Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Lazer]

Woo Hoo!!! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Yesterday Gozo had a one on one session with an Olympian, a bona-fide National Level Player ( that is, not a OB player ). Who was it? It is none other than Mister @Heming Hu . These are the take home messages, at least for Gozo:

• Break-away from the habit of just pushing long serves. Be brave and attack or top-spin all long serves if you want to break-away from OB / club level player. You must create the mindset of attacking all long serves. No pussy-footing on this. If not, be happy and remain a club OB player forever!
• Work on open ups on both wings. Open up, open up always open up at the first instance.
• If you do these three things well with high percentage, you'll beat like 95% of the rest of the OB / club players locally. What three?
• Open up on your BH with little to no unforced error. Practice, practice and more practice.
• Open up on your FH with little to no unforced error. Practice, practice and more practice.
• Drive all the incoming blocked ball. Drive and drive and drive until you get the point.
• 95% of OB / club level does not know how to counter-loop, so they will just block and you must drive those blocked ball well to win. At least at my level, I do not have to worry about counter-looping.

That's all folks. Simple three things Heming told me to do better to elevate to the next level.

NB: He also told me to engage my core more when doing the BH open-ups. ( Bonus tip )
NBB: Heming did comment that my service is not too bad and can let me steal some easy points, at least when faced with majority of Club / Hobby level players.

You should come to my club. They slam dunk all weak openings...

The most difficult part for the opening is that You need to be in position. If not it is going to be weak.
Also open most times to backhand which is harder from forehand.

One of my training mates always expect my openings to go his forehand and its really satisfying to send them to his backhand every once in a while...
Now I distribute them evenly but still struggle with long hard backspin. But as You mention it is practice practice and ... wait for it ... PRACTICE.....

Cheers
L-zr

 

[K.K]

the part that you don’t need to worry about counterloop is a really good advice indeed. i also think that 90% of ‘hobby’ player block and if they try to counterloop, then they will likely miss and then get nervous, wich is even better for you. only scary counter player on low level are smasher and short pips player. but then you just loop to the weaker side or play deeper or wider angles. so really important to train the finish on block after open up excessively! you really need those two topspin to be precise as it can be, that you can place it whereever you want it on the table to really benefit from it in a game and find a weak spot for every player you play against. a open up in the wide forehand and then the finish in the middle was one of my favorite combinations

 

[Tyce]

And even if the counter succeeds there is a fair chance it's not very high quality -> drive drive drive again

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

He came to Malaysia to see you ?? or you flew to Australia ?

Zoom

 

[dingyibvs]

• When I told some of the more veteran players in my club about this, they too say the same thing. It seems this advise is pretty generic, but hey! I have to recognize I am at a pretty OB level player, so, simple things like this will most likely bring my game to the next level.
• Heming also mention that most OB / club level player, even if they have decent FH or BH top-spin / open-up skill but when it comes to actual match play, they dare not use it but retreat to their comfort pushing zone instead. He said, this mindset must change if one wants to move to the next level.
• I'll say this is so true for I have seen it with my own eyes, some of my Tier 1 player when they go and play in Open Tourney, they suddenly become timid little white mouse. Their ferocious FH top-spin disappear and is magically replaced with timid safe pushes.

NB: OB is a slang word for Hobby, made famous by none other than Aruna Quadri himself ( Nigerian accent ).

I think @NextLevel has been telling you the same thing too about attacking all the long pushes/serves you get!

Anyhow, I find myself amazed again and again how after each revelation in practice I can watch the same pro practice or game video and see new things that I never saw before. After yesterday's FH practice, which is the first time in maybe a year or so that I did video reviews of my form, I reached the revelation that I have not been practicing what I preach which is to align body movement with arm/racket movement on the FH side. While my body lifts while my arm goes flat or my body goes flat while my arm lifts. My swing from bottom right to upper mid/left is always accomplished by incongruent motions. Now I watch any pro practicing and I'm wowed by how their whole body and arm move in the same direction.

I think I've been approaching this in the wrong way by trying to fix my hip movement, then my body movement, then my arm movement etc. separately, when all I really needed to do is to get a proper backswing and then forward swing with leg/hip/body/arm/everything in the same direction, while using the wrist for fine tuning.

 

[dingyibvs]

And even if the counter succeeds there is a fair chance it's not very high quality -> drive drive drive again

🎼~If at first you don't succeed~Then dust yourself off and drive again~You can dust it off and drive again, drive again,~🎷

 

[Wrighty67]

• When I told some of the more veteran players in my club about this, they too say the same thing. It seems this advise is pretty generic, but hey! I have to recognize I am at a pretty OB level player, so, simple things like this will most likely bring my game to the next level.
• Heming also mention that most OB / club level player, even if they have decent FH or BH top-spin / open-up skill but when it comes to actual match play, they dare not use it but retreat to their comfort pushing zone instead. He said, this mindset must change if one wants to move to the next level.
• I'll say this is so true for I have seen it with my own eyes, some of my Tier 1 player when they go and play in Open Tourney, they suddenly become timid little white mouse. Their ferocious FH top-spin disappear and is magically replaced with timid safe pushes.

