Dignics on a Budget?! | Glayzer vs Glayzer 09C Review

[JJ Ng]

Apparently the DHS sponsorship deal stipulates that at least one DHS rubber must be used (perhaps on FH). I'm not saying they would choose a different rubber, just that at present they don't have a choice as such.
Regarding BH rubbers, in the past T05 was used a lot on that wing by the CNT players.

Agree. I am just a big proponent of Chinese, tacky rubber on the forehand side. A natural forehand loop goes well with Chinese rubber. Backhand stroke is more compact and an ESN/Butterly rubber does work better. Plus two Chinese dense rubbers do add a lot of weight to the blade.

I think someone on the forum talked about never trying the Chinese rubber on the forehand side because once you get used to it, you will never go back to ESN/Butterfly rubber. I am like, so what is wrong with that?

I have tried 5-ply wood and carbon blades in my years of playing and I have gone back to wood. I gave Viscaria and Acoustic carbon a shot. They are just "too hard" for me. I have recently found Tibhar Fortino performance to be a pretty good "slow" carbon for me so I am testing it out.

 

[Choosikick]

No, they use it because it is very good. At the top level, they don't play equipment that will take down their levels of playing. For example, Fan Zhendong was known to use Viscaria with a Stiga handle because he was sponsored by Stiga. It was an open secret. I imagine if Stiga could produce a blade to his liking he would not have used a "Viscaria with Stiga handle."

Now we can argue that the Chinese team gets special ordered rubber from DHS that you simply cannot find on the market, meaning all the "national" H3 neo's on the market are fake. Yeah maybe we can argue that. But there is no denying that the whole chinese team use hurricane on their forehand side because that gives them the edge. Their forehand strokes really do well with hurricane in general.

Some Korean players have also switched to H3 on their forehand side.

I personally have not found T05 to be able to generate spin close to what H3 neo can generate. I tried and tried to engage the sponge but T05 simply does not produce the same amount of spin as hurricane. In other words, when it comes to spin, yes the tackiness in the top sheet matters greatly.

Here the point is not only in strong rotation, but also in the variability of rotation and speed! Greater variability in spin of hurricane is the ability to send the ball with the strongest spin, or the ball with no spin at all, which causes huge problems for opponents. With eurotensors and tenergy this is not feasible - when attacking, the top rotation will always be more or less, but it is technically impossible to send the ball without rotation, like from a hurricane. Also, the sticky hurricane has variability in speed. A short sticky hurricane game is much better than Tenergy or evrotensors. That is, it is easier to vary the speed from almost zero speed to the maximum.
There is a fly in the ointment in this barrel of honey - the maximum speed is lower, but this is decided by athleticism and physical training. In addition, in a power rally, the ball already comes from the opponent with its own energy, which can be used in the opposite direction.

 

[Choosikick]

Agree. I am just a big proponent of Chinese, tacky rubber on the forehand side. A natural forehand loop goes well with Chinese rubber. Backhand stroke is more compact and an ESN/Butterly rubber does work better. Plus two Chinese dense rubbers do add a lot of weight to the blade.

I think someone on the forum talked about never trying the Chinese rubber on the forehand side because once you get used to it, you will never go back to ESN/Butterfly rubber. I am like, so what is wrong with that?

I have tried 5-ply wood and carbon blades in my years of playing and I have gone back to wood. I gave Viscaria and Acoustic carbon a shot. They are just "too hard" for me. I have recently found Tibhar Fortino performance to be a pretty good "slow" carbon for me so I am testing it out.

Agree. If you're young and strong, sticky, slow-moving Chinese-style rubbers are the best choice for forehand for the reasons I've described above, but what about older players? I don't think a hurricane would be the best choice for them.

 

[JJ Ng]

Agree. If you're young and strong, sticky, slow-moving Chinese-style rubbers are the best choice for forehand for the reasons I've described above, but what about older players? I don't think a hurricane would be the best choice for them.

I still think they should try Chinese rubber and make a decision if they want to stick with Chinese rubber v.s. ESN/Butterfly rubber. After all, maybe the older players like to spin the balls and finish the points quickly (maybe even finish the point on the serve). Or maybe the older players like the better over-the-table game.

