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The interesting question is, do they have to go all out on every ball, and if so, why?
- is their technique not refined enough to make controlled, high spin contact?
- is their equipment inappropriate for good, high spin (friction) contact?
(Or both, of course)
It's not unusual to have people swinging for the bloody ropes just because that's the only way they can get their rubber functioning properly and retain any form of control over the ball. I honestly think I'm guilty of this exact thing.
I think it's just a shot choice thing. They're able to make high quality shots, but that's all they go for.
 
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often it is also about prefered ball height and curve. I remember myself looping very high balls by letting them fall quite a bit until they reached my shoulder level so i could powerloop them, simply because i was incapable of smashing them at higher heights.
 
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Just had a training session last night with my regular training partner. Feels like I'm making some sort of breakthrough with this forward lean, it's like a simple but major piece of missing puzzle, especially for my FH. I've added a bit of additional tweak to my backswing as well. My coach told me to make my knee face a bit more to my right side during the backswing, and this allows me to put a bit more weight on my right foot, shifting my center of gravity a bit more to the right. During the forward swing the combination of the forward lean (it's really the butt sticking further back) and the weight on my right foot really allows my right leg/butt to drive the shot forward. Now I feel like my form is basically complete, maybe just some minor tweaks here and there.

On the BH side, it really creates a lot more room for backswing, but the more significant changes IMO were keeping the racket head pointed higher and also keeping the racket higher in general. This synergizes very well with the forward lean, although I had trouble achieving consistency once the pace increased, as the ball coming back becomes way faster. I think going forward I need to develop the ability to judge each ball individually and shorten the reloop action when necessary.

Here's a clip of my FH forms over the past few months. My work has been mostly on BH, but you can still see some changes. In the first section in April, I realized that I was rotating my body through the ball. This causes over-rotation of the body, resulting in slower recovery. By the August video I had addressed that to some extent by transferring energy to the arm at contact, thus reducing the magnitude and duration of body rotation without reducing quality of the shot. The last clip is from yesterday, when I managed to incorporate the forward lean and the increased weight on my right foot during the backswing.

Looking at the videos, I can see why my coaches didn't tell me to increase my forward lean. It's actually pretty hard to see from the frontal angle. I also didn't realize how straight my stance was until I watched my Oakland tournament videos, some of which were recorded from the side angle. It might also have something to do with my bad posture, which is usually a bit kyphotic, with a bit of a bend at the lumbar spine, so it looks like I'm leaning forward. But what's important is to lean forward at the hip and not at the lower back. What my coaches have been telling me instead was to loop more forward, which always felt a bit awkward. Turns out after I started leaning forward, my stroke naturally became more forward going.

 
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Just had a training session last night with my regular training partner. Feels like I'm making some sort of breakthrough with this forward lean, it's like a simple but major piece of missing puzzle, especially for my FH. I've added a bit of additional tweak to my backswing as well. My coach told me to make my knee face a bit more to my right side during the backswing, and this allows me to put a bit more weight on my right foot, shifting my center of gravity a bit more to the right. During the forward swing the combination of the forward lean (it's really the butt sticking further back) and the weight on my right foot really allows my right leg/butt to drive the shot forward. Now I feel like my form is basically complete, maybe just some minor tweaks here and there.

On the BH side, it really creates a lot more room for backswing, but the more significant changes IMO were keeping the racket head pointed higher and also keeping the racket higher in general. This synergizes very well with the forward lean, although I had trouble achieving consistency once the pace increased, as the ball coming back becomes way faster. I think going forward I need to develop the ability to judge each ball individually and shorten the reloop action when necessary.

Here's a clip of my FH forms over the past few months. My work has been mostly on BH, but you can still see some changes. In the first section in April, I realized that I was rotating my body through the ball. This causes over-rotation of the body, resulting in slower recovery. By the August video I had addressed that to some extent by transferring energy to the arm at contact, thus reducing the magnitude and duration of body rotation without reducing quality of the shot. The last clip is from yesterday, when I managed to incorporate the forward lean and the increased weight on my right foot during the backswing.

Looking at the videos, I can see why my coaches didn't tell me to increase my forward lean. It's actually pretty hard to see from the frontal angle. I also didn't realize how straight my stance was until I watched my Oakland tournament videos, some of which were recorded from the side angle. It might also have something to do with my bad posture, which is usually a bit kyphotic, with a bit of a bend at the lumbar spine, so it looks like I'm leaning forward. But what's important is to lean forward at the hip and not at the lower back. What my coaches have been telling me instead was to loop more forward, which always felt a bit awkward. Turns out after I started leaning forward, my stroke naturally became more forward going.