NB: OB is a slang word for Hobby, made famous by none other than Aruna Quadri himself ( Nigerian accent ).

So true - I have committed to this and have lost quite a few matches due to poor open ups that might have been pushed safely - gets harder when you miss a few not to revert to pushing. My biggest challenge however is looping long side/under serves - I still push 9-% of these :-((

 

[dingyibvs]

So true - I have committed to this and have lost quite a few matches due to poor open ups that might have been pushed safely - gets harder when you miss a few not to revert to pushing. My biggest challenge however is looping long side/under serves - I still push 9-% of these :-((

Those can be tough because it's harder to judge just how much backspin is on it than a push. At first what you can do is just take a little off the ball, make sure you're accelerating right before contact and through the contact, but don't actually use that much power. Aim a little bit higher, then you can land them more often. Some of your loops will end up high because you overestimated the spin, and against higher level players they'll feast on it, but work on landing it and landing it where you want it to go first. It takes a fairly high level player to be able to punish lower level opening loops on both wings, so if you can just land it toward their weaker wing then it'll give you confidence to continue improving your quality.

 

[Wrighty67]

Those can be tough because it's harder to judge just how much backspin is on it than a push. At first what you can do is just take a little off the ball, make sure you're accelerating right before contact and through the contact, but don't actually use that much power. Aim a little bit higher, then you can land them more often. Some of your loops will end up high because you overestimated the spin, and against higher level players they'll feast on it, but work on landing it and landing it where you want it to go first. It takes a fairly high level player to be able to punish lower level opening loops on both wings, so if you can just land it toward their weaker wing then it'll give you confidence to continue improving your quality.

Makes sense, thank you - also go with the spin on these?

 

[dingyibvs]

Makes sense, thank you - also go with the spin on these?

Yeah, start that way for sure, then work your way to against the spin. It's easier to go against the spin when you're hitting cross table, e.g. looping a FH pendulum serve with your FH to the opponent's FH corner, or looping a reverse pendulum serve with your BH to your opponent's BH corner. The toughest is when you have to do a fade shot to go against the spin, like FH looping a reverse pendulum serve to the opponent's BH corner. That's much more advanced stuff.

 

[NextLevel]

I think @NextLevel has been telling you the same thing too about attacking all the long pushes/serves you get!

Anyhow, I find myself amazed again and again how after each revelation in practice I can watch the same pro practice or game video and see new things that I never saw before. After yesterday's FH practice, which is the first time in maybe a year or so that I did video reviews of my form, I reached the revelation that I have not been practicing what I preach which is to align body movement with arm/racket movement on the FH side. While my body lifts while my arm goes flat or my body goes flat while my arm lifts. My swing from bottom right to upper mid/left is always accomplished by incongruent motions. Now I watch any pro practicing and I'm wowed by how their whole body and arm move in the same direction.

I think I've been approaching this in the wrong way by trying to fix my hip movement, then my body movement, then my arm movement etc. separately, when all I really needed to do is to get a proper backswing and then forward swing with leg/hip/body/arm/everything in the same direction, while using the wrist for fine tuning.

So the funny thing (and @haggisv can confirm) is that Heming and I share a TT coach and mentor. So a lot of Heming's stuff, I am conceptually familiar with, though I play at a much lower level. I don't always agree with all of it, but that doesn't make me right, but the good stuff, I stole from the coach that we share, the bad stuff that I don't agree with is all me and is just a symptom of my making more accommodations for lower level play and athleticism.

That coach we share was the person who taught me that most serves are long, or short and not tight and that serving a good tight short serve is more difficult than most people realize. So if you get good at looping half long serves, you will gain the initiative against most players under a certain level. So I just practiced being able to use my forehand to attack many more serves and being patient enough to let the ball come long unless the opponent had proved they could serve double bounce short.

For your observation of pros, do realize that most of these guys have been hitting a ball since they were in diapers. At that age, you don't get good power without using full body motions and it transfers over to older ages as they get stronger. Doing it that way as a adult is ideal, but given the stronger start you have with just using the arm, it is a bit harder. Work on it but don't beat up yourself over it, many people play much better table tennis using just the forearm to loop and then using fuller strokes or more body on drive opportunities.

 

[NextLevel]

So true - I have committed to this and have lost quite a few matches due to poor open ups that might have been pushed safely - gets harder when you miss a few not to revert to pushing. My biggest challenge however is looping long side/under serves - I still push 9-% of these :-((

95% of looping half long serves is forearm work, so if you are able to trust your use of the forearm and wrist to pick up the ball, anything is loopable. I must have shared this video before, there are others, but the forearm work is key. Getting into position helps but if you have have the finger feeling and speed, it solves 95% fof the problem. Shape the ball, get enough turning speed, and it will all be fine.

