Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[blahness]

I had a lesson yesterday, helped confirm some recent findings and also learned some new things.

On the FH side, the coach confirmed the benefits of keeping the wrist loose and the racket head up. Apparently the racket head should be adjusted based on the spin, height, and timing of the ball. That also goes for the BH side which I also worked on later on.

In addition, he wanted me to move my elbow more forward during the forward swing. I couldn't figure out how to work that into my stroke, so I tried a bunch of things during the practice, though never quite got it right. After coming home and reviewing the video I think I finally figured it out. The best way to do it is feeling like you're hitting the ball with your elbow. By doing this it also made the wrist usage much more natural. Before my wrist would lead the elbow, but now I feel like the elbow is leading the wrist (not actually, but that's the feeling).

On the BH side, besides adjusting the racket head I also needed to adjust my racket height in general. He noticed the day before that I was missing way too many opportunity balls on the BH side. He fed me some opportunity balls and had me start with a much higher racket, so high that I was absolutely certain that the ball wouldn't even reach the net, that it'd just hit my side of the table. Yet, it worked. The contact was great and the ball landed deep on his side. My brain needs to be completely rewired for this phenomenon lol.

Also, I finally managed to record some BH service receive training footage last week. I couldn't really use any power with my FH due to my wrist injury, so it was a good opportunity to work on my BH. It took me until ~5 mins into the video before I figured out that I could use my body to help adjust for height, though I never was able to use proper footwork to help as well. You can also see how during periods where I have trouble attacking services that it affects the rest of my game as well, as I'm not ready for the ball coming back even when I do land an attack. So I think if I can launch the first attack more consistently it should help the rest of my game as well.

Tbh imo it is probably too hard to try to overwhelm opponents by opening loop -> mid distance BH powerlooping and then hammer them till they miss their block. A lot of people are just damn good at BH blocking and mid distance BH powerlooping is just too damn difficult.

I feel like if you focused a bit more on the finger action (index + thumb lever arm) and forearm supination you would get even higher spin/speed ratios which would help you shorten the stroke and also increase consistency.

For me i feel like the most effective stroke patterns are:

1) opening loop then continuous small stroke super spinny counters taken early (never wait for the ball to drop) with the aim just to keep up pressure and never really to win the point outright. A bit like the women's game. This can be highly annoying to opponents because it all looks like opportunity balls to them but isnt actually easy to deal with due to the spin. Also you defend your close table position and cut off angles and just kinda hang in there and vary angles here and there. And it is super stable because you are putting a lot of spin and not a lot of speed in them.

2) opening loop then BH fade counter (the harimoto siblings are the best at it). Basically BH opening loop with normal sidespin and then aim it down the line directly from the 2nd ball with opposite sidespin. You can adjust body angle either by retreating left foot a bit (if incoming ball is fast) or putting right foot in front (if incoming ball is slower or shorter). If the other guy has slow footwork it is pretty much unreturnable. It feels bad and disrespectful to practice this but it is so effective in real match situations that it is really worth practicing for it specifically lol.

3) The other way is to do opening loop and then directly punching the ball on the left side to kill off the topspin which is also quite effective and disorienting af.

4) tried and true BH opening loop, opponent soft block, you pivot and finish the weak ball with a FH powerloop.

 

[Tyce]

Wait, what, not only is Sora now #1, but WCQ dropped to 4? Holy crap

 

[NextLevel]

Wait, what, not only is Sora now #1, but WCQ dropped to 4? Holy crap

WCQ has missed a lot of events this year and also the WTTC singles event points are gone because that happens every 2 years. You can't play few events without winning events like slams at a high clip and hope to remain #1 or even #5. That he still has his ranking that high is incredible.

 

[Tyce]

WCQ has missed a lot of events this year and also the WTTC singles event points are gone because that happens every 2 years. You can't play few events without winning events like slams at a high clip and hope to remain #1 or even #5. That he still has his ranking that high is incredible.

Yeah I knew he was out of the picture but having the highest ranked Chinese outside of the top 3 is pretty spectacular

 

[Archosaurus]

Played my first internal comp today. Played much better than in practice, 3rd ball rate maybe 80%. Also a bunch of backhand 3rd balls, H3 is really confidence-inspiring and you can just whack it. Surprisingly fast in rallies as well.

Lost 2 and won 1, was very close on my first match but we got our brackets changed after a while so we didn't play it to conclusion. I lost first set 9-11 and up 2-1 when we changed. Could have gone either way. Mid-division very orthodox two-wing looper.

