Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[dingyibvs]

How do you define a more difficult equipment?

I have two blades left as of now. One is Premier XR, 5+2 with White Ash outer ply. The other is Loki K5, a 5 ply all-wood blade. In your opinion which one is more difficult blade between these two?

Loki K5 with STN and G1. Premier XR with G1 on both sides.

Say, blade. Which one is more difficult between outer-carbon or inner-carbon? Or stiff blade like Mazunov? Which one is more difficult between flexy blade or a stiff one?

Rubber, top line rubbers are they easy or difficult? Which one is easier to use Dignics family or Yinhe Mercury or H3?

How easy is it for you to generate the feeling I mentioned, the feeling of hitting into the rubber and the blade then slinging the ball forward, especially against a low energy incoming ball? I haven't used those blades so I wouldn't know, but I've used enough to know it's not as simple as inner vs outer or what the composition is. For the rubbers H3 is significantly more difficult to use than D09c, which significantly more difficult to use than T05. Those 3 rubbers I used for years.

I should add that my opinion on the advantages of using harder to use equipment is not absolute. When practicing you need reps as well, and using equipment that's much harder to use than your level means you'll be picking up the ball all the time which is of course not conducive to quick learning.

 

[banbekas]

How easy is it for you to generate the feeling I mentioned, the feeling of hitting into the rubber and the blade then slinging the ball forward, especially against a low energy incoming ball? I haven't used those blades so I wouldn't know, but I've used enough to know it's not as simple as inner vs outer or what the composition is. For the rubbers H3 is significantly more difficult to use than D09c, which significantly more difficult to use than T05. Those 3 rubbers I used for years.

I should add that my opinion on the advantages of using harder to use equipment is not absolute. When practicing you need reps as well, and using equipment that's much harder to use than your level means you'll be picking up the ball all the time which is of course not conducive to quick learning.

For me, it's easier to feel it in Premier XR but 5 ply blade like Loki K5 is easier to loop with.

I can feel the ball better with H3 than with G1. Can't feel anything from Tenergy.

What do you think?

 

[dingyibvs]

For me, it's easier to feel it in Premier XR but 5 ply blade like Loki K5 is easier to loop with.

I can feel the ball better with H3 than with G1. Can't feel anything from Tenergy.

What do you think?

What do you mean by feel the ball? It's more than just about feeling the ball, it's about feeling the slinging of the ball. Tenergy also make a really nice sound when you loop into it, do you hear it? If you just take a ball and just smack it with your racket, you should hear a cracking sound from most blades and feel it bend. Do you get that when you loop, at least in training?

 

[Tyce]

I'm starting to realize I keep going back and forth between two different types of playing, and it's making a mess out of my equipment choices, which in turn spirals back to me having doubts about my playstyle again etc. etc.

On one hand, I want to make big swings, play massive curveballs from two, three steps behind the table and overwhelm my opponent using my impressive looking FH and BH loops.

On the other hand, I want to stay close to the table and use my fast wits, reflexes and touch game quality to outplay my opponent or make them outplay themselves.

I keep going between wanting slower gear to make my big swing game less error prone and getting easier solid sponge contact, and wanting faster gear to help me switch up from touch to lightning speed as quickly as possible.

For me, that kind of translates to this. I'm currently using Innerforce Layer ALC with G-1 FH and C-1 BH.

To slow things down so I can rip better balls with a big swing, I would consider going to a Primorac (wood), and probably keeping the same rubbers.

To speed things up but staying close to the table, I would consider getting a Viscaria, and changing my FH to H3 Neo, with G-1 on BH or something better for me in the touch game.

I know I would like the feeling of both options. I love the ALC feeling, and I've tested all the blades and rubbers at some point. My problem honestly isn't about how my current setup is good for either style, it's about this setup not forcing me to pick a style and sticking with it. It's too allround if anything, and as a result I'm loving things one day but hating it the next. I am literally going between being unable to engage the G-1 and feeling like it's too slow. And when I use H3 on the same blade I go between having the most fantastic, super spinny balls and not even making the net the next day. It's just outright frustrating and confusing, and I'm thinking it has to do with sticking to a style and position.

