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says what [IMG]
says what [IMG]
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The interesting question is, do they have to go all out on every ball, and if so, why?
- is their technique not refined enough to make controlled, high spin contact?
- is their equipment inappropriate for good, high spin (friction) contact?
(Or both, of course)
It's not unusual to have people swinging for the bloody ropes just because that's the only way they can get their rubber functioning properly and retain any form of control over the ball. I honestly think I'm guilty of this exact thing.
I think it's just a shot choice thing. They're able to make high quality shots, but that's all they go for.
 
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often it is also about prefered ball height and curve. I remember myself looping very high balls by letting them fall quite a bit until they reached my shoulder level so i could powerloop them, simply because i was incapable of smashing them at higher heights.
 
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Just had a training session last night with my regular training partner. Feels like I'm making some sort of breakthrough with this forward lean, it's like a simple but major piece of missing puzzle, especially for my FH. I've added a bit of additional tweak to my backswing as well. My coach told me to make my knee face a bit more to my right side during the backswing, and this allows me to put a bit more weight on my right foot, shifting my center of gravity a bit more to the right. During the forward swing the combination of the forward lean (it's really the butt sticking further back) and the weight on my right foot really allows my right leg/butt to drive the shot forward. Now I feel like my form is basically complete, maybe just some minor tweaks here and there.

On the BH side, it really creates a lot more room for backswing, but the more significant changes IMO were keeping the racket head pointed higher and also keeping the racket higher in general. This synergizes very well with the forward lean, although I had trouble achieving consistency once the pace increased, as the ball coming back becomes way faster. I think going forward I need to develop the ability to judge each ball individually and shorten the reloop action when necessary.

Here's a clip of my FH forms over the past few months. My work has been mostly on BH, but you can still see some changes. In the first section in April, I realized that I was rotating my body through the ball. This causes over-rotation of the body, resulting in slower recovery. By the August video I had addressed that to some extent by transferring energy to the arm at contact, thus reducing the magnitude and duration of body rotation without reducing quality of the shot. The last clip is from yesterday, when I managed to incorporate the forward lean and the increased weight on my right foot during the backswing.

Looking at the videos, I can see why my coaches didn't tell me to increase my forward lean. It's actually pretty hard to see from the frontal angle. I also didn't realize how straight my stance was until I watched my Oakland tournament videos, some of which were recorded from the side angle. It might also have something to do with my bad posture, which is usually a bit kyphotic, with a bit of a bend at the lumbar spine, so it looks like I'm leaning forward. But what's important is to lean forward at the hip and not at the lower back. What my coaches have been telling me instead was to loop more forward, which always felt a bit awkward. Turns out after I started leaning forward, my stroke naturally became more forward going.

 
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Just had a training session last night with my regular training partner. Feels like I'm making some sort of breakthrough with this forward lean, it's like a simple but major piece of missing puzzle, especially for my FH. I've added a bit of additional tweak to my backswing as well. My coach told me to make my knee face a bit more to my right side during the backswing, and this allows me to put a bit more weight on my right foot, shifting my center of gravity a bit more to the right. During the forward swing the combination of the forward lean (it's really the butt sticking further back) and the weight on my right foot really allows my right leg/butt to drive the shot forward. Now I feel like my form is basically complete, maybe just some minor tweaks here and there.

On the BH side, it really creates a lot more room for backswing, but the more significant changes IMO were keeping the racket head pointed higher and also keeping the racket higher in general. This synergizes very well with the forward lean, although I had trouble achieving consistency once the pace increased, as the ball coming back becomes way faster. I think going forward I need to develop the ability to judge each ball individually and shorten the reloop action when necessary.

Here's a clip of my FH forms over the past few months. My work has been mostly on BH, but you can still see some changes. In the first section in April, I realized that I was rotating my body through the ball. This causes over-rotation of the body, resulting in slower recovery. By the August video I had addressed that to some extent by transferring energy to the arm at contact, thus reducing the magnitude and duration of body rotation without reducing quality of the shot. The last clip is from yesterday, when I managed to incorporate the forward lean and the increased weight on my right foot during the backswing.

