors/Cons of blocking ball earlier

Pros: MUCH easier to handle the spin and pace blocking near the bounce, WAY more available angles, can pressure and surprise opponent, can win points directly, consistency good

Cons: If bad anticipation or bad ball read, then low consistency

The new gen ABS balls make it MUCH EAASIER to handle incoming spin then the celluloid balls... so that means easier to flip... easier to counter the flip... easier to counter the counter... and now we playing live TT like it is a Ma Long arcade video game.

It is how the sport evolved at the amateur levels too.

Next Level's comments about driving forward (and firming grip at impact) vs an incoming topspin is what players now do to handle topspin.. it is almost like an automatic response for many players.

 

[dingyibvs]

One of my coaches introduced me to a drill that I use a lot when coaching. So you basically can do this with any sidespin or just straight serves. So I would serve a long backspin serve, a long topspin serve, a long no-spin serve, a long pure sidespin serve (either left or right) and then a short serve that the student had to push short and get to bounce twice on the table. Would repeat the sequence about 10 times to the forehand, 10 times to the backhand. It gets you into the habit of trying to adjust your return to different long serves and learning to push short. When you get good at it, you have at least eliminated the variable of technical ability and can keep your focus on reading the game.

Yeah we were trying something like that. He had, for example, most trouble with long pendulum heavy backspin services to his wide BH. We practiced that until he could return it reliably, then we started alternating between long no spin, topspin, and backspin. That's about as far as we got this week, as he again started having issues with the heavy backspin service once we started incorporating other serves. When we tried this last week he couldn't even loop the backspin service even when he knew it was coming though, so it was an improvement.

 

[dingyibvs]

@NextLevel just said several juicy things.

About pros/cons of taking ball later to block...

Pros: More time to see ball and be in position - maybe helps consistency

Cons: Gives opponent much more time, greatly reduces angles to use against opponent, MUCH more difficult to manage incoming spin - touch required is much higher, does not pressure or surprise opponent

Pors/Cons of blocking ball earlier

Pros: MUCH easier to handle the spin and pace blocking near the bounce, WAY more available angles, can pressure and surprise opponent, can win points directly, consistency good

Cons: If bad anticipation or bad ball read, then low consistency

The new gen ABS balls make it MUCH EAASIER to handle incoming spin then the celluloid balls... so that means easier to flip... easier to counter the flip... easier to counter the counter... and now we playing live TT like it is a Ma Long arcade video game.

It is how the sport evolved at the amateur levels too.

Next Level's comments about driving forward (and firming grip at impact) vs an incoming topspin is what players now do to handle topspin.. it is almost like an automatic response for many players.

IMO the issue with blocking near the table comes when the loop has pace. It's easier to handle spin near the table, and in fact even when you're a bit off from the table you should step in and reach in to block off the bounce when you see a slower, spinnier one coming. When the ball has a lot of pace though, the speed makes it much harder to keep the ball on the table when you block it off the bounce.

 

[Der_Echte]

At the table vs fast powerful incoming balls, you are not exactly off the bounce (like as in 2 inches above bounce closed bat soft hand, etc)... one should have bat around net height and take ball on the rise.

That still gives one the possible angles and still have good control over the ball.

But yeah, the hard part is judging the ball right to the bounce and being there ready.

 

[netdriver]

i should rly stop dropping my arm down for forehand topspin and get into the habit of using my waist to guide my arm to the side

its more efficient and easier for me to spin the ball if my strokes are more forward