I'm leaning most towards sticking closer to the table, it feels like the option with less unforced errors.

That being said, do you think it makes sense to pick something that forces me to play a certain specific style?

 

[Der_Echte]

I'm starting to realize I keep going back and forth between two different types of playing, and it's making a mess out of my equipment choices, which in turn spirals back to me having doubts about my playstyle again etc. etc.

On one hand, I want to make big swings, play massive curveballs from two, three steps behind the table and overwhelm my opponent using my impressive looking FH and BH loops.

On the other hand, I want to stay close to the table and use my fast wits, reflexes and touch game quality to outplay my opponent or make them outplay themselves.

I keep going between wanting slower gear to make my big swing game less error prone and getting easier solid sponge contact, and wanting faster gear to help me switch up from touch to lightning speed as quickly as possible.

For me, that kind of translates to this. I'm currently using Innerforce Layer ALC with G-1 FH and C-1 BH.

To slow things down so I can rip better balls with a big swing, I would consider going to a Primorac (wood), and probably keeping the same rubbers.

To speed things up but staying close to the table, I would consider getting a Viscaria, and changing my FH to H3 Neo, with G-1 on BH or something better for me in the touch game.

I know I would like the feeling of both options. I love the ALC feeling, and I've tested all the blades and rubbers at some point. My problem honestly isn't about how my current setup is good for either style, it's about this setup not forcing me to pick a style and sticking with it. It's too allround if anything, and as a result I'm loving things one day but hating it the next. I am literally going between being unable to engage the G-1 and feeling like it's too slow. And when I use H3 on the same blade I go between having the most fantastic, super spinny balls and not even making the net the next day. It's just outright frustrating and confusing, and I'm thinking it has to do with sticking to a style and position.

I'm leaning most towards sticking closer to the table, it feels like the option with less unforced errors.

That being said, do you think it makes sense to pick something that forces me to play a certain specific style?

Hi Tyce... I am around a lot of adult learners who like the fun of banging the ball with very fast ALC or straight carbon blades... and that blade will make it easy to do that shot... but ultimately, the player is not doing that shot 100% of the time... or even 50% or even 20%... the middle shots and first offensive shot make up 80% plus of these players shots...

There are always tradeoffs with equipment, in the case of the fast fast stuff, too much trade of in the area of shots done more frequently.

One would be surprised at how fast one can BANG that ball at the table vs an incoming topspin ball... the All+ to OFF minus blades have a real super-power in this area... you can hit harder (with compact stroke and timing of the firming of grip... and it is also easier to open heavy and slow... or medium and heavy... or fast loop with a good grip timing... and still do fine on the non-attacking middle shots.

Ultimately, you decide, but I have seen hundreds of players immediately same day play better match play gearing down to a blade with feel and only moderate overall speed (which is deceptive as you can actually hit faster shots with these blades with the right impact, timing, and compact swing with leverage)

 

[Der_Echte]

Having said that, after I play 6 months or more with a slower blade, I can pick up faster blade with same rubbers and do just as well or even more destructive... it is like the blade trained me better with what i was already doing.

So, I can understand some back and forth.

My current blade in my sig I have used 2 yrs straight in comps and even had my best US Open performance of my entire life using that setup.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm starting to realize I keep going back and forth between two different types of playing, and it's making a mess out of my equipment choices, which in turn spirals back to me having doubts about my playstyle again etc. etc.

On one hand, I want to make big swings, play massive curveballs from two, three steps behind the table and overwhelm my opponent using my impressive looking FH and BH loops.

On the other hand, I want to stay close to the table and use my fast wits, reflexes and touch game quality to outplay my opponent or make them outplay themselves.

I keep going between wanting slower gear to make my big swing game less error prone and getting easier solid sponge contact, and wanting faster gear to help me switch up from touch to lightning speed as quickly as possible.

