Different (fiber) blade philosophies

[Tyce]

I've been thinking about this after seeing yet another interesting looking blade popping up, only to be disappointed again by high weight and thick composition.

In my perception, most "Euro" type carbon+fiber blades are (currently) marketed in the 85g range, and are often designed to keep a little bit of flex with thickness under 6mm.
This mostly applies to Butterfly, too.

Chinese carbon+fiber blades are generally thicker, but most importantly heavier, with 90g as the usual advertised weight.

There is some crossover, obviously, because people mix and match all the time, but it seems to me that the increased weight and power in Chinese blades is meant to be paired with Chinese rubbers, and the lighter Euro/Jap blades are meant to be paired with more bouncy rubbers. (The most obvious crossovers here being H3 on Viscaria FH, and T05/D05 on W968 BH.)

I wonder if this extends into all-wood blades too, and if it means that blades like Clipper Wood are more suited to Chinese rubbers (especially the harder variants), and say a Primorac Wood if better off with soft EuroJaps or even classic rubbers.
Also, what would be the drawbacks going for a blade that's somewhere in the middle? Does it make more sense, especially for beginners to low intermediates, to use something that is better at one of these rubber styles?

And then of course we have blades that are purposely attempting to combine properties, would that increase suitability for hybrid rubbers? Or would you say that the blade matters much less when you go towards hybrids?

 

[Haito]

I wonder if this extends into all-wood blades too, and if it means that blades like Clipper Wood are more suited to Chinese rubbers (especially the harder variants), and say a Primorac Wood if better off with soft EuroJaps or even classic rubbers.
Also, what would be the drawbacks going for a blade that's somewhere in the middle? Does it make more sense, especially for beginners to low intermediates, to use something that is better at one of these rubber styles?

Welp, I've been preaching the religion of thin 7 ply for intermediates, I think it was under 6mm.

Stiff enough to block, flexible enough to loop. It does prove to be a sweet spot for a lot of players.

When working with Chinese Tackies, I always want something faster :/

 

[belllfador]

In general, H3 (as typical Chinese rubber) is harder and difficult to engage. So, blades with some flex can improve that. But, H3 also lacks speed, is bad at blocking - and we are back with the faster and stiffer blade just to cover the issues. For example, Long 5 can be a middle ground for me, but others will prefer Viscaria.

In reality, blade choice is something personal. It can affect specific aspects of your game, but it will never be the best in everything. Start from your play stile, your most effective hits, your weaknesses. After that, choose your equipment accordingly and try new equipment with small deviations from the old.

Generalization of blade properties by number of layers can be misleading. Some examples: 106 grams, 5ply Diode V is faster and stiffer than 7ply Andro cs7. 3ply Hinoki at 6.8mm thickness, is faster than JRE with 5+2 composition. Innershield, with 5+2 layers, is the slowest and most flexible blade that I have.

 

[Archosaurus]

In general, H3 (as typical Chinese rubber) is harder and difficult to engage. So, blades with some flex can improve that.

I don't really understand this. With a more flexible blade, you will need to put in more power to deflect the sponge a given amount. How does it make it easier to engage?

 

[Haito]

I don't really understand this. With a more flexible blade, you will need to put in more power to deflect the sponge a given amount. How does it make it easier to engage?

It feels like a trampoline. Not sure if that is what it is scientifically. It feels like with the right stroke when it flexes back it pushes the sponge back into the ball.

Again just posting subjective feelings when you hit the ball just right. You have to get the ball mire near the edge. I am guessing that is why older looping blades used to be elongated. Like the old hl5...

 

[Haito]

Expanding on previous post.

What i keant by hitting it right. If the racket handle does not rotate. Some players play top spin stroke without rotating the racket hand, more of pushing or shoving motion (I do not think that technique has a high ceiling for spin). Then you will never feel the flex.

If you have the technique were the racket is catching and releasing the ball, while rotating in relation to your wrist (movement on the stroke plane), then I feel a feedback from the racket feeling like the ball is weighing and on the racket and releasing.

 

[belllfador]

I don't really understand this. With a more flexible blade, you will need to put in more power to deflect the sponge a given amount. How does it make it easier to engage?

Looping with H3 requires more brushing and less punching. Longer arc with higher speed, all body in motion.

More flex = more contact time = easy looping.
Also, more flex = higher throw = easy looping with low throw rubbers.

 

[Tyce]

I never understood the idea of Chinese rubbers on a flexible 5ply, but then again my flexible 5ply had a small head size. So much I don't yet understand, and meanwhile I'm playing something that's supposed to be good enough for everyone, but it also feels meh in most aspects including safety.