I agreed with your coach that you looped a bit too upward, not enough forward motion. It is not really about your stand, but the way you turn your body. Your right leg was not grounded strongly on the floor for the forward turn. The weight switch between your two legs is too much so your forward motion is not enough.
 
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I agreed with your coach that you looped a bit too upward, not enough forward motion. It is not really about your stand, but the way you turn your body. Your right leg was not grounded strongly on the floor for the forward turn. The weight switch between your two legs is too much so your forward motion is not enough.
It's really in both. Try doing a looping motion with your back straight, then again with your butt sticking out and the whole upper body leaning forward, you'll find that the stroke naturally becomes less upgoing and more forward going.

Then there's second part of my adjustment, the loading on the right foot. If I just rotate my hip without loading the right foot, when I kick my right hip forward I end up shifting my weight overly to the left. But if I load my weight on the right foot, I end up shifting my weight more to the center when I kick forward.

You really can't do it any other way without sacrificing power in your shot.
 
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Oh I can get behind that. If Ican win by being a semi-passive brick wall, I'm basically "not losing" and usually that is reflected in ratings where I would drop up to 50-60 points if I lost, but gain only 1-3 if I win don't lose.

I usually do the same thing in training matches - to the point where there are multiple people who repeatedly keep saying things like "if you play a little less risky you wouldn't lose so many points". But it has brought me from having zero FH confidence and reliability to me liking my FH more than my BH now. And yes, I'm doing more BH attacks in training matches to get that up, too.
Sometimes I do have to take care to not get stuck in high attack mode and tune things down to a more reasonable level for real matches. I think I need to change up the intensity in training a bit more, too, so I have an easier time switching modes and adjusting to the opponent.
I would take from this argument that sometimes, one simply has to try to attack where it is appropriate despite personal fear - despite the immediate point loss or game/match loss... and build the play style one is capable of and training for and practice-wise ready for... and use courage and judgment.
 
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It's really in both. Try doing a looping motion with your back straight, then again with your butt sticking out and the whole upper body leaning forward, you'll find that the stroke naturally becomes less upgoing and more forward going.

Then there's second part of my adjustment, the loading on the right foot. If I just rotate my hip without loading the right foot, when I kick my right hip forward I end up shifting my weight overly to the left. But if I load my weight on the right foot, I end up shifting my weight more to the center when I kick forward.

You really can't do it any other way without sacrificing power in your shot.
Hi @dingyibvs I will be in SFO next Friday... prolly able to break off early afternoon. You busy @dingyibvs ? text me and we see how good and bad our shots and bellies are looking.

Will prolly start coaching Saturdays at San Ramon again for a short spell too, opportunities there too.
 
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Hi @dingyibvs I will be in SFO next Friday... prolly able to break off early afternoon. You busy @dingyibvs ? text me and we see how good and bad our shots and bellies are looking.

Will prolly start coaching Saturdays at San Ramon again for a short spell too, opportunities there too.
I'm working next Fri, but Saturdays in the future will work I'm sure!
 
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So I have been thinking really hard about how to improve my forehand ro backhand transition during matches. I realized that one major problem is where my racket sits during the ready position , it is far to close to my body I think which makes it a significant movement to go for the forehand given how my balance feels.

So I realized I need to chance the way I block and finish backhands so the racket is further away me at the finish so that the body position and the backswing for a forehand feel more natural. It haven't tried it at the table yet but it implies that relative to my body, my basic strokes should contact the ball at a very similar place.

Watching table tennis today, I got some validation (at least to me) watching Sora play.and to a lesser degree Hina. Maybe it is something that has always been there and was juat to subtle for me to catch the difference. But I hope this can work because it would alleviate my biggest table tennis transition issue

The main change would be to block ans play backhands more towards the right hip/foot and not in the middle/center of the body.
 
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So I have been thinking really hard about how to improve my forehand ro backhand transition during matches. I realized that one major problem is where my racket sits during the ready position , it is far to close to my body I think which makes it a significant movement to go for the forehand given how my balance feels.