For me, that kind of translates to this. I'm currently using Innerforce Layer ALC with G-1 FH and C-1 BH.

To slow things down so I can rip better balls with a big swing, I would consider going to a Primorac (wood), and probably keeping the same rubbers.

To speed things up but staying close to the table, I would consider getting a Viscaria, and changing my FH to H3 Neo, with G-1 on BH or something better for me in the touch game.

I know I would like the feeling of both options. I love the ALC feeling, and I've tested all the blades and rubbers at some point. My problem honestly isn't about how my current setup is good for either style, it's about this setup not forcing me to pick a style and sticking with it. It's too allround if anything, and as a result I'm loving things one day but hating it the next. I am literally going between being unable to engage the G-1 and feeling like it's too slow. And when I use H3 on the same blade I go between having the most fantastic, super spinny balls and not even making the net the next day. It's just outright frustrating and confusing, and I'm thinking it has to do with sticking to a style and position.

I'm leaning most towards sticking closer to the table, it feels like the option with less unforced errors.

That being said, do you think it makes sense to pick something that forces me to play a certain specific style?

The usual advice is to pick the fastest blade you can control lol. I think ultimately, you have to decide you cannot win points every way and figure out where the tradeoffs are. Every style has limitations somewhere, especially over the course of a tournament.

 

[Tyce]

I think at this point it's more about what to use so I can stick to one style easier and thus improve that style, rather than the continuous back and forth of chaotic things I'm doing right now.
Having a proverbial stick that punishes me for doing bad habits might be more helpful than using something that I can do anything with. It's a weird idea maybe, but I'm a weird guy

 

[dingyibvs]

I'm starting to realize I keep going back and forth between two different types of playing, and it's making a mess out of my equipment choices, which in turn spirals back to me having doubts about my playstyle again etc. etc.

On one hand, I want to make big swings, play massive curveballs from two, three steps behind the table and overwhelm my opponent using my impressive looking FH and BH loops.

On the other hand, I want to stay close to the table and use my fast wits, reflexes and touch game quality to outplay my opponent or make them outplay themselves.

I keep going between wanting slower gear to make my big swing game less error prone and getting easier solid sponge contact, and wanting faster gear to help me switch up from touch to lightning speed as quickly as possible.

For me, that kind of translates to this. I'm currently using Innerforce Layer ALC with G-1 FH and C-1 BH.

To slow things down so I can rip better balls with a big swing, I would consider going to a Primorac (wood), and probably keeping the same rubbers.

To speed things up but staying close to the table, I would consider getting a Viscaria, and changing my FH to H3 Neo, with G-1 on BH or something better for me in the touch game.

I know I would like the feeling of both options. I love the ALC feeling, and I've tested all the blades and rubbers at some point. My problem honestly isn't about how my current setup is good for either style, it's about this setup not forcing me to pick a style and sticking with it. It's too allround if anything, and as a result I'm loving things one day but hating it the next. I am literally going between being unable to engage the G-1 and feeling like it's too slow. And when I use H3 on the same blade I go between having the most fantastic, super spinny balls and not even making the net the next day. It's just outright frustrating and confusing, and I'm thinking it has to do with sticking to a style and position.

I'm leaning most towards sticking closer to the table, it feels like the option with less unforced errors.

That being said, do you think it makes sense to pick something that forces me to play a certain specific style?

All equipment have tradeoffs, there's no way around it. Best thing to do is to focus on yourself, figure out what your preferences are. It sounds like you don't really know that yet. You're not gonna solve the equipment question until you understand yourself better first.

 

[Tyce]

All equipment have tradeoffs, there's no way around it. Best thing to do is to focus on yourself, figure out what your preferences are. It sounds like you don't really know that yet. You're not gonna solve the equipment question until you understand yourself better first.

Heh well that's a lifetime quest 😂 and if there is one thing I know about myself is I have a really hard time trusting my own decisions.

 

[latej]

Heh well that's a lifetime quest 😂 and if there is one thing I know about myself is I have a really hard time trusting my own decisions.

