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Dignics 09c vs DHS Hurricane 3 Blue versions
- Thread starter deepanmania
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- forehand rubber
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Ma Long FH, FZD BH
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Ma Long FH, FZD BH
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by the reports of G09C it is slower than dignics 09c with less spin and therefore seems kinda pointless to buy for a relatively high price (at least in my opinion, i would like a better rubber for its $54 USD price). If you want something more controlled than D09C then why not just get H3 Blue like you asked in the beginning. If you are worried about speed after boosting then you can play it unboosted if you wish, it will feel kinda dead on attacking shots but way more controlled in short game and you’ll find it easy to land balls on the table, even if they are slow. The spin tho will be much higher than G09C and the speed will be slightly the same, if not G09C slightly faster but I would think it’s no difference. Also H3 Blue is wayyyy more durable than G09C, the latter is also less durable than D09C
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Active Member
I don’t know your level, but if you amateur that trained two-three times a week than g09c would be better choice for you. It is easier to handle, it is softer, very good spin, it is more controllable, and cost half price of d09c. You will achieve stability faster with g09c for sure - and stability is the most important thing in amateur circle 😉
But you need to work on body engagement with it - I think it’s good thing for amateurs also
Not spinny according to "no tack - no spin" people? G09c has plenty of spin
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Active Member
People who are telling g09c has no spin, are definitely didn’t have technique for medium hard hybrid rubbers. They just prefer 05fx or other soft tensors, or just put boosters on everything that are doing half of the work for them and get used to that kind of feeling - it’s okay
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1-sided penhold is cool
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1-sided penhold is cool
Member
I play with unboosted Chinese rubber and it doesn't feel dead on hard shots. You just need to brush the ball to get some speed -- it will be dead if you flat hit, but it's very elastic when you hit the ball at a sharp angle. Your attacking shots need to have some degree of spin in them.
But make no mistake -- I can hit harder with Skyline and Hurricane than I can with Tenergy.
Watch Ma Lin absolutely kill the ball using Skyline 2 rubbers (and an all-wood blade!):
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says
Ma Long FH, FZD BH
says
Ma Long FH, FZD BH
Active Member
I agree that if you hit hard enough with an unboosted chinese rubber it can be fast, but when you don’t hit hard it is a slow, controlled spinny shot. When boosted, it is faster and when i hit a very strong FH topsin, it was miles faster than previous FH rubbers I have tried before (T05H, D80, G1, K3)
says
Ma Long FH, FZD BH
says
Ma Long FH, FZD BH
Active Member
I never said it has no spin; hell, idek how much spin it has as i have never tried before. But I am just giving my predictions based on the rubbers I have used that are frequently compared to G09C and other peoples reports, which feel that although it is a good spin rubber, there is just more spin and speed with D09C, and way more spin and similar speed to H3 Blue
It's not only about G09c. I often see statements like "it's not tacky thus not spinny", above even someone said that non-tacky rubbers hit the table only because of gravity and Magnuss effect is not applicable to them :faceplam. Just too much of BS speaking.
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1-sided penhold is cool
says
1-sided penhold is cool
Member
Also, for what it's worth, I think you might also consider Skyline 2. It's typically used by penholders, but it has some desirable properties that I think one misses with Hurricane.
For example, with Hurricane you need to make prolonged contact with the ball using a big stroke in order to hit fast. But with Skyline you can generate a lot of spin and speed with a very short stroke. The downside is that you can't flat hit the ball or it will be very dead. But if you make a spinny shot, it will be very fast.
I mostly play penhold, but I also like to use Skyline 2 when playing handshake. Skyline 2 also comes with blue sponge. Something to consider.
For example, with Hurricane you need to make prolonged contact with the ball using a big stroke in order to hit fast. But with Skyline you can generate a lot of spin and speed with a very short stroke. The downside is that you can't flat hit the ball or it will be very dead. But if you make a spinny shot, it will be very fast.
I mostly play penhold, but I also like to use Skyline 2 when playing handshake. Skyline 2 also comes with blue sponge. Something to consider.
says
1-sided penhold is cool
says
1-sided penhold is cool
Member
I encourage you to go back and carefully read what I said regarding gravity vs Magnus effect. I was talking about high throw angle rubbers, not non-tacky rubbers. High throw angle rubbers take advantage of the arc created by gravity. It is also entirely possible for them to ALSO take advantage of the Magnus effect. But these are two different and independent ways to create arc.
Just stop it 🤣 🤣 🤣
You can launch the ball high with a low throw rubber and keep it low with a high throw rubber and in both cases both effects will work.
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Active Member
Yeah if Ma Lin could do it, than everyone else can?
I think its the total opposite of that in reality
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Active Member
says
1-sided penhold is cool
says
1-sided penhold is cool
Member
This might be true in principle, but it is certainly not true in practice. Certain strokes will be more natural with a high throw rubber, and certain other strokes will be more natural with a low throw rubber. Playing the same stroke with a different rubber is not as simple as just opening or closing the racket angle.
