DHS Hurricane 3 Neo: The Complete Amateur Guide & Review

[Tyce]

The only pseudo scientific value to boosting through glue is to reduce the rate of absorption and protect the sponge.

There's no evidence that it works (or not) and the only tangible effect is a goopy glue layer, which indicates at least some of the booster is mixed with the glue rather than getting into the sponge. I don't see why I would want to slow down the reaction, or make my glue goopy.

 

[Conehead]

The only pseudo scientific value to boosting through glue is to reduce the rate of absorption and protect the sponge.

But is it not that I do want the absorption and the extension of the sponge?

 

[jk1980]

So if we forget about high power loops, and look at the elements that are actually important for low-to-medium levels, we can see that H3 is very supportive:
- Service
- Serve receive
- pushing and short game
- overriding spin
- spinny opening loops
Those are all elements that are very important at these levels, and elements that can be played with a high level of safety using a Chinese tacky rubber like H3.
Sure, there are also elements that are harder, mostly flat elements like drives, passive blocks and smashes. But what that teaches is simply to always make an active stroke and add spin for safety.

The point is that it's harder to learn to loop with hurricane than with your easier to play andro r45 rubbers for instance. Yes sure, with good technical training and a good coach that all can work out, but that is utopia for most. There is simply not good enough coaching available in most clubs.

i am so adamant against this h3 to learn loop because i do and did see it fail already for youngsters at our club that actually have access to at least regular group training and here and there direct guidance from a coach. We even have a seasoned coach on the adult sessions that plays chinese rubbers, but still it seems to be very hard for 18 year old non muscular boys to loop with unboosted hurricanes.

That boy uses even the medium soft versions of hurricane 3 and still he can't loop with any consistency, because the power and acceleration needed to actually do that is above what he can actually control.
Yes, every 20th loop attempt he actually brings onto the table quite well and fast, but 95% of the others fail to clear the net.

The reality is that people learn from watching others and copying this style. This is just way harder for somebody with hurricane trying to copy a european technique because oh wonder, even the same movement that lands his peers a loop would not work with his hurricane rubbers.

The result is that guy can't loop, every attempted loop is more like a wild swing with a slap not a brush contact and every serve he can't return he will simply attempt to loop/smash it because he is out of options. All his serves are empty, because he does not have the wrist friction or acceleration to impart any spin, so basically everything he does and even if he would copy the movement of his tensor rubber peers would fail him.

this really hurts me seeing it fail so hard, because if you just looked at his equipment you would think that he is a spinny looper, but his game developed to the opposite. An empty balls spraying and smashing player.

The initial hurdle/threshold with these rubbers is simply too much for people that dont have a dedicated coach that can work with him on that.

I think this can severely harm "his game", because in my opinion learning to spin with some easy andro hexer rubber to actually incorporate loops into your game by using this successfully is much better than swining wildly and uncontrolled at the ball to try to get a thick enough contact with the right swing angle and trajectory.

Perhaps Doppelschlag wants to add a short video of his loops so we can see if his technique is anywhere close to what would be needed to have a chance to use that rubber.

 

[Tyce]

Hey, I get your point I really do. What blade is that person using though? Because some make it a lot harder (as I am experiencing) than others.
Your point is unfortunately also valid when you're surrounded by seniors playing classic rubber and finding light tensors too much. I find it easier to transition from classics to tacky.

 

[jk1980]

it's a penhold stiga allround classic blade i think. him wanting to play penhold with nobody in the club playing penhold and being able to teach him properly doesn't make it easier

 

[Tyce]

In my personal opinion, that's too thin to get anything sensible out of H3. Even using 729 Super FX on something like that is tough to get any action going. Mercury 2 (soft) would work if they insist on using something Chinese.

It fits your description of hitting way too hard into the ball very well. It's my exact experience with thinner 5ply blades and tbh even Korbel wasn't quite making it easy to handle.
I'm having a great experience with sanwei fextra lately. Solid but slow. Clipper would be great but is quite a bit more blade to handle.

I wouldn't go to the other extreme. Fzd ALC feels great but it doesn't give me a lot of time to work on the ball. I don't recommend inner fiber either because of the unpredictable gear shift that can happen. They have to master the rubber first before putting it on a fast blade, because they don't have the resources to learn using both well.

 

[Doppelschlag]

Thanks all for interesting viewpoints! I will not post any videos (and this thread ist not about me specifically). However I am glad if I initiated an interesting discussion.

I will say this though: I just came back from 3 hours of training with my newly glued PPP+H3N and I haven’t had more fun playing TT in a long while. I felt much safer, landing loops and drives with significantly higher percentage. If course, I had to work hard for it, but that is what I was after. I certainly didn't feel I was lacking in speed (in my personal perception, compared to my normal training, that is). However, I don’t think the blade should be very much thinner, as @Tyce says.