 

[Haito]

I never understood the idea of Chinese rubbers on a flexible 5ply, but then again my flexible 5ply had a small head size. So much I don't yet understand, and meanwhile I'm playing something that's supposed to be good enough for everyone, but it also feels meh in most aspects including safety.

Yeah, I've done that, I highly recommend nobody does this. Ever. It was like 8 years ago, but i do remember it was really hard to keep the ball out of the net.

 

[belllfador]

I never understood the idea of Chinese rubbers on a flexible 5ply, but then again my flexible 5ply had a small head size. So much I don't yet understand, and meanwhile I'm playing something that's supposed to be good enough for everyone, but it also feels meh in most aspects including safety.

In general, flexible 5ply is for beginers. For someone advanced, the same 5ply can be a limitation. If you rely on looping with chinese rubber, try something faster and stiffer. Classics like Cliper CR can be a step-up. Step two can be an inner carbon blade with a soft top layer. Such as JRE, the new name Joola PROline ONE, or the cheaper and more linear Spinlord Ultra Carbon. Both with ayous core, both with koto second layer and 3k carbon.

 

[Tyce]

Funny thing. I went from that 5ply, to a Clipper and now to a soft inner with Innerforce Layer ALC. A hinoki topped 3+2 also pairs nicely with Chinese.
Honestly I don't like the Innerforce ALC with Hurricane and Clipper just had wrong shapes and sizes that didn't feel comfortable. I can see the potential though as it kind of worked when I had Rxton 3 Pro on it.
Sanwei Fextra does pair well with H3 and also Mercury 2. I could try to fit grip tape to beef up the flat handle a bit.

I think Innerforce Layer ALC is a bit weird. It does kinda work with most rubbers, even H3N if I'm fair, but there's always something off. It just doesn't behave like I expect it to. Not flexible enough to get high dwell on opening up, and not stiff enough to be stable on a compact drive over the table. It tries to be everything but ends up being only capable of handling rubber well that is trying the same thing.

 

[Archosaurus]

Fextra 7 works quite well with Battle 2. I don't imagine why it wouldn't work with H3.

 

[Tyce]

It does work with H3. Battle 2 is a different story, I'm not touching that stuff again. Or anything 729/Friendship for that matter.

 

[Haito]

It does work with H3. Battle 2 is a different story, I'm not touching that stuff again. Or anything 729/Friendship for that matter.

Why? The non-commercial stuff is quite good. Commercial B2 is way to sticky.

 

[Tyce]

Why? The non-commercial stuff is quite good. Commercial B2 is way to sticky.

I always have glue problems with their blue sponge, it feels super hydrophobic and glue just doesn't stick well to it. B2 blue sponge also felt nothing like H3, lifeless and mushy at the same time straight out of the package.
I would not be surprised if the sponge is exactly the same thing between battle 2 and Super FX. And then you still have the amazing speed at which the topsheet oxidizes. Like it's designed to be shelved rather than played.

The most attractive H3N alternative I've played is Dianchi D. But might as well get the real deal at that point.

 

[belllfador]

I always have glue problems with their blue sponge, it feels super hydrophobic and glue just doesn't stick well to it. B2 blue sponge also felt nothing like H3, lifeless and mushy at the same time straight out of the package.
I would not be surprised if the sponge is exactly the same thing between battle 2 and Super FX. And then you still have the amazing speed at which the topsheet oxidizes. Like it's designed to be shelved rather than played.

The most attractive H3N alternative I've played is Dianchi D. But might as well get the real deal at that point.

Never had issues with the glue on my H3Ns, boosted with falco platinum. I am using Sueke and DHS No 15. I can recommend provincial TG3 BS as H3 alternative. Topsheet quality is better, but the sponge hardness is lottery around 58 shore O.

 

[Haito]

Never had issues with the glue on my H3Ns, boosted with falco platinum. I am using Sueke and DHS No 15. I can recommend provincial TG3 BS as H3 alternative. Topsheet quality is better, but the sponge hardness is lottery around 58 shore O.

the comment was about issues with b2 gluing

 

[Egon]

only to be disappointed again by high weight

When playing with two attacking and therefore more heavier rubbers, a heavier setup with a handle-heavy balance is better than a lighter one with a blade-heavy balance. You need to look at the balance of the blade.

 

[jonol]

I think it's true in a general sense.

Blades that are very soft/flexy or very stiff/hard might feel quite awkward to play with certain rubbers.

I think most blades are made with enough of a balance that they work with most rubbers. Clipper is a good example of using soft wood but with stiff construction, works with just about anything.