For example, looping the ball from below the table is much easier with a low throw rubber. Flicking underspin is much easier with a high throw rubber. The angle of the paddle cannot always be adjusted to play an equivalent stroke. Even if it can, this adjustment often makes the stroke much more difficult/risky to play.
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Active Member
For me is just simple as that. If I see that the ball is coming off the table I just close it more while lopping/brushing, if it goes to the net - obviously I will open racket angle more. But I don’t disagree that for some other people it can be very different/difficult in feeling/adjusting both technically and mentally. Everyone is different.
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1-sided penhold is cool
says
1-sided penhold is cool
Member
But surely you must acknowledge that having a high throw angle helps you play over the table against underspin. And I imagine you don't do a lot of looping from below the table, because this is hard to do with high-throw rubber. Throw angle definitely affects playing style subconsciously, by encouraging the shots that are easier to make with that rubber.
It's objectively harder to flick underspin with a low throw rubber -- you have to generate more lift because your rubber is not giving it to you. Likewise, it is objectively harder to loop from under the table with a high-throw rubber -- you need to be much more precise with your angle. In fact, in some cases the geometry of looping below the table just doesn't work out with high-throw rubber -- the angles are just impossible because you have to close your racket while simultaneously hitting the ball upwards.
Why? You can send it more forward than upward. For short balls below the table it's more important to grab the ball and keep it long on the rubber while making arc with your hand and accelerating. I'd say it's easier with dwelly rubbers and elastic topsheet
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
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Glory to Ukraine 🇺🇦
Active Member
Can you explain please what you mean by “looping from below the table”? If you mean looping against underspin or just the ball that falling off - than I can do it easily. And anyway I can do pretty all the strokes with any decent rubber I don’t care the “throw angle” of it. I will do two-three loops and then will adjust according to the ball curve.
You making an mistake judging by your own technique and experience/abilities but I’m telling you everyone is different and if a player can’t perform some strokes with decent quality rubber - it’s a technique issue not the rubber
Of course every rubber has its own advantages and every player had its own preferences - so you can choose what’s up to you.
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@greenbeanmachine,
Pip configurations, topsheet material which influences elasticity and grip as well as pip configuration harmonizing wirh sponge, sponge hardness, sponge compressibility/elasticity all work together to give a rubber its playing characteristics. What a rubber does varies across a wide range of impacts etc.
I hate speaking about "throw" in rubber reviews because a lot of it can depend on the stroke of the player. But in terms of understanding that pip configuration can affect the exit angle of the ball on various shots, the classic article and video on the Tenergy series is still the gold standard for understanding how exit angle can be affected by pip configuration and sponge hardness. So when people say Tenergy 05 or Dignics 05 have a high throw relative to Tenergy 80 or Dignics 80, I can understand where they are coming from because those comparisons hold sponge hardness and materials and elasticity constant and the main difference is topsheet pip configurations and length which impacts how the pips deform in response to the incoming ball and the exit angle of the ball on some shots. But I have never understood it as a gravity thing, it is always an exit angle thing and to the degree that topsheet grip and pip configuration encourages tangential acceleration to promote rotation, it is then a spin thing. But the exit angle assumes that racket angle is constant - when people swing, they are often changing racket angles and speeds etc. so things might not work the same way for different players.
Sometimes topsheets can be thicker or thinner and sponges harder or softer and these can all affect the exit angle. The main reason why hard tacky rubbers are liked so much whether boosted or unboosted is because they allow for thick impacts without the ball jumping off the paddle quickly. While the effort to produce such impacts may be higher, the exiting ball quality tends to be uniquely different vs rubbers that do not allow for such degrees of compression. That said, when such rubbers are used at relatively lower level of swing speed, the results may be underwhelming in ball quality because it is harder to engage the sponge and the pips and the topsheet to get good elasticity which will add a slingshot effect that adds speed and spin. This is especially true for unboosted hard rubbers. But the elastic effect and the slingshot effect of the rubber is extremely important for spin and speed generation at the higher levels so at that level very few players will play with anything unboosted because speed especially and spin are at a premium.
I have gone back and forth on whether I believe tacky rubbers are spinniner than non-tacky rubbers. In fact, my standard answer hiatorically has always been that non-tacky rubbers are faster and spinnier than tacky rubbers all things being equal, but that the benefit of tacky rubbers is that they hold the ball longer and allow you impart a greater turning effect on the ball which allows someone with excess power to generate more spin on higher energy contacts and with less precision - the main problemwith non-tacky rubbers is that your angle/contact needs to be precise early on thicker impacts. But for someone who swings at moderate speeds or from off the table with power, non-tacky rubbers are easier to spin with and get good speed. But for someone with enough energy and the timing to get thick impacts, the ball holding property of tacky might be of some benefit so they can impart more energy into their swing and give it rotation. Modern rubbers combine elements of both with high grip and tack for more ball holding and good sponge elasticity for more spin generation.