We're getting into Goedel's recursive territory here...

Just flip it one more time and all shots are on ;-)

 

[NextLevel]

I think at this point it's more about what to use so I can stick to one style easier and thus improve that style, rather than the continuous back and forth of chaotic things I'm doing right now.
Having a proverbial stick that punishes me for doing bad habits might be more helpful than using something that I can do anything with. It's a weird idea maybe, but I'm a weird guy

For people with ADHD type features/brains, commitment devices even to the degree they are limited in effectiveness are the only way. Just figure out something that forces you to accept the commitment. Raise the costs of switching artificially. Otherwise the grass always looks greener on the other side.

 

[Tyce]

For people with ADHD type features/brains, commitment devices even to the degree they are limited in effectiveness are the only way. Just figure out something that forces you to accept the commitment. Raise the costs of switching artificially. Otherwise the grass always looks greener on the other side.

How'd you guess? (autism, very recently diagnosed)
I do manage to only bring my main bat nowadays, which is a big step in the equipment section. Got rid of a bunch I didn't realistically want to use in matches, which is a great step too.
I actually take the car to training rather than cycling so I don't drink too much on a weeknight. Stuff like that just works.

I have locked myself in on Butterfly blades, because their feeling profile just resonates with me. My last non Butterfly purchase (Ma Lin Carbon) is a great blade but it still feels off. I intend to sell that.

So far so good. I will test more consciously if I can stick to the table while using my current setup. I know that's where I can be most effective.

 

[NextLevel]

How'd you guess? (autism, very recently diagnosed)
I do manage to only bring my main bat nowadays, which is a big step in the equipment section. Got rid of a bunch I didn't realistically want to use in matches, which is a great step too.
I actually take the car to training rather than cycling so I don't drink too much on a weeknight. Stuff like that just works.

I have locked myself in on Butterfly blades, because their feeling profile just resonates with me. My last non Butterfly purchase (Ma Lin Carbon) is a great blade but it still feels off. I intend to sell that.

So far so good. I will test more consciously if I can stick to the table while using my current setup. I know that's where I can be most effective.

Just about all of us who play and frequent web boards repeatedly likely are. Takes one to know one lol.

The main reason why I still try different equipment is the quest to beat better players. But I am realizing that the barriers are still people figuring out my exploitable limitations. And covering those is not about equipment in my specific case. I think I am closer to peace with it.

 

[Tyce]

Hell, I am on a real journey right now, and I am *this* close to grabbing my 25yo trusty blade for a league match tonight. But that would be silly because I haven't played with it in months. Perhaps the better question would be what feeling I'm looking to get out of that, and the more I let these things sink in, the closer I get to a game style.

I have always loved the nimble, maneuverable nature of my old blade. I enjoy playing chess over the table, short, long, push, flip, drive, sidespin, and switch the pace with a bat that moves as fast as my hand does. And as satisfying as it can be to whip out some sick looping balls from mid distance, it's not a staple of my game, because I just don't have much of a plan for what's next. Usually, when one of those comes back, I just block and start the chess game all over again

Also, when I think about those moments when I switch to mental "kill mode", this is exactly the game I play in those moments. I don't waste energy on big attacks, I will take your ball and feed it right back at you until you give up. I don't care about your attacks, I will make sure they won't work and I will destroy you just like that.

So I guess I have my playstyle. Now I gotta figure out if I'm using the right stuff for it.

 

[NextLevel]

Hell, I am on a real journey right now, and I am *this* close to grabbing my 25yo trusty blade for a league match tonight. But that would be silly because I haven't played with it in months. Perhaps the better question would be what feeling I'm looking to get out of that, and the more I let these things sink in, the closer I get to a game style.

I have always loved the nimble, maneuverable nature of my old blade. I enjoy playing chess over the table, short, long, push, flip, drive, sidespin, and switch the pace with a bat that moves as fast as my hand does. And as satisfying as it can be to whip out some sick looping balls from mid distance, it's not a staple of my game, because I just don't have much of a plan for what's next. Usually, when one of those comes back, I just block and start the chess game all over again

Also, when I think about those moments when I switch to mental "kill mode", this is exactly the game I play in those moments. I don't waste energy on big attacks, I will take your ball and feed it right back at you until you give up. I don't care about your attacks, I will make sure they won't work and I will destroy you just like that.