Looking at the videos, I can see why my coaches didn't tell me to increase my forward lean. It's actually pretty hard to see from the frontal angle. I also didn't realize how straight my stance was until I watched my Oakland tournament videos, some of which were recorded from the side angle. It might also have something to do with my bad posture, which is usually a bit kyphotic, with a bit of a bend at the lumbar spine, so it looks like I'm leaning forward. But what's important is to lean forward at the hip and not at the lower back. What my coaches have been telling me instead was to loop more forward, which always felt a bit awkward. Turns out after I started leaning forward, my stroke naturally became more forward going.

I agreed with your coach that you looped a bit too upward, not enough forward motion. It is not really about your stand, but the way you turn your body. Your right leg was not grounded strongly on the floor for the forward turn. The weight switch between your two legs is too much so your forward motion is not enough.
 
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I agreed with your coach that you looped a bit too upward, not enough forward motion. It is not really about your stand, but the way you turn your body. Your right leg was not grounded strongly on the floor for the forward turn. The weight switch between your two legs is too much so your forward motion is not enough.
It's really in both. Try doing a looping motion with your back straight, then again with your butt sticking out and the whole upper body leaning forward, you'll find that the stroke naturally becomes less upgoing and more forward going.

Then there's second part of my adjustment, the loading on the right foot. If I just rotate my hip without loading the right foot, when I kick my right hip forward I end up shifting my weight overly to the left. But if I load my weight on the right foot, I end up shifting my weight more to the center when I kick forward.

You really can't do it any other way without sacrificing power in your shot.
 
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says Certified USATT Coach
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Oh I can get behind that. If Ican win by being a semi-passive brick wall, I'm basically "not losing" and usually that is reflected in ratings where I would drop up to 50-60 points if I lost, but gain only 1-3 if I win don't lose.

I usually do the same thing in training matches - to the point where there are multiple people who repeatedly keep saying things like "if you play a little less risky you wouldn't lose so many points". But it has brought me from having zero FH confidence and reliability to me liking my FH more than my BH now. And yes, I'm doing more BH attacks in training matches to get that up, too.
Sometimes I do have to take care to not get stuck in high attack mode and tune things down to a more reasonable level for real matches. I think I need to change up the intensity in training a bit more, too, so I have an easier time switching modes and adjusting to the opponent.
I would take from this argument that sometimes, one simply has to try to attack where it is appropriate despite personal fear - despite the immediate point loss or game/match loss... and build the play style one is capable of and training for and practice-wise ready for... and use courage and judgment.
 
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It's really in both. Try doing a looping motion with your back straight, then again with your butt sticking out and the whole upper body leaning forward, you'll find that the stroke naturally becomes less upgoing and more forward going.

Then there's second part of my adjustment, the loading on the right foot. If I just rotate my hip without loading the right foot, when I kick my right hip forward I end up shifting my weight overly to the left. But if I load my weight on the right foot, I end up shifting my weight more to the center when I kick forward.

You really can't do it any other way without sacrificing power in your shot.
Hi @dingyibvs I will be in SFO next Friday... prolly able to break off early afternoon. You busy @dingyibvs ? text me and we see how good and bad our shots and bellies are looking.

Will prolly start coaching Saturdays at San Ramon again for a short spell too, opportunities there too.
 
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Hi @dingyibvs I will be in SFO next Friday... prolly able to break off early afternoon. You busy @dingyibvs ? text me and we see how good and bad our shots and bellies are looking.

Will prolly start coaching Saturdays at San Ramon again for a short spell too, opportunities there too.
I'm working next Fri, but Saturdays in the future will work I'm sure!
 
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So I have been thinking really hard about how to improve my forehand ro backhand transition during matches. I realized that one major problem is where my racket sits during the ready position , it is far to close to my body I think which makes it a significant movement to go for the forehand given how my balance feels.

So I realized I need to chance the way I block and finish backhands so the racket is further away me at the finish so that the body position and the backswing for a forehand feel more natural. It haven't tried it at the table yet but it implies that relative to my body, my basic strokes should contact the ball at a very similar place.

Watching table tennis today, I got some validation (at least to me) watching Sora play.and to a lesser degree Hina. Maybe it is something that has always been there and was juat to subtle for me to catch the difference. But I hope this can work because it would alleviate my biggest table tennis transition issue

The main change would be to block ans play backhands more towards the right hip/foot and not in the middle/center of the body.
 
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