Long story short, I broadly agree with @SleepyMaster that most modern rubbers allow you to play all the shots with some modifications to your stroke. I wouldn't call it racket angle, it is more stroke path and swing speed. Most modern rubbers have some element of boosting or use of good rubber materials to get some elasticity for spin that can be enhanced with boosting to improve compression.
Throw, however, is about exit angle based on pip configuration. But for each player, throw can be affected on specific balls by contact point and swing trajectory and swing speed and impact depth to the point that two players can have different opinions on the same rubber based on how they prefer to hit the ball. In fact, someone who hits the ball hard with power loops on most shots vs backspin might argue that Hurricane or Skyline has a higher throw or more arc than Dignicis 09c because he can land shots using Hurricane that he cannot land with Dignics 09c. This is what sometimes makes using the phrase "throw" so confusing.
But please, I don't see where gravity has a role in any of this that is meaningful. I can be convinced though I suspect it would be very difficult.
Pip configurations, topsheet material which influences elasticity and grip as well as pip configuration harmonizing wirh sponge, sponge hardness, sponge compressibility/elasticity all work together to give a rubber its playing characteristics. What a rubber does varies across a wide range of impacts etc.
I hate speaking about "throw" in rubber reviews because a lot of it can depend on the stroke of the player. But in terms of understanding that pip configuration can affect the exit angle of the ball on various shots, the classic article and video on the Tenergy series is still the gold standard for understanding how exit angle can be affected by pip configuration and sponge hardness. So when people say Tenergy 05 or Dignics 05 have a high throw relative to Tenergy 80 or Dignics 80, I can understand where they are coming from because those comparisons hold sponge hardness and materials and elasticity constant and the main difference is topsheet pip configurations and length which impacts how the pips deform in response to the incoming ball and the exit angle of the ball on some shots. But I have never understood it as a gravity thing, it is always an exit angle thing and to the degree that topsheet grip and pip configuration encourages tangential acceleration to promote rotation, it is then a spin thing. But the exit angle assumes that racket angle is constant - when people swing, they are often changing racket angles and speeds etc. so things might not work the same way for different players.
Sometimes topsheets can be thicker or thinner and sponges harder or softer and these can all affect the exit angle. The main reason why hard tacky rubbers are liked so much whether boosted or unboosted is because they allow for thick impacts without the ball jumping off the paddle quickly. While the effort to produce such impacts may be higher, the exiting ball quality tends to be uniquely different vs rubbers that do not allow for such degrees of compression. That said, when such rubbers are used at relatively lower level of swing speed, the results may be underwhelming in ball quality because it is harder to engage the sponge and the pips and the topsheet to get good elasticity which will add a slingshot effect that adds speed and spin. This is especially true for unboosted hard rubbers. But the elastic effect and the slingshot effect of the rubber is extremely important for spin and speed generation at the higher levels so at that level very few players will play with anything unboosted because speed especially and spin are at a premium.
I have gone back and forth on whether I believe tacky rubbers are spinniner than non-tacky rubbers. In fact, my standard answer hiatorically has always been that non-tacky rubbers are faster and spinnier than tacky rubbers all things being equal, but that the benefit of tacky rubbers is that they hold the ball longer and allow you impart a greater turning effect on the ball which allows someone with excess power to generate more spin on higher energy contacts and with less precision - the main problemwith non-tacky rubbers is that your angle/contact needs to be precise early on thicker impacts. But for someone who swings at moderate speeds or from off the table with power, non-tacky rubbers are easier to spin with and get good speed. But for someone with enough energy and the timing to get thick impacts, the ball holding property of tacky might be of some benefit so they can impart more energy into their swing and give it rotation. Modern rubbers combine elements of both with high grip and tack for more ball holding and good sponge elasticity for more spin generation.
Long story short, I broadly agree with @SleepyMaster that most modern rubbers allow you to play all the shots with some modifications to your stroke. I wouldn't call it racket angle, it is more stroke path and swing speed. Most modern rubbers have some element of boosting or use of good rubber materials to get some elasticity for spin that can be enhanced with boosting to improve compression.
Throw, however, is about exit angle based on pip configuration. But for each player, throw can be affected on specific balls by contact point and swing trajectory and swing speed and impact depth to the point that two players can have different opinions on the same rubber based on how they prefer to hit the ball. In fact, someone who hits the ball hard with power loops on most shots vs backspin might argue that Hurricane or Skyline has a higher throw or more arc than Dignicis 09c because he can land shots using Hurricane that he cannot land with Dignics 09c. This is what sometimes makes using the phrase "throw" so confusing.
But please, I don't see where gravity has a role in any of this that is meaningful. I can be convinced though I suspect it would be very difficult.
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