Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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I figured out how to serve a very nasty hook serve sideunderspin long deep fast to their FH lol. It is a major point winner once they try to cover their extreme BH short corner due to my super wide angle FH pendulum serves. Since they setup close to their BH corner, they have to do a crossover step which usually has much less power and plus i have some decent sideunderspin on it so they actually have to lift it up quite a bit - so it is doubly hard. It is usually a direct point if they are unprepared. The followup is also really good because if they loop to my BH down the line it is quite risky and they earn a nasty anti block to their wide BH. If they loop to my FH i can also easily fade block it to their wide BH.

This is one of the major benefits of having the exact same preparation movement with both FH pendulum and hook.

Pretty funny today i played against some lower level players who looked pretty good when doing topspin to topspin warmup but they asked to receive my serve and I was easily winning 80-90% of the points, many just direct service points or 3rd ball attacks.
 
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do you have a video ? im interested in your serves
i try to stay anonymous here in general coz of my work but I learnt a bit from Craig Bryant and WRM for my hook serves which are probably my bread and butter winner. For all my serves I start with the full grip and either stay in the full grip for hook serves or switch halfway to the Waldner serve grip during the backswing when the bat is behind my body. This is to prevent other ppl from detecting this grip change and knowing what is coming before hand. So the angles I can achieve is wider than typical.
 
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So I'm now on week 4 in my quest to perfect my FH, and I'm super close! The 2nd to last piece is falling into place now. I'm already solid with hip rotation and activation sequence, not yet at a point where it's my default but they're at a point where I just need to remember to do them as they no longer require my full attention.

Attention, then, was turned to my racket angle. I had been trying to go with a more closed to open, as opposed to open to closed, sort of racket angle. But really neither was working, and I kept finding myself adjusting the angle mid-stroke. So I was like, forget about that, just keep my angle the same, and use the rest of the body to adjust. Damn does that work well! My consistency in training took another step up, and finally there wasn't random variations in sidespin!

The final piece of the puzzle is this slight forward lean. I haven't been focusing as much on it, but I will now. I have a good lean on the BH side, but not on the FH side. So it's quite annoying having to switch the amount of lean between FH/BH. That's the least impactful of my recent corrections though, so saved that for last to focus on.

I'm hoping that all the kinks will be worked out this week, and then I'll spend the next month working these changes into my muscle memory.

In club play my BH is becoming more and more natural. I'm already pretty good in practice, so the focus there is to add in the spin reading and adjustments in real time. When I'm tired with FH practice I do some BH. I can open up quite consistently now with good quality and solid placement, so I've been working a bit more on the BH drive which is solid against topspin but still lacking against backspin.
 
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After that last post I've had 2 practice sessions with my practice partner. The first one was a mess for my FH. I seemed to unable to replicate my newfound technique. With the faster speed and variations due to playing a real person, there were just too many variables. In between, I had a short session with the robot, where I figured out the new technique better. It wasn't just that my racket angle was staying stable, it's that my forearm/wrist snap is focused on brushing upwards, while the forward momentum is generated almost entirely by my body and shoulder.

Today's practice went much, much better. I was able to execute the hip rotation, full activation sequence, and the new technique. The resulting shot has much better topspin, and much less sidespin. With my elbow/wrist not involved in forward momentum, it was very important for the momentum of the rest of my body to be going forward at the point of contact, or else the ball will not dig into the racket and simply drop into the net.

My BH drive is getting better each practice. Last practice I was finally able to string together a few BH loop drives in a row, today was the first time I was able to execute the BH drive against backspin while practicing against a real person. I'm still struggling a bit when I'm attacked, however. I can block the opponent's opening loop fairly well on the BH side, I can even counter it reasonably well, but then I would tank the next shot into the net as I fail to adjust to the less spin of the second shot.

As quickly as I feel like I'm improving, my partner is improving even faster. His BH opening loop and his BH drive vs. topspin are rapidly catching up to mine, and today for the first time he was able to counter back my full powered BH counters (the BH "tear"). We were hitting them back and forth at times with such great speed and spin that it felt like a pro match! One thing we both had trouble with was returning the first full powered BH counter/loop. We had to make the first shot with less power at first, but eventually I was able to counter his full powered opening. The key there was to stay low and move for the shot. You can get away with being a bit lazy against less quality shots, but not when shots are that fast and spinny.
 