 

[lodro]

but what about older players? I don't think a hurricane would be the best choice for them.

yes they are.... 😁

 

[disaster3]

Depending on whether you would like to glue, stick and forget. I think that I'm not so old but to lazy to play with boosting and all voodoo play around it before I stick rubber to the blade.
In case let say butterfly, I glue, wait for 30 minutes, stick together, cut and forget for about couple of months.
I saw one video with tutorial on boosting.... no, thank you very much!
But I admire those who are not pro and would like to play with boosting.... really respect

 

[IB66]

Agree. I am just a big proponent of Chinese, tacky rubber on the forehand side. A natural forehand loop goes well with Chinese rubber. Backhand stroke is more compact and an ESN/Butterly rubber does work better. Plus two Chinese dense rubbers do add a lot of weight to the blade.

I think someone on the forum talked about never trying the Chinese rubber on the forehand side because once you get used to it, you will never go back to ESN/Butterfly rubber. I am like, so what is wrong with that?

I have tried 5-ply wood and carbon blades in my years of playing and I have gone back to wood. I gave Viscaria and Acoustic carbon a shot. They are just "too hard" for me. I have recently found Tibhar Fortino performance to be a pretty good "slow" carbon for me so I am testing it out.

They used to twiddle the T05 to FH for smashes because it was generally faster and easier to finish these kinds of rallies.
At present I'm using regular Glayzer on BH and G09C on FH, (Profile shows Rakza Z / Rakza Z EH, I'll have to update!!)
I've tried T05, T19 and D09C, which I find are a little to fast / bouncy and difficult to control. I have also used H3Neo, H8 (mid hardness) H8-80 etc I prefer the hurricanes and tacky rubbers on FH wing,
D09C and G09C are only 'barely' tacky, they are virtually non tacky !!! but that slight tackiness does make a difference.

I use slow Carbon blades, defensive speed slow (7+2 ply)!!!

Stroke consistency, footwork etc are more important than equipment !!! (to start with!!! Then the EJ bug kicks in!!!)

 

[JJ Ng]

They used to twiddle the T05 to FH for smashes because it was generally faster and easier to finish these kinds of rallies.
At present I'm using regular Glayzer on BH and G09C on FH, (Profile shows Rakza Z / Rakza Z EH, I'll have to update!!)
I've tried T05, T19 and D09C, which I find are a little to fast / bouncy and difficult to control. I have also used H3Neo, H8 (mid hardness) H8-80 etc I prefer the hurricanes and tacky rubbers on FH wing,
D09C and G09C are only 'barely' tacky, they are virtually non tacky !!! but that slight tackiness does make a difference.

I use slow Carbon blades, defensive speed slow (7+2 ply)!!!

Stroke consistency, footwork etc are more important than equipment !!! (to start with!!! Then the EJ bug kicks in!!!)

Let me make a few comments.

I am in my mid-40's. I started playing since I was 14. Never played more than 2 times a week my whole life because univ. and graduate school and job just took much of my time. Stuck at around 1600-1700 level for 20 years already. I started with Sriver, then moved to Mark V, then Friendship 729, then Juic 999. Used to be penhold. In between I would quit table tennis for 1-3 years at a time. Recently got back into the game more regularly in the past 2 years.

So due to me not being young anymore, I switched from penhold to shakehand two years ago. I cannot do those step around forehand on the my backhand side anymore. Gained too much weight. Not as nimble. However, I still play like a penhold, being very very forehand dominant. The transition from a penholder to shakehander has been very smooth, partly because I did RPB before.

When I got back into the sport, my club coach gave me Viscaria plus Tenergy 05 fx on the forehand side and Tenergy 64 fx on the backhand side. Slowly I figured out, yeah, it was wayyyy too fast for me. So I am now using H3 neo on the forehand side with G-1 on the backhand side (I played with C-1 for a while to graduate to G-1 and I really really enjoyed C-1). I like C-1 and G-1 better than all the other ESN rubbers and Butterfly rubbers I have tried. I change my blade from Viscaria to Tibhar Stratus Power Wood and love love the wood feel. I just recently discovered Sanwei National Target where straight out of the package, I can play without boosting! I am excited about that. I also recently discovered Tibhar Fortino Performance, a slow blade carbon that I am planning to switch to soon.

Therefore, for old people like me, Chinese forehand rubber works very well. Obviously at my level I can still win some points right off the serve (once you get to 2000 level or above, that will become very very difficult). I love my over the table game. I love my long deep push (which can still score points for me but harder to do so at 2000 level or above; T05 fx and T64fx with carbon keeps on forcing me to hold back on my "brushing" of the ball because the ball really could go long). I love how on my forehand, I have a choice to do a fast loop drive or a slow spinning top spin with high arc (I doubt I can do that with Tenergy).

Quite frankly, when I am too old to use Chinese rubber (I don't think I will ever give up on Chinese rubber), I might as well join