One slight surprise was how tame the Nuzn 45 felt on the PPP; nice touch though, so just have to get used to it.

Only small drawback for me with PPP is the flared handle, I cannot get really comfortable with it, the way HAL’s ST handle fits my grip. Therefore, since my friend got me two H3N, I might go for Victor’s tip of slapping the other to my Hugo HAL. That way, if/when trying the other blade, I don’t change more than one parameter.

 

[Doppelschlag]

In my personal opinion, that's too thin to get anything sensible out of H3. Even using 729 Super FX on something like that is tough to get any action going. Mercury 2 (soft) would work if they insist on using something Chinese.

It fits your description of hitting way too hard into the ball very well. It's my exact experience with thinner 5ply blades and tbh even Korbel wasn't quite making it easy to handle.
I'm having a great experience with sanwei fextra lately. Solid but slow. Clipper would be great but is quite a bit more blade to handle.

I wouldn't go to the other extreme. Fzd ALC feels great but it doesn't give me a lot of time to work on the ball. I don't recommend inner fiber either because of the unpredictable gear shift that can happen. They have to master the rubber first before putting it on a fast blade, because they don't have the resources to learn using both well.

Interesting point, thanks for elaborating. As I wrote above, H3N felt very instructive on the get-go, and not really lacking in speed or control, even if I had to work very hard for it. Maybe HAL would have been the even better fit, have you had any experience with this combo?

 

[victormanriquey]

Don't put a layer of glue before boosting , remove every old glue from rubber and blade , boost the rubber straight to the sponge and then glue it to the blade , 2 layers on the rubber 1 layer on the blade

correct

Hurricane 3 is seen by a lot of people as the ultimate power rubber, combining spin and power reserves into ball bullets. But this is not the inital premise of it.

Yep very much agree to you whole post @Tyce

heard and read about that as well, however, I just don't get the sense of that. You would need to manage to apply an absolute even layer of glue prior to boosting. If the glue layer is not even - but let's say maybe thicker in the middle of the blade - then the effect is that the booster cannot penetrate as smooth in the center of the blade as it would penetrate at the edges of the blade.
Also who can say for sure that the booster IS able to penetrate through the glue at all? Unless you don't know the chemical composition, it's kind of hard to say in my opinion.,

agreed, best is no glue

 

[victormanriquey]

The point is that it's harder to learn to loop with hurricane than with your easier to play andro r45 rubbers for instance. Yes sure, with good technical training and a good coach that all can work out, but that is utopia for most. There is simply not good enough coaching available in most clubs.

This is also true @jk1980 , even though I like H3N, I have to agree with the fact that H3 (or H3N) needs a different technique and if you cannot learn it from a coach or fellow good player, it is harder. I learn from the chinese at our club when I started and then watching many youtube videos, but it was not easy

but still it seems to be very hard for 18 year old non muscular boys to loop with unboosted hurricanes.

H3N is made for boosting, and its already very physically demanded when boosted, unboosted is only to get a first feeling and get used to how it plays, but not to play with it often. Also, not every blade fits with hard and tacky chinese rubbers, it's easier to play with soft and flexy blades initially

I will say this though: I just came back from 3 hours of training with my newly glued PPP+H3N and I haven’t had more fun playing TT in a long while. I felt much safer, landing loops and drives with significantly higher percentage. If course, I had to work hard for it, but that is what I was after. I certainly didn't feel I was lacking in speed (in my personal perception, compared to my normal training, that is). However, I don’t think the blade should be very much thinner, as @Tyce says.

One slight surprise was how tame the Nuzn 45 felt on the PPP; nice touch though, so just have to get used to it.

Only small drawback for me with PPP is the flared handle, I cannot get really comfortable with it, the way HAL’s ST handle fits my grip. Therefore, since my friend got me two H3N, I might go for Victor’s tip of slapping the other to my Hugo HAL. That way, if/when trying the other blade, I don’t change more than one parameter.

And yes this is the other side of H3N, its just fun to play with and very safe when unboosted or only lightly boosted, grip is insane and spin also, plus a great arc And indeed PPP good choice @Doppelschlag for now.