 

[blahness]

Yeah, start that way for sure, then work your way to against the spin. It's easier to go against the spin when you're hitting cross table, e.g. looping a FH pendulum serve with your FH to the opponent's FH corner, or looping a reverse pendulum serve with your BH to your opponent's BH corner. The toughest is when you have to do a fade shot to go against the spin, like FH looping a reverse pendulum serve to the opponent's BH corner. That's much more advanced stuff.

I think you dont need to go against the spin when you change direction - the body can be used to change the direction easily. For eg you dont necessarily need to FH fade loop a reverse serve to their BH, you can still hook loop it to their BH, you just need to aim more to the right. Same with brushing straight or even fade against FH pendulum serves - you can direct it wherever you want.

Going against the spin is in general hard, but not impossible for sure...

 

[Wrighty67]

95% of looping half long serves is forearm work, so if you are able to trust your use of the forearm and wrist to pick up the ball, anything is loopable. I must have shared this video before, there are others, but the forearm work is key. Getting into position helps but if you have have the finger feeling and speed, it solves 95% fof the problem. Shape the ball, get enough turning speed, and it will all be fine.

Very good video and reminder of how simple it should be. I need to practice this. Thx!

 

[dingyibvs]

I think you dont need to go against the spin when you change direction - the body can be used to change the direction easily. For eg you dont necessarily need to FH fade loop a reverse serve to their BH, you can still hook loop it to their BH, you just need to aim more to the right. Same with brushing straight or even fade against FH pendulum serves - you can direct it wherever you want.

Going against the spin is in general hard, but not impossible for sure...

Hmm, I'm not sure how to "hook" a FH loop to the opponent's BH side, especially when the ball is curving toward you. When I think about hooking, I'm thinking hooking a FH shot to the opponent's FH side.

 

[blahness]

Hmm, I'm not sure how to "hook" a FH loop to the opponent's BH side, especially when the ball is curving toward you. When I think about hooking, I'm thinking hooking a FH shot to the opponent's FH side.

Reverse serves curve away from you not towards you.

Check 12 mins on in this video:

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

• Woo Hoo! I am prescribed a playing style / method.
• Gozo now has a recipe to follow when playing.
• No need to use brain to think anymore.
• Last night I was with my local coach and this is the playing style he prescribed. It is simple and not complicated.
• Most important, it frees up my mind and let me play like a robot. Woo Hoo again.
• Stand at the BH corner facing diagonally towards the opponent.
• FH is resting on the middle table. Return all serves with FH. If it is a short serve = push / flick. Initiate offense with drive if serve comes with top or no-spin while if comes with back-spin then I shall loop it.
• If the ball pass my elbow, then receive with a BH push or short drive with compact stroke only. The key word being COMPACT!
• Once service return is complete; next prepare for BH rally and try to pressure by aiming at deep BH corner or cross-over point.
• If pressure is successfully applied, that is when opponent is forced to give a middle ball or more on the FH side, this is opportunity and hence begin my FH drive to end the point ( my strong point ).
• Yay! Simple recipe.... just like cooking instant ramen. Easy to cook, delicious to eat. Instant noodlefied(tm) my game, I like it! I like it a LOT!
• END

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

• Woo Hoo! I am prescribed a playing style / method.
• Gozo now has a recipe to follow when playing.
• No need to use brain to think anymore.
• Last night I was with my local coach and this is the playing style he prescribed. It is simple and not complicated.
• Most important, it frees up my mind and let me play like a robot. Woo Hoo again.
• Stand at the BH corner facing diagonally towards the opponent.
• FH resting on the middle table. All ball return with FH. If short = push / flick. If long, attack with drive if top or no-spin, loop if back spin.
• If pass my elbow, then BH push or BH short drive ( no big movement / compact movement only ).
• One service return, prepare to BH rally and try to pressure with BH by aiming at deep BH corner or cross-over point.
• If pressure is successfully applied, that is when opponent is forced to give a middle ball or on the FH side, then start your FH drive to end the point ( my strong point ).
• Yay! Simple recipe.... just like making instant noodle. Easy to cook, delicious to eat. Instant noodlefied(tm) my game, I like it! I like it a LOT!

show us video next time

 

[blahness]

I have Butterfly Super anti on my BH on my backup blade now and will use it to cause some havoc, hahahaha

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

yday i tried putting my elbow higher when serving BH serve and FH hook serve. it seemed to give good results.
i was doing that already for FH pendulum serve as I was given that advice both IRL and online. but don't remember seeing that point for BH or hook serve.

i don't understand WHY it does give better feeling, and gives more control / spin but it seems to work, at least for me.