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After that last post I've had 2 practice sessions with my practice partner. The first one was a mess for my FH. I seemed to unable to replicate my newfound technique. With the faster speed and variations due to playing a real person, there were just too many variables. In between, I had a short session with the robot, where I figured out the new technique better. It wasn't just that my racket angle was staying stable, it's that my forearm/wrist snap is focused on brushing upwards, while the forward momentum is generated almost entirely by my body and shoulder.

Today's practice went much, much better. I was able to execute the hip rotation, full activation sequence, and the new technique. The resulting shot has much better topspin, and much less sidespin. With my elbow/wrist not involved in forward momentum, it was very important for the momentum of the rest of my body to be going forward at the point of contact, or else the ball will not dig into the racket and simply drop into the net.

My BH drive is getting better each practice. Last practice I was finally able to string together a few BH loop drives in a row, today was the first time I was able to execute the BH drive against backspin while practicing against a real person. I'm still struggling a bit when I'm attacked, however. I can block the opponent's opening loop fairly well on the BH side, I can even counter it reasonably well, but then I would tank the next shot into the net as I fail to adjust to the less spin of the second shot.

As quickly as I feel like I'm improving, my partner is improving even faster. His BH opening loop and his BH drive vs. topspin are rapidly catching up to mine, and today for the first time he was able to counter back my full powered BH counters (the BH "tear"). We were hitting them back and forth at times with such great speed and spin that it felt like a pro match! One thing we both had trouble with was returning the first full powered BH counter/loop. We had to make the first shot with less power at first, but eventually I was able to counter his full powered opening. The key there was to stay low and move for the shot. You can get away with being a bit lazy against less quality shots, but not when shots are that fast and spinny.
 
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That is EXACTLY the change I've been making! I used to try to hit into the blade using an open racket, and then close down over it. The process inevitably introduces a ton of sidespin. That's not the main issue, however, as the main issue comes when I try to use that stroke as a basis for all topspin strokes. When a ball is higher, this stroke has a tendency of entirely missing the ball, and due to the sideways motion/spin generated by the relatively unstable elbow/wrist joints, controlling the direction of the shot is difficult. It's still an useful shot so I'm keeping still gonna use it, especially when dealing with very heavy topspin as it hits the side of the ball thus avoiding the heaviest part of the spin, or to redirect the ball to the left when I'm not in the optimal position (when we reach to the right to hit a ball we all introduce a good amount of sidespin).

With the new stroke, however, controlling the location of the shot becomes far easier, the spin is heavier, and contact is more secure. It's more generalizable in game play in general and already, in the first session where I finally have a feel for it, I feel the consistency is improved throughout the power range.
 
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4:0 in singles with SP so far.
Likely to be 6:0 next week.

I go for a spinny 3rd FH loop and win most points like that.
No more backhand rally weakness and overall more safety in pushing / blocking.

Chopping technique is still in development, but neither my opponents or teammates were good enough to challenge me there.

My forehand technique has also improved with a slower racket - more forward movement instead of purely upward.
Similar to how you describe it here and in the video, although not quite the same:
That is EXACTLY the change I've been making! I used to try to hit into the blade using an open racket, and then close down over it. The process inevitably introduces a ton of sidespin. That's not the main issue, however, as the main issue comes when I try to use that stroke as a basis for all topspin strokes. When a ball is higher, this stroke has a tendency of entirely missing the ball, and due to the sideways motion/spin generated by the relatively unstable elbow/wrist joints, controlling the direction of the shot is difficult. It's still an useful shot so I'm keeping still gonna use it, especially when dealing with very heavy topspin as it hits the side of the ball thus avoiding the heaviest part of the spin, or to redirect the ball to the left when I'm not in the optimal position (when we reach to the right to hit a ball we all introduce a good amount of sidespin).

With the new stroke, however, controlling the location of the shot becomes far easier, the spin is heavier, and contact is more secure. It's more generalizable in game play in general and already, in the first session where I finally have a feel for it, I feel the consistency is improved throughout the power range.

Another thing I changed in recent times:
I go for less pendulum serves to BH and focus more on short/half long forehand serves.

A mix of hook serve / no spin / underspin short / half long to opponents forehand and I have been significantly more successfully with it.
 
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My new stroke is now fairly good, at least in practice. Consistent, powerful, more topspin and less sidespin. I'm still tinkering with the weight transfer though. I have tried a straight right to left weight transfer, that didn't work due to a lack of rotation. I then tried adding rotation but turned out I was only rotating at my waist and not my hip. Then I tried to fix that by really flexing my right hip (and kick out my left hip) on backswing, but I noticed whenever I tried to add power my right foot would step forward whereas the pros would have both feet at the same spot.

I think I've finally figured out the issue. The problem is that my rotation was pivoting around my left foot, which forms the largest possible circle with my motion and add power, but obviously also affects recovery as my right foot steps forward. Instead, I need to pivot around the center of my body, and start with my right leg/glute driving my hip rotation.

I think my form is finally getting there. I was able to execute my new form in single point practice with all the elements fairly consistently today. If I can keep that level next practice, I'll move on to multipoint, and then FH/BH alternating shots, then random full table to cement it into my muscle memory.
 
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Playing at the NA teams, hoping to see as many of you as possible.

Playing on a team of 5 as the 4th ranked players, therefore i sat out the matches most important for our seeding. I played the matches that we were very unlikely to win, and therefore only played 2200+ opposition in 3 singles matches across 2 teams matches and managed to win one game off a young lefty at 11-9, but got convincing lambasted in most of the other games.

Tomorrow should begin the team round robins and I should face more opponents closer to my Playing level and give them hell.
 
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G.O.A.T.(s) from different generation.
 
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Playing at the NA teams, hoping to see as many of you as possible.

Playing on a team of 5 as the 4th ranked players, therefore i sat out the matches most important for our seeding. I played the matches that we were very unlikely to win, and therefore only played 2200+ opposition in 3 singles matches across 2 teams matches and managed to win one game off a young lefty at 11-9, but got convincing lambasted in most of the other games.

Tomorrow should begin the team round robins and I should face more opponents closer to my Playing level and give them hell.
Waiting for your match against Adam Bobrow
 
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Question: when people say a rubber has low arc or high arc, isn't that just a function of the rubbers throw angle and its' ability to generate spin? If we're ruling out the blades effect here.

I think saying "rubber has low arc" is the same as saying it has "low throw angle"... Let's say we speak about BH, put simply, with rubber which has "low throw angle" it may feel harder to open against backspin, but it may feel easier to block opponents top-spin. It's a bit like a trade-off... All things being equal, the low throw angle is usually due to more densely packed pimples, e.g. T19 would have lower throw angle than T05 (or say Rakza X (lower throw) vs Rakza 7)... Still T19 can generate huge spin... Or say Rakza Z, people say it has very high throw angle, yet I personally don't think it generates higher spin for me than say Rakza 7... So people feel it differently, and also note it depends on the sponge hardness and on the stroke - e.g. with harder stroke, the rubber with soft sponge may feel lower throw - more direct (people say it bottoms out) than the same rubber with harder sponge... Cheers.
 
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Question: when people say a rubber has low arc or high arc, isn't that just a function of the rubbers throw angle and its' ability to generate spin? If we're ruling out the blades effect here.
Der_Echte's interpretation of this is how easy or the tendency of the rubber (and blade) to have a resultant trajectory from the same swing/stroke/grip vs the same incoming ball.

Some rubbers and blades are real easy to make the ball rebound at a higher or lower angle.

The two main trajectories are LOW and HIGH

LOW is generally associated with a resultant rebound of a low angle and the ball travels faster, lower to net, and goes deeper before landing. (Usually near end line. This is what many call "penetration" and is desired by many.

Back in the day, I think it was BTY Ekrips and from the same era, Nittaku Hammond, such rubbers were purposely engineered to provide a lower rebound, or make it easier to do that... so that if you have incoming topspin... you open the bat and hit through the ball on the rise net height or a little lower and drive through... result was a very quick shot... with pace and spin... ball travels low and lands deep.