And yeah, handle is a big thing, im picky on those, so I prefer a blade that doesnt fit me 100% with a handle that fits me 100% as opposed to the opposite

 

[victormanriquey]

One last thing I'll mention here, from my own personal experience lately: I'm getting older (closer to 40 than to 30), and I dont train as much as I did before (I once run a full marathon, so I was good in shape, not anymore 😂 ) and nowadays I feel the H3N in my muscles after 2h or so, the body gets tired faster and in long tournaments condition is an issue if yo go far in the bracket, so it is very possible that at some point I will stop using the H3N and just take something easier on my body, I knew this would happen one day though

But regardless of that, the way that H3N taught me to hit-brush and loop, I would not change for anything! It teaches you to add power that you can later on use on most rubbers out there

 

[DBsystem78]

One last thing I'll mention here, from my own personal experience lately: I'm getting older (closer to 40 than to 30), and I dont train as much as I did before (I once run a full marathon, so I was good in shape, not anymore 😂 ) and nowadays I feel the H3N in my muscles after 2h or so, the body gets tired faster and in long tournaments condition is an issue if yo go far in the bracket, so it is very possible that at some point I will stop using the H3N and just take something easier on my body, I knew this would happen one day though

But regardless of that, the way that H3N taught me to hit-brush and loop, I would not change for anything! It teaches you to add power that you can later on use on most rubbers out there

That is what happened to me recently i just change from H3N to Rxton 9 nat for this reason it was demanding physically too much after 30 min my leg is giving up now its better but the rubber doesn't grab the ball like the H3N so now trying to play more on speed and counter than pure spin like before

 

[victormanriquey]

That is what happened to me recently i just change from H3N to Rxton 9 nat for this reason it was demanding physically too much after 30 min my leg is giving up now its better but the rubber doesn't grab the ball like the H3N so now trying to play more on speed and counter than pure spin like before

Yeah I think at some point the legs cant take the demands of H3N anymore, this will happen to all players at different ages depending on condition, play style, training per week etc.

And ofc you can keep on playing with H3N differently, more brushing and no aggresive hit-brush, but then I would almost say, a hybrid will likely bring more benefits to that game for much less effort

But as mentioned before, the way to generate power with the body and hit-brush into the sponge is still a golden thing to understand for any other rubber, you get to unlock much more power for any rubber in this way!

 

[Kilogramme]

@victormanriquey – another splendid article!

I’ll continue my question here since it might be of broader interest.

I’m now ready to dip my toes into H3N territory. The plan is to use Nuzn 45 on BH and H3N Provincial Orange on FH.

TL;DR: Slap the H3N on the PPP for max feel and learning, or on HAL for more punch directly? My level: German ~1100

I currently have three blade options:

• Hugo HAL (ST) – currently paired with FH Tibhar MK-FX & Andro Nuzn 45
• Donic Persson Powerplay (FL) [PPP] – currently TIbhar Evolution FX-S / Xiom Vega Europe VII
• Donic Smirnov Inner Carbon (ST) – nothin special glued to it

I don’t yet have a formal rating, but I make life hard for players in my club that have ~1200 German ranking.
I’m now trying to return to fundamentals and focus on technique development. I might have been a bit overambitious with HAL, even if its feel is very nice.

After some recent testing, I felt significantly more secure with the PPP compared to the HAL. I also tried a friend’s defensive setup (Victas Koji Matsushita with H3N on FH), which felt surprisingly good and not too dead, the blade in my estimation not very unlike the PPP in feel.

That said, the HAL with H3N will likely be slower than the PPP anyway. On the other hand again, reading

My question is:
Will the PPP be too slow/dead with H3N, or is that actually ideal for maximizing feel and technical development?


@victormanriquey – you spontaneously said HAL, which made my very uncertain, haha; I was expecting you to suggest PPP after reading, and I quote you: “Combined with a soft flexible blade the feedback [of H3N] is fantastic.” You also recommend alway trying unbolted first. Further, in your Best Intermediate Table Tennis Blades blog post, you basically only recommend softer blades that are in the PPP ball park. So now I’m more confused than ever, haha

Would love feedback from you and also the amazing community here.

PS. Another reason for my question was the quote by the ever super reviewer @doppelmoral :



PPS. More info on the blades for comparison:

and

Don't listen to people that says H3N is bad choice to improve your game. Listen to Victor. I agree with him, on keeping the PPP. The HAL is too quick blade, even with H3N non boosted. Plus, the flex and softness of your PPP will help you feel the ball and more importantly know what you receive and put into the ball. I don't know what german ranking means in comparison to french one. But even at my level (top5% in france), HAL and other Viscaria like are super quick even for me. Speed is not important at lower level. Even at mine, I lose most of my matches, because my return ball have bad quality, or I do an unforced error. You can climb to a high level, just without making mistakes yourself. Then, alongside that, if your ball is spinny, and reliable on the table, it is already very good. Speed is nice, but you can climb to top 5% in Germany for sure, without much of it.
I have an excellent fast spinny 3rd ball attack, and trust me, it is not making me win the most matches. But reducing the number of unforced error did. It does not mean, you should stop working on your best shot, but you should focus on removing the unforced error, or easy ball to attack for the opponent. That is why, I changed my fast tenergy to a slower more controlled Hurricane 8-80 in BH.