So I realized I need to chance the way I block and finish backhands so the racket is further away me at the finish so that the body position and the backswing for a forehand feel more natural. It haven't tried it at the table yet but it implies that relative to my body, my basic strokes should contact the ball at a very similar place.

Watching table tennis today, I got some validation (at least to me) watching Sora play.and to a lesser degree Hina. Maybe it is something that has always been there and was juat to subtle for me to catch the difference. But I hope this can work because it would alleviate my biggest table tennis transition issue

The main change would be to block ans play backhands more towards the right hip/foot and not in the middle/center of the body.
A really simple adjustment I've made lately is to just have the right elbow higher and more forward. I originally did it for backhand shot related reasons, but I later noticed it makes transitioning from a backhand followthrough into forehand backswing a lot easier, because the natural path your elbow wants to take isn't into your kidney. :)
 
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So I have been thinking really hard about how to improve my forehand ro backhand transition during matches. I realized that one major problem is where my racket sits during the ready position , it is far to close to my body I think which makes it a significant movement to go for the forehand given how my balance feels.
YES.

FH to BH transition is always hampered by NOT having playing elbow in front and to side of front of ribs. You should have at least 6 inches of space to side and front. That allows lower arm to go to BH id ball goes there... also allows lower arm to open and with a tiny step and hitting toe pointed parallel to end line (opens your hips) you can do a real quick short hip powered hit and be compact.
 
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League night, so I'm playing 4 days straight. A little sore in the bicep area but I managed.

First thing I noticed, it took less than a minute to warm up and tune in. Amazing, usually it takes a few games rather than minutes.
I used that to my advantage to get a 3-0 right off the bat, against a player nearly 200 points higher. Unfortunately that was all we were able to win, but rating-wise it was a good haul.
We'll grow into it, hopefully fast enough to retain the group
 
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I have come to the conclusion that buying tt gears is more fun than practicing 😭😭😭

Its frustrating to be bad at something you are nerdy about.
Bad is always relative, as is good. Nothing wrong with enjoying a sport in the level you're at, in fact that's probably better than setting unrealistic goals.
Improving takes time, as well as having the right resources to do it (coaching, regularly playing, varying players, official matches).

More often than not, if you miss one or more of those resources, improvements will be slow and choppy, with lots of plateaus and ceilings. And that's on top of TT having a naturally steep and long learning curve.

Patience is a rare virtue especially nowadays. If you allow it, TT can teach you patience and reward you with long term improvements.
 
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I have come to the conclusion that buying tt gears is more fun than practicing 😭😭😭

Its frustrating to be bad at something you are nerdy about.

I get it though, equipment junkying is so much fun!

There is a lot of stuff to learn and experience, how do woods feel, fibers, different shapes, sizes, handle shapes and even grip types. Heck, I was eyeing up a LP rubber in the giant suitcase you brought and would have probably bought it if it hadn't been cut to a 155h blade (or penhold shape with a gap?).
(Writing the dimensions on the rubbers cardboard was a smart touch btw!)

At some point though, it's just a good idea to use one blade and rubber setup for 80-90% of the time. That Ma Lin Carbon CPEN seemed like a fitting blade, don't know about the rubbers as it seemed to me the SP were more of a hindrance than a help. If you dress that blade up with one of your Mercury 2 Mediums on the FH, that's going to be a real good growing setup. The M2 really allows you to pull a ball over the net if you need to, but is also versatile enough to hit, loop, push and even chop with good quality. Didn't see what you had on the BH.

I do still like to play around, but I always make sure to use my main setup at least 30m every time, preferably at the end of a session, to reset my feeling back to what I'm supposed to use. And 95% of the time it feels better than what I've been playing for fun with. If the weekend has shown me anything though, it's that I can just get rid of pretty much everything else and focus in the Innerforce/Glayzer combo. (and yes, I replaced the Rozena on the way home. Glayzer works so much better for me)
 
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I spent more time browsing catalogues and online shops than training 🙈

Im pledging to use the yeo (non carbon) with 802-40 sp forehand as my main racket. At least for a season. I want to be more aggressive, and luckily for me, @Caravenav and @El_Noppo agreed to be my coaches online. Both of them play penhold sp fh.

Also playing sp and inverted combo keeps my EJ syndrome a little more in control, as i can also twindle and loop with inverted when i have EJ urges. Before that i would bring 4+ different rackets for every training session 😬
 
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