DHS Hurricane 3 Neo: The Complete Amateur Guide & Review

[K.K]

- In germany when i was at borussia dusseldorf they told me my rating would be around 1700-1800 TTR which roughly translates (if I can trust my american contacts and AI) to a low 2000ish USATT
- In the netherlands where I play, I won a doubles tournament last january (I was the attacker and my partner the defender) which was until 1460 dutch elo, and only lost a few sets in 5 matches

For the other topic, technical abilities, is there something you'd like to know in particular? I can try to tape that as well in detail!

i ask about it, because rating is actually not visible just by looking at someone play. it is the overall ability how someone can perform on weekly basis against all kinds of players. some players with good technique look like 2000usatt, but play like 1600, because under pressure and against all kinds of different playing styles their technique and mind falls apart. while some players may look like 1600 players but perform like 2000 in actual matches, because their tactical level and experience is way higher then their form alone. this is where my question comes in about how those players choose what rubber and hardness. so seeing you in actual matchplay would make it easier to relate to some terms you use in this guide.

for me those hard and tacky rubbers -no matter from wich company- are more about the footwork someone has to actually be able to use them. and footwork is not only measured by drills in training but your ability in reading the ball and how fast you can make the right decision and this is more visible in real match play

anyway great effort and thank you for the guide!

 

[victormanriquey]

My G1 has more than 20 hours across 6 months and 2 blades. I have sold my old one in a similar condition. Play and look like new, only 0.5-1mm shrinkage in length. One of my opponents has Vis with G1 and C1, more than 2 years old with ruff edges and marks on the surfaces, but the grip is there, and the sponge is alive. He does not use protective sheets, and cleans the rubbers only before play. With the same "care" H3 will be white and oxidized with properties of antispin rubber. G1 has a weak sponge, so the glue needs to be DHS no. 15 or SUKE 02.

Yeah with that time and care H3N is done haha good to know thanks, I knew it was durable but not that much!

And indeed sponge is weak like many other tensors so one has to be careful.

 

[victormanriquey]

i ask about it, because rating is actually not visible just by looking at someone play. it is the overall ability how someone can perform on weekly basis against all kinds of players. some players with good technique look like 2000usatt, but play like 1600, because under pressure and against all kinds of different playing styles their technique and mind falls apart. while some players may look like 1600 players but perform like 2000 in actual matches, because their tactical level and experience is way higher then their form alone. this is where my question comes in about how those players choose what rubber and hardness. so seeing you in actual matchplay would make it easier to relate to some terms you use in this guide.

for me those hard and tacky rubbers -no matter from wich company- are more about the footwork someone has to actually be able to use them. and footwork is not only measured by drills in training but your ability in reading the ball and how fast you can make the right decision and this is more visible in real match play

anyway great effort and thank you for the guide!

thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed the guide Whenever I have some better recorded gameplay I ll send it to you no problem, then you can let me know what you think of it!

And yes, H3N requires footwork and the correct technique, I tried to explain that in the guide in the best way I could, with the body recoiling first, arm next to body and explode with index finger and wrist open with outwards arch, but its hard to say this in words, better just see it agreed

Btw, I agree on ranking, it does not tell the whole story, specially if you dont play competitions in a while haha

 

[doppelmoral]

I really liked that guide and introduction to h3. was a long and detailed write up, thanks for your efforts @victormanriquey . I think it will help alot of people

also, thanks for the credits at the end, though the link to my blog seems broken. might need some editing 😛

 

[victormanriquey]

I really liked that guide and introduction to h3. was a long and detailed write up, thanks for your efforts @victormanriquey . I think it will help alot of people

also, thanks for the credits at the end, though the link to my blog seems broken. might need some editing 😛

Thank you very much! Glad you liked it

And yes! I just fixed the link, something went wrong yesterday somehow, but now is all good! I really enjoyed the interview translation so had to add it!