 

[victormanriquey]

Don't listen to people that says H3N is bad choice to improve your game. Listen to Victor.

haha appreciate the support but it's always good to see what others are saying even though you can later decide to do your own thing, never bad to compare opinions, but thanks for the inconditional support

Speed is not important at lower level. Even at mine, I lose most of my matches, because my return ball have bad quality, or I do an unforced error.

Yes this is indeed the truth of amateur games, we never lose on speed against similar rivals, but on errors on many other things: footwork, lack of good technique, bad tactics, nerves, tiredness, etc.

I have an excellent fast spinny 3rd ball attack, and trust me, it is not making me win the most matches. But reducing the number of unforced error did. It does not mean, you should stop working on your best shot, but you should focus on removing the unforced error, or easy ball to attack for the opponent.

Yeah consistency usually matters more than raw power, specially as the ball gets faster and opponents stronger, sometimes a block does more damage than a strong counter, even though it looks less spectacular and cool

 

[Kilogramme]

haha appreciate the support but it's always good to see what others are saying even though you can later decide to do your own thing, never bad to compare opinions, but thanks for the inconditional support


Yes this is indeed the truth of amateur games, we never lose on speed against similar rivals, but on errors on many other things: footwork, lack of good technique, bad tactics, nerves, tiredness, etc.

Yeah consistency usually matters more than raw power, specially as the ball gets faster and opponents stronger, sometimes a block does more damage than a strong counter, even though it looks less spectacular and cool

Well indeed, I support you. I agree with your POV on table tennis and equipment, so it makes sense. + you did a good job on your blog, so it is worth quoting you and your work.

This WE, I lost 2 matches on stronger ranked player, mainly due to me struggling to return their serve. I could not avoid returning middle long area. Me who is struggling on blocking, and passive game, I got destroyed. But when the point was getting longer, in rallye, and I could use my FH, I switch the point into my favor. Unfortunately, most of their attack was point win for them. This is where table tennis is tough. You train hard with plenty of exercise, but serve return is a bit of a surprise and unknown at every matches. I find lateral ball really hard to deal with. If you push the ball goes high, if you flip, 50% chance net, or out depending of the other type of spin (lateral top or lateral backspin). On the other hand, on my serve, I could have done a good amount of point win, because of my 3rd/5th ball attack game.
All this story telling, just to say, even if I produce the speediest attack in my club (and very spinny) , I lose on slow/dead game. If you can master this area with H3N, and alongside that develop the hit-brush technique, you will improve a lot in ranking and game.

 

[ttarc]

Interesting point, thanks for elaborating. As I wrote above, H3N felt very instructive on the get-go, and not really lacking in speed or control, even if I had to work very hard for it. Maybe HAL would have been the even better fit, have you had any experience with this combo?

TTGearLab wrote: "Those two shows similar values of Ec/Ep and Vl/Vp, but ‘Hugo HAL’ shows significantly higher values of Ep and Vl than ‘Persson PowerPlay’. Therefore, if a player who is using ‘Persson PowerPlay’ (original version without the adjunct ‘Senso’) but wants to replace it by harder and faster blade, ‘Hugo HAL’ can be direct solution." https://ttgearlab.com/2023/08/07/xiom-hugo-hal-lab-test-report/

Regarding its speed: the HAL is only as fast or even slower than many 7-ply blades (at some point these fiber blades are simply more efficient and therefore faster but not inherently). Same with modern inner carbon blades like the Cybershape, Falck Carbon, Ovtcharov ALC, Anders Lind Hexa Carbon etc.

Only problem with the HAL is that Xiom stopped producing it...

One last thing I'll mention here, from my own personal experience lately: I'm getting older (closer to 40 than to 30), and I dont train as much as I did before (I once run a full marathon, so I was good in shape, not anymore 😂 ) and nowadays I feel the H3N in my muscles after 2h or so, the body gets tired faster and in long tournaments condition is an issue if yo go far in the bracket, so it is very possible that at some point I will stop using the H3N and just take something easier on my body, I knew this would happen one day though

But regardless of that, the way that H3N taught me to hit-brush and loop, I would not change for anything! It teaches you to add power that you can later on use on most rubbers out there

I'm even older but don't see me switching to a hybrid anytime soon. Compared to a well boosted H3N BS hybrids like the K3 are like bad sportscars: fast in the straight line but slow and unpredictable around the corners. On an all-wood or inner carbon blade I might switch earlier. Especially inner-carbon is tricky because one has to hit quite hard compared to outer-carbon blades to get these blades into their operating range and get quality out.