1 loss was very close against the winner of the bracket who plays mid-division, 1 loss was pretty bad against a kid in lower division who serves short, high nospin that I don't know how to attack properly LOL, 1 win very hard against another kid in lower division who is mostly similar skill but serves faster and flatter which is much more comfortable for me.

I think if I had played more conservative I could have won at least 2, but I'm completely happy in that I didn't hold back at all and executed my strategy. I know now what to do vs the nospin serve kid so maybe next time it'll be my victory. He has no mixup so you can just step in to flick them all. Against the winner of the bracket my winrate is about what it should be so the result is normal.

 

[kindof99]

I had a lesson yesterday, helped confirm some recent findings and also learned some new things.

On the FH side, the coach confirmed the benefits of keeping the wrist loose and the racket head up. Apparently the racket head should be adjusted based on the spin, height, and timing of the ball. That also goes for the BH side which I also worked on later on.

In addition, he wanted me to move my elbow more forward during the forward swing. I couldn't figure out how to work that into my stroke, so I tried a bunch of things during the practice, though never quite got it right. After coming home and reviewing the video I think I finally figured it out. The best way to do it is feeling like you're hitting the ball with your elbow. By doing this it also made the wrist usage much more natural. Before my wrist would lead the elbow, but now I feel like the elbow is leading the wrist (not actually, but that's the feeling).

On the BH side, besides adjusting the racket head I also needed to adjust my racket height in general. He noticed the day before that I was missing way too many opportunity balls on the BH side. He fed me some opportunity balls and had me start with a much higher racket, so high that I was absolutely certain that the ball wouldn't even reach the net, that it'd just hit my side of the table. Yet, it worked. The contact was great and the ball landed deep on his side. My brain needs to be completely rewired for this phenomenon lol.

Also, I finally managed to record some BH service receive training footage last week. I couldn't really use any power with my FH due to my wrist injury, so it was a good opportunity to work on my BH. It took me until ~5 mins into the video before I figured out that I could use my body to help adjust for height, though I never was able to use proper footwork to help as well. You can also see how during periods where I have trouble attacking services that it affects the rest of my game as well, as I'm not ready for the ball coming back even when I do land an attack. So I think if I can launch the first attack more consistently it should help the rest of my game as well.

Your backswing was mainly done by backswinging your elbow, which would make you loop/hit with your elbow, and cause many mistakes.

Better way is to backswing with your body without moving your elbow. Just let your forearm and wrist relax,. Push your body to meet the ball and your wrist and forearm will drive/loop the ball from body move momentum. In the long run, that will give your better power, consistency, and easier recovery

 

[dingyibvs]

Your backswing was mainly done by backswinging your elbow, which would make you loop/hit with your elbow, and cause many mistakes.

Better way is to backswing with your body without moving your elbow. Just let your forearm and wrist relax,. Push your body to meet the ball and your wrist and forearm will drive/loop the ball from body move momentum. In the long run, that will give your better power, consistency, and easier recovery

Are you referring to the FH or BH? That's certainly something I'm working on for the FH side, and it's been a focus for the past week or so. So many things to fix, but so little can be worked on each session! I think my next session will be focused on the correct body movement to propel my elbow forward.

On the BH side I'm working on the opposite. I have a tendency to sometimes use too much body to backswing, especially during FH/BH transitions. That's something my coach pointed out to me 2 sessions ago and something I've worked on a little bit with robot practices to fix. After trying out all sorts of things on the BH side, I think in general I've come to the conclusion that body usage on that side is gonna play more of a support role, and that the BH stroke should be mostly based on elbow control (via shoulder muscles).

One thing my coach had me work on a couple days ago was to move my elbow to meet the ball on the BH side. He says that my elbow is too static, which results in a very stop-and-go motion on the BH side instead of a fluid motion, which in turn results in many mistakes especially with whiffs. We worked on moving my elbow to meet the ball, which serves both as part of my forearm backswing as well as a timing adjustment mechanism. After my elbow finds the ball I would then fix the elbow and swing my forearm forward. I think it resulted in overall better timing, less mistakes, and better contact and power. I expect that as rallies become faster, this mechanism will become minimally visible, but probably should still be present to some extent.

 

[kindof99]

Are you referring to the FH or BH? That's certainly something I'm working on for the FH side, and it's been a focus for the past week or so. So many things to fix, but so little can be worked on each session! I think my next session will be focused on the correct body movement to propel my elbow forward.