 

[Kilogramme]

Just for People who wonder what DHS hardness means into ESN scale. The following rule is described by DHS themsleves. (translater by Google from chinese DHS book)

 

[Archosaurus]

Just for People who wonder what DHS hardness means into ESN scale. The following rule is described by DHS themsleves. (translater by Google from chinese DHS book)
View attachment 41760

DHS and many other CN manufs use Shore A.
ESN uses Shore O. Friendship 729 used to use Shore O, but they've changed to Shore A since the "new Battle II".

As far as I know, Butterfly uses most likely JIS K 6301 A. The number is slightly higher than Shore A of same stiffness, but comparable.

You can directly convert it, but it's not linear. Shore A and O only differ in the indenter head design, the spring force is the same IIRC, should be about 8N. I don't know much about JIS K 6301 A but it's probably a needle head design. They may be using JIS K 6253 for new rubbers but I don't know for sure. I think the spring load is 9.81N~.

You can find conversion charts online, but as a rough guide, 40 Shore A is 53 Shore O and 42 JIS K 6301 A.

Bear in mind this only measures the stiffness needed to reach a certain depth for a certain spring force and doesn't report the actual curve. It could differ A LOT for same hardness in elastic sponges. Bear in mind the sponge is likely measured independently from the topsheet and will in theory always be softer when in series with the topsheet.

 

[Kopp]

@victormanriquey nice article. So practical for the club players

 

[Doppelschlag]

@victormanriquey – another splendid article!

I’ll continue my question here since it might be of broader interest.

I’m now ready to dip my toes into H3N territory. The plan is to use Nuzn 45 on BH and H3N Provincial Orange on FH.

TL;DR: Slap the H3N on the PPP for max feel and learning, or on HAL for more punch directly? My level: German ~1100

I currently have three blade options:

• Hugo HAL (ST) – currently paired with FH Tibhar MK-FX & Andro Nuzn 45
• Donic Persson Powerplay (FL) [PPP] – currently TIbhar Evolution FX-S / Xiom Vega Europe VII
• Donic Smirnov Inner Carbon (ST) – nothin special glued to it

I don’t yet have a formal rating, but I make life hard for players in my club that have ~1200 German ranking.
I’m now trying to return to fundamentals and focus on technique development. I might have been a bit overambitious with HAL, even if its feel is very nice.

After some recent testing, I felt significantly more secure with the PPP compared to the HAL. I also tried a friend’s defensive setup (Victas Koji Matsushita with H3N on FH), which felt surprisingly good and not too dead, the blade in my estimation not very unlike the PPP in feel.

That said, the HAL with H3N will likely be slower than the PPP anyway. On the other hand again, reading

My question is:
Will the PPP be too slow/dead with H3N, or is that actually ideal for maximizing feel and technical development?


@victormanriquey – you spontaneously said HAL, which made my very uncertain, haha; I was expecting you to suggest PPP after reading, and I quote you: “Combined with a soft flexible blade the feedback [of H3N] is fantastic.” You also recommend alway trying unbolted first. Further, in your Best Intermediate Table Tennis Blades blog post, you basically only recommend softer blades that are in the PPP ball park. So now I’m more confused than ever, haha

Would love feedback from you and also the amazing community here.

PS. Another reason for my question was the quote by the ever super reviewer @doppelmoral :

I personally have been using Hugo HAL with Hurricane 3 Neo for almost a year now. Not gonna lie, while I love my blade, I noticed how much I miss the soft feeling of Limba with extra gears of the Innerforce type blade, especially for looping and blocking.

PPS. More info on the blades for comparison:

According to TT Gearlab, the Donic Persson PowerPlay has similar characteristics:

Basically what these numbers indicate is that the Hugo HAL is faster than the PPP, and that it feels very slightly harder, but that their playing characteristics are almost identical.

and

since i play hugo HAL i can attest you that donic PPP plays nothing like it. HAL is way stiffer and way faster with a lower trajectory. HAL plays more like an easier to play outer carbon blade while PPP plays like a slighty stiffer 5ply allwood.