Such a shot was very devastating... some players centered their counterhitting game around this. A more modern low throw rubber was Stiga Calibra.

HIGH throw rubbers were associated with rubbers (and the blade) to easily produce high arcing and spinny "safe" topspins... now these "safe" shots were very aggressive shots... the ball went higher, had good pace (but a little less than the loop drivers' shots) and would dip suddenly and earlier than the low throw rubbers' shots.

BTY T05 and T05X were the poster children for this... but honestly, most modern soft sponge high spin rubbers were in the high throw category.

Ironically, an elite amateur player tried my setup (Donic PPP with T05FX FH and Aurus Soft BH) and quickly declared it to be a extreme LOW THROW setup.

I found it hilarious he would judge my setup to be so... it has high throw written all over it... and Der_Echte spins first and asks questions later... high throw is friendly to me.

Turns out he made that opinion from my serves staying low and his serves/returns being low.

Go figure.
 
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So the hell began this morning as I woke up to find out that we were to face a team full of NY players Inused to play against in East Coast tournaments when I lived in Philly. I was scheduled to face their ace in the very first match, a fellow countryman from the land of Nigeria. His game is more traditional Nigerian than mine, fierce forehand, blocking backhand. We had played once a few years ago (definitely over 5, more likely closer to 10) and I won a close match 3-2. I came in late from my hotel so I wasn't really warmed up but you don't choose to be ready to fight on your own terms exclusively so...

The first game was a mess... I kept looping his sidespin serves off rht table with my backhand, I pushed pop-ups which he killed with his forehand, and struggled to stay in points after he opened. Obviously I wasn't warmed up so I accepted the result and felt it should get better as the match went on and his rating anyways was 100pts over mine so not a big deal to lose. In game 2, I started out much better, using the information from game 1 to select better serves and play better points. I was up 8-4 at a point and got to 10-6. Then 10-7. 10-8. 10-9. Damn. I have to use my timeout. The 10-9 point was frustrating too, I set up the point but his pushes didn't come long enough so I had to loop over the table but it was too weak and blocked it easily for a winner. I spoke to my teammates and they stressed to me that I was in it, I have to just place my balls better and let the game come to me, that my trying to press too hard was costing me points. So the game resumes, I loop the return long for deuce. We trade game points and then I lose the game 12-14. Life sucks sometimes.

But there is game 3. I fight to hang in there with the mix of stupid errors and good serves. I think I am going to find some cash and send it to Mr Bryant because I am now convinced that my serves are still the strongest part of my game as crazy as that may sound. But more on this later.

I get to 8-10 down 2 match points. I serve backhand topspin the first one and at this point he is smart enough not to push and rolls the ball but I attack the next shot with my backhand and win the point. I sece the next point as he topspins the ball off the table. Now, my Harimoto and Ma Long practice is in full gear as I am trying to keep my head in the game celebrating every point. A rally with me up 13-12 ans I managed to counter a ball into my forehand into his wide forehand and I am able to keep my winning chances on life support!

To avoid making this post too long, I will cut the long story short and say that I came back to win this match. This comeback is a good example of when you might be arguably a worse player but your balanced game manages to keep you in there against a better player with an overwhelming strength, but whose game you can find elements to match up with. No way in hell I make this comeback without my serves and my backhand topspin.

The next match was against a chopper who i won the first couple of matches i played against him and then went on to lose and struggle ever since as he found ways to vary spin that kept me puzzled. I went up 2-0 with some powerful looping. All of a sudden, I started facing heavier chops, but even worse, some very consistent spinny attacking whose tempo i struggled to adjust to
A 2-0 lead quickly became a 2-2 tie and I was on the back foot as my shoulder issues returned when I chased wide forehands. I used my resistance bands to stretch in the intermission but it didn't make a huge difference as I went down 10-4. Then 10-5. Then 10-6. Then 10-7. He called a timeout. But no, 10-8, 10-9, Deuce!

And then out of nowhere, I get match point! And he floats the ball long and it seems to be coming off the table and it lands on the white line on my forehand side, and in shock I try to topspin it and it goes long. Deuce. Then I try to attack and get a great opportunity and end up relooping the block long off the table. And again, he sneaks a floating chop to my forehand I forget and loop the ball off the table on match point. You can't steal them all lol...

The match I won was the only one my team won and we lost the first match 1-5.

The next match was against an amateur team sponsored by one of the major consulting companies in the USA. I had played one of their players last year and got soundly beaten, though they had a lower label lady playing with them as well last year who I beat easily. This year, they had one long pips playing lady and two topspin players. The player who beat me last year sat out of the match (he knew i wanted revenge, but I suspect in reality, they felt with their aces , they would beat us regardless). In the firat match, I got the team captain and honestly, I thought he was rated 1400 based on how the first game went. I think I won 11-3 or something like that. Then he served this hook serve into the forehand and when I pushed it to his backhand, he had the most physics defying loop kills to the forehand that I can remember playing against in table tennis. A down the line hook that used the sidespin of the serve to and the stroke to bend away from you down the line. But for whatever reason he wasn't able to completely maintain this magic and lost the second game 11-7. I am still thinking he must be 1600 lol. He won the third game at 9 or deuce or something like that but i brought back my backhand topspin in final form and won the last game comfortably.

Next I got to play the pips lady. The pips lady was SP forehand, LP backhand. But she made one big mistake lol....she used Grass D Tecs! Grass D Tecs was the most popular LP amongst the LP experts at my club in Philly so I played against it so much that I almost play against it like inverted lol. I just sefve to the pips and if you do not do something serious, you are getting a topspin barrage coming your way. And of course I know how to serve heavy enough backspin that most Grass D Tecs users are puzzled by the phenomenon of pushing the ball into the net repeatedly. I think she has a brief lead in game 3 but lost like 8 straight points after that to keep it uninteresting and I think the score combined with the attacking barrage just didn't make her try when my technique fell apart and i just started patting the ball back.

Then I played their team ace. He had beaten everyone else comfortably and his game looked reasonably athletic so I didn't really feel I had a chance. But you have to adapt the right attitude and probe. One of his strengths was playing really slow balls and he messed up my timing in the first two games. Then I adapted to that timing in game 3. Then he switched to a more regular timing in game 4 and that was it. I suspect he is playing with old dead Tenergy at regardless ones job is to put the ball on the table and I failed. Oh, and the guy I thought was 1400 was really 2000, got sharper as the day went on and beat both my teammates. Great. We lost that that match 3-5.

On to another match against a team that was all pips players and which again had 2000 pips lady. I got to play my first match against that team vs guy who had a Joo Se Hyuk blade with T64 forehand and Grass D Tecs... cut a long story short, my teammates beat his teammates and I beat him 3-0 and we had our first team match win 5-0.

Then we had a long break till our evening match. We were playing 3 looping teenagers, one was from Texas, a lefty I had never beaten in a tournament match. The other two I think were from NY. I played their team captain and #3 player from NY first. I was moving and counterlooping and blocking really well and managed to go up 2-0. I even got a match point at 10-9 and the opponents called a timeout
... I lost that game 14-12, but managed to win the roller coaster of the 4th game 11-9.

Next was a match against the other junior from NY. He had played one of my teammates already and he had a massive forehand. I think i lost the first game despite being up 9-7 by going for too much repeatedly. That said there was one takeaway that I could used to dictate the match battle ground. He couldn't flip my backspin serve and complained audibly about how heavy it was. And it became a joke of sorts the number of times he put it in the net so he had to reluctantly push and embraced doing so after I won the second game and got decent results. He won the third game when I tried to bait him with with no spin serve which he read and flipped appropriately. I suspect his Texas teammate gave him good intel on that one lol. I managed to win a close game 4 11-9. Unfortunately his forehand was too good in the 5th. I lost that one going away as I failed to do enough to keep him from looping.

So that was my day in a nutshell 4 wins. 3 losses. Highest win 2012, lowest win 1860 or something, highest loss 2067, lowest loss 1948. Will play more tomorrow and see how it goes. Have a good night ladies and gentlemen!
 
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Question: when people say a rubber has low arc or high arc, isn't that just a function of the rubbers throw angle and its' ability to generate spin? If we're ruling out the blades effect here.
Speed vs Spin.
Speed > Spin = lower angle
Speed < Spin = higher angle

Cheers
L-zr
 
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