On the BH side I'm working on the opposite. I have a tendency to sometimes use too much body to backswing, especially during FH/BH transitions. That's something my coach pointed out to me 2 sessions ago and something I've worked on a little bit with robot practices to fix. After trying out all sorts of things on the BH side, I think in general I've come to the conclusion that body usage on that side is gonna play more of a support role, and that the BH stroke should be mostly based on elbow control (via shoulder muscles).

One thing my coach had me work on a couple days ago was to move my elbow to meet the ball on the BH side. He says that my elbow is too static, which results in a very stop-and-go motion on the BH side instead of a fluid motion, which in turn results in many mistakes especially with whiffs. We worked on moving my elbow to meet the ball, which serves both as part of my forearm backswing as well as a timing adjustment mechanism. After my elbow finds the ball I would then fix the elbow and swing my forearm forward. I think it resulted in overall better timing, less mistakes, and better contact and power. I expect that as rallies become faster, this mechanism will become minimally visible, but probably should still be present to some extent.

Both forehand and backhand, but I was talking more about the backhand. For rallies in a point, you probably do not need to use too much body for backhand, but for opening against push and back spin serves, I think using body provides for more support and consistence, and more power if needed. Also using your body more for backhand backswing is good for recovery and transition to forehand. I guess you actually use body when you use your elbow to meet the ball. You just can not use your elbow without holding your body.

Not sure about how you used your body before. Maybe there is a way to improve on that than trying too much on elbow? Using body on backhand is quite different from on forehand.

 

[dingyibvs]

Both forehand and backhand, but I was talking more about the backhand. For rallies in a point, you probably do not need to use too much body for backhand, but for opening against push and back spin serves, I think using body provides for more support and consistence, and more power if needed. Also using your body more for backhand backswing is good for recovery and transition to forehand. I guess you actually use body when you use your elbow to meet the ball. You just can not use your elbow without holding your body.

Not sure about how you used your body before. Maybe there is a way to improve on that than trying too much on elbow? Using body on backhand is quite different from on forehand.

Yeah, maybe it's just a difference in focus. You're right that often you can't meet the ball with your elbow without moving your feet and repositioning your body. I think I'm right now doing too much finding the ball with my hand, so thinking of it more as finding the ball with my elbow may help addressing my specific issues.

For my problem with FH/BH transitions, basically what I was doing was that for whatever reason, whenever I'm transitioning to the BH side I really draw back my left hip as if I'm preparing for a big loop, even though I'm just trying to do a BH counter. My theory is that it comes from my random location opening loop training, which is the only random location training I've done recently. Combined with how I was incorrectly trying to kill every ball during that training and hence loading up for every shot, I developed this issue. I probably do the same on the FH side as well, but the later timing on the FH side makes this less of an issue whereas on the BH side doing a bigger body backswing can mess up the timing on a quick rally.

 

[kindof99]

Yeah, maybe it's just a difference in focus. You're right that often you can't meet the ball with your elbow without moving your feet and repositioning your body. I think I'm right now doing too much finding the ball with my hand, so thinking of it more as finding the ball with my elbow may help addressing my specific issues.

For my problem with FH/BH transitions, basically what I was doing was that for whatever reason, whenever I'm transitioning to the BH side I really draw back my left hip as if I'm preparing for a big loop, even though I'm just trying to do a BH counter. My theory is that it comes from my random location opening loop training, which is the only random location training I've done recently. Combined with how I was incorrectly trying to kill every ball during that training and hence loading up for every shot, I developed this issue. I probably do the same on the FH side as well, but the later timing on the FH side makes this less of an issue whereas on the BH side doing a bigger body backswing can mess up the timing on a quick rally.

Well, maybe we were talking differently about how to use body on backhand. For me, most of time, it simple means twisting your legs and sucking in your belly a little. Look at SYS, she just basically rotates her right leg/hip a little bit for transaction.

 

[Tyce]

I identified a costly mistake I've been making for a while now. I have been trying to stay closer to the table but as a result I'm almost hugging it, without getting my timing properly adjusted as well as my stroke direction.
To do it properly, I need to make a lot of adjustments, bat height, posture, you name it.
I think for now it's a good idea to just step out instead, go back to what was working and improve that game with better placement and quality.
So tonight I have been doing exactly that, and wouldn't you know, my timing returned, I was opening up with a much higher success rate and I finally got that sense of being in control of my game again.
Good times. Now let's work with this.