 

[victormanriquey]

@victormanriquey – another splendid article!

I’ll continue my question here since it might be of broader interest.

I’m now ready to dip my toes into H3N territory. The plan is to use Nuzn 45 on BH and H3N Provincial Orange on FH.

TL;DR: Slap the H3N on the PPP for max feel and learning, or on HAL for more punch directly? My level: German ~1100

I currently have three blade options:

• Hugo HAL (ST) – currently paired with FH Tibhar MK-FX & Andro Nuzn 45
• Donic Persson Powerplay (FL) [PPP] – currently TIbhar Evolution FX-S / Xiom Vega Europe VII
• Donic Smirnov Inner Carbon (ST) – nothin special glued to it

I don’t yet have a formal rating, but I make life hard for players in my club that have ~1200 German ranking.
I’m now trying to return to fundamentals and focus on technique development. I might have been a bit overambitious with HAL, even if its feel is very nice.

After some recent testing, I felt significantly more secure with the PPP compared to the HAL. I also tried a friend’s defensive setup (Victas Koji Matsushita with H3N on FH), which felt surprisingly good and not too dead, the blade in my estimation not very unlike the PPP in feel.

That said, the HAL with H3N will likely be slower than the PPP anyway. On the other hand again, reading

My question is:
Will the PPP be too slow/dead with H3N, or is that actually ideal for maximizing feel and technical development?


@victormanriquey – you spontaneously said HAL, which made my very uncertain, haha; I was expecting you to suggest PPP after reading, and I quote you: “Combined with a soft flexible blade the feedback [of H3N] is fantastic.” You also recommend alway trying unbolted first. Further, in your Best Intermediate Table Tennis Blades blog post, you basically only recommend softer blades that are in the PPP ball park. So now I’m more confused than ever, haha

Would love feedback from you and also the amazing community here.

PS. Another reason for my question was the quote by the ever super reviewer @doppelmoral :



PPS. More info on the blades for comparison:

and

Haha nice piece of text, I enjoyed reading it, and thanks for the kind words!

My gut feeling says that for your current level, the PPP is a better blade than the HAL, mainly because a soft and flexy blade like PPP will slow things down a bit, have more dwell, more throw, and more feeling, and those are all good things for developing the right habits.

Yes, you will lose speed that you are used to with the HAL and you will need to use the body more to compensate for it, but this is only a positive thing if your condition/body can handle it

So especially, if returning to fundamentals is the plan, which sounds to me like a correct approach for growing towards 1500 TTR, I'd do the PPP and H3N + NUZN 45 and stick to it for a while I'd boost the H3N only once and lightly, just so you get the boosted feeling, break sponge a little bit in, but at the same time, not make it too bouncy, and not have to reboost in 2 months

I say this because when you boost a lot, 2-3 times and thick, the first 2-4 weeks are epic, but later after 2 months you will notice a huge difference, while if you boost a bit only, rubber plays better but difference in time is less, you alter the rubber less, which is all good for your level

Ps. Since you like equipment, you can also just buy another H3N and try it on the HAL as well, in case you want to be 100% sure, but I think personally that PPP is a better plan for now!

 

[Doppelschlag]

Haha nice piece of text, I enjoyed reading it, and thanks for the kind words!

My gut feeling says that for your current level, the PPP is a better blade than the HAL, mainly because a soft and flexy blade like PPP will slow things down a bit, have more dwell, more throw, and more feeling, and those are all good things for developing the right habits.