So I guess I have my playstyle. Now I gotta figure out if I'm using the right stuff for it.

What is your estimated German TTR/USATT broadly? Trying to put your post in context as well as separate the issues of playing style and strategic/tactical mindset?

 

[Tyce]

What is your estimated German TTR/USATT broadly? Trying to put your post in context as well as separate the issues of playing style and strategic/tactical mindset?

Very broadly, I would probably be around the 1600 USATT mark judging from the Looeelooee video on ratings. I have been playing in a club 1997-2010 and 2024-now. I have been in the top ratings for my league level since rejoining but we just haven't managed to promote yet. That would easily jump up the numbers by 50 points in a season, probably more. But until then I have to keep fighting to not lose major points.

With a more stable playstyle I think 1800 USATT is a fair milestone for the next year. From there, who knows, that's uncharted territory to me.

 

[NextLevel]

Very broadly, I would probably be around the 1600 USATT mark judging from the Looeelooee video on ratings. I have been playing in a club 1997-2010 and 2024-now. I have been in the top ratings for my league level since rejoining but we just haven't managed to promote yet. That would easily jump up the numbers by 50 points in a season, probably more. But until then I have to keep fighting to not lose major points.

With a more stable playstyle I think 1800 USATT is a fair milestone for the next year. From there, who knows, that's uncharted territory to me.

Thanks. The main reason I ask is that the options one has for playing stronger opponents tend to narrow as the speed and spin of the game increases. So it is always important to put style in context.

People see my game and call it extremely aggressive. But they don't realize it is really conservative, the main thing I do is try to open on anything that comes long because I don't back off the table so I don't trust my defense to hold the point if I don't take control of it. But internally, my style is largely conservative on the risk and reward spectrum. Most of my play is tied to how I have trained and the patterns I have developed for winning points.

I also prefer to use things other than looping hard to win points. But as you face players who are more and more disciplined about playing a topspin once the ball provides the opportunity, it gets harder and harder to use other things unless you have a system that has a way of forcing that on them.

So I think internal approach has to be separated from the external manifestation. How you play is just a tool to an end.

 

[dingyibvs]

So, I think my current BH technique may just be good now? After incorporating everything in my previous post over the past few days, my BH is feeling just fantastic! Even on softer shots I'm getting the feeling of solid contact and a bit of hold-and-shoot with the ball, and I can actually string together a few BH loops in a row, all with the feel of hitting into the blade/sponge and slinging the ball to my opponent!

On Monday I had a solid BH practice session at the club before playing some matches. The first couple sets I simply could not miss with my BH, my opponent was shocked at the consistency and quality. However, that was with me focusing entirely on my BH side, and once I (and my opponent) realized that I was never ready to use my FH things started to regress. But that's OK, with more practice I probably wouldn't have to focus 100% on the BH.

Then next day I had a training session in my garage with my usual training partner. He's been away from TT for ~6 months, but didn't seem to lose any feel for the ball. I focused further on the BH that session, and made significantly more progress. I experimented a bunch to find out the optimal mix of hitting vs brushing against various types of balls, and I think I'm getting a better feel of what shot to use in what situation. Last night I did some training against the robot, with the aim of applying these things to loops vs. backspin. I think I made some good progress there too.

Today I'll have a coaching session, see what the coach says about it. If everything works out well, then I would've completed my FH/BH basic technique transformation, and next I'll be working on mixing the two and improving consistency.

 

[M51]

Does anyone here by any chance have old catalogues from legacy brands like Butterfly or Tibhar?

Any PDF's, perhaps? I'm getting a bit nostalgic.

I plan to ask around, some of the older table tennis people in my area must have kept some stuff around. If I get my hands on something interesting, I'll scan it.