Yes, you will lose speed that you are used to with the HAL and you will need to use the body more to compensate for it, but this is only a positive thing if your condition/body can handle it

So especially, if returning to fundamentals is the plan, which sounds to me like a correct approach for growing towards 1500 TTR, I'd do the PPP and H3N + NUZN 45 and stick to it for a while I'd boost the H3N only once and lightly, just so you get the boosted feeling, break sponge a little bit in, but at the same time, not make it too bouncy, and not have to reboost in 2 months

I say this because when you boost a lot, 2-3 times and thick, the first 2-4 weeks are epic, but later after 2 months you will notice a huge difference, while if you boost a bit only, rubber plays better but difference in time is less, you alter the rubber less, which is all good for your level

Ps. Since you like equipment, you can also just buy another H3N and try it on the HAL as well, in case you want to be 100% sure, but I think personally that PPP is a better plan for now!

Thanks a lot. I’ll do as you say. I don’t have any booster, so will glue it without first while I’m waiting for delivery? This would also be in accordance with your article “First time user: I strongly recommend playing with it unboosted first to understand the rubber”. I’m holding a lot against you now, amn’t I? haha Seriously though, it is my understanding that regaling H3N does not degrade the rubber as much as tensors, so hop it’s ok.

Will report back in this thread for feedback on how it’s going. Thanks again.

PS. As a matter of fact I did buy two H3N, so maybe will glue it to the HAL as well. Or I’ll glue the K3 I got for free in our store, so that HAL will be a fun-racket, rather.

 

[jk1980]

Getting from TTR 1100 to 1500 is a huge leap and basically 4 leagues apart.
The TTR 1100 players i know do lack fundamentals and shot selection and in best case they have "a" game plan which is easily thwartable or exploitable. If you are 1100 TTR basically every thing that you do will give you more boost in performance than being an equipment junkie. Of course playing a ridiculously ambitious rubber like h3n will not help you at all.

If you got 1100 TTR that basically means that you can not even reliable attack backspin balls, which indicates you lack the technique to do the fundamentals with an easy and supportive rubber like these mentioned >45° esn scale rubbers. you will just make everything worse, because if you had a proper coach, you would be of a higher rating with these "easy to play" rubbers.

 

[GhostBackhand]

Great article Victor, my experience was exactly the same as yours. I also failed many times trying to make H3 work on the backhand side, and in the end I still went back to D09C.

When the power comes from the legs, then the waist, and finally explodes through the arm, H3 makes that amazing cracking sound. Every time I hear that sound, I already know the point is mine haha.

 

[Tyce]

Getting from TTR 1100 to 1500 is a huge leap and basically 4 leagues apart.
The TTR 1100 players i know do lack fundamentals and shot selection and in best case they have "a" game plan which is easily thwartable or exploitable. If you are 1100 TTR basically every thing that you do will give you more boost in performance than being an equipment junkie. Of course playing a ridiculously ambitious rubber like h3n will not help you at all.

I think this is a misconception, and something I've been getting the same thing wrong about this rubber.

Hurricane 3 is seen by a lot of people as the ultimate power rubber, combining spin and power reserves into ball bullets. But this is not the inital premise of it.
In essence, H3 is a rubber with high spin and high control. Yes, it also has huge power reserves, but those are not important for 1100 or even 1500 TTR level players.
Sure, if all you are trying to do is emulate loopkills, then it's high risk. But that's not a rubber problem, it's an expectations one. The fact that even lower level players can actually land some of those wild, flailing loopkills is telling of the insane levels of control that this rubber has.

So if we forget about high power loops, and look at the elements that are actually important for low-to-medium levels, we can see that H3 is very supportive:
- Service
- Serve receive
- pushing and short game
- overriding spin
- spinny opening loops
Those are all elements that are very important at these levels, and elements that can be played with a high level of safety using a Chinese tacky rubber like H3.
Sure, there are also elements that are harder, mostly flat elements like drives, passive blocks and smashes. But what that teaches is simply to always make an active stroke and add spin for safety.

Only when one controls these "basic" strokes well does it make sense to put more effort into learning to loop hard with it. The average (stereotypical) martial arts movie comes to mind, where the student simply isn't ready for the game ending move until they've learned the basics through and through. That's what H3 represents to me, the epitome of a rubber that can support every single step of development.

I really don't think H3 is an ambitious rubber at all. It's actually pretty modest, and yes, with a hidden kick of power.
In my opinion, the average tensor rubber is worse. Most of them give me, at one point or another, the sensation of having to hold back to "control" the ball. But holding back means less spin and less spin means less safety on loops. Flat, bouncy contact is the easiest thing to do but the worst thing for ball control and the hardest road to understanding how adding spin to every stroke is good for your game. It's counterintuitive how "free speed" and "holding back" result in the ball flying off. With a tacky hard rubber, it's much more clear: if the ball dumps into the net, you didn't put enough effort in.

 

[Draf]

The ambition level scales with the amount of booster you use

 

[ttarc]

Getting from TTR 1100 to 1500 is a huge leap and basically 4 leagues apart.
The TTR 1100 players i know do lack fundamentals and shot selection and in best case they have "a" game plan which is easily thwartable or exploitable. If you are 1100 TTR basically every thing that you do will give you more boost in performance than being an equipment junkie. Of course playing a ridiculously ambitious rubber like h3n will not help you at all.

If you got 1100 TTR that basically means that you can not even reliable attack backspin balls, which indicates you lack the technique to do the fundamentals with an easy and supportive rubber like these mentioned >45° esn scale rubbers. you will just make everything worse, because if you had a proper coach, you would be of a higher rating with these "easy to play" rubbers.

The funny thing is that in the 38 mm era everyone seeing a beginner with a speed glued Sriver would have called that "ridiculously ambitious" even on a slow 5-ply all-wood blade and now we are suggesting pre-tensioned (built-in speed glue effect) rubbers to beginners...

Sponge hardness:
Sriver = 38° JPN scale or around 48° ESN or around 37° something Shore A/DHS.
Measured sponge hardness including topsheet 1):
Sriver = 52° Shore O (ESN) to 56° Shore O vs H3(N) = anything from 47° Shore O to 61° Shore O. A 38° Provincial was measured with 56° Shore O.

Therefore a Sriver must also be "ridiculously ambitious"?

We should also not forget that the needed input (racket speed) to land a 40 mm ball with the same speed and spin as a 38 mm ball on the opponents side is a lot higher now. This can be imo better compensated with a slightly faster blade (e.g. the suggested PPP instead of e.g. an Stiga Allround Classic or Appelgren Allplay) than with faster, pre-tensioned (non-linear) rubbers.
And to round things up: todays H3(N) are less tacky/sticky than they used to be and therefore don't feel that slow anymore when hitting lightly.

1) https://tabletennis-reviews.com/reference/sponge-hardness-table/

 

[Doppelschlag]

Question about boosting and glueing: I will, as recommended in the article that is the fundament of this thread, try the H3N without booster first. I will use Nittaku Finezip. Upon later boosting, shall I try to completely remove the glue from the rubber first? I have read several articles recommending to actively put a layer on the rubber prior to boosting.
• Is this recommended?
• Does this apply also to an older, drier, layer of glue, like when removing the rubber after a few months?

Thanks in advance!

 

[DBsystem78]

Don't put a layer of glue before boosting , remove every old glue from rubber and blade , boost the rubber straight to the sponge and then glue it to the blade , 2 layers on the rubber 1 layer on the blade

 

[Conehead]

Upon later boosting, shall I try to completely remove the glue from the rubber first?

Yes

 

[Conehead]

I have read several articles recommending to actively put a layer on the rubber prior to boosting.

I heard and read about that as well, however, I just don't get the sense of that. You would need to manage to apply an absolute even layer of glue prior to boosting. If the glue layer is not even - but let's say maybe thicker in the middle of the blade - then the effect is that the booster cannot penetrate as smooth in the center of the blade as it would penetrate at the edges of the blade.
Also who can say for sure that the booster IS able to penetrate through the glue at all? Unless you don't know the chemical composition, it's kind of hard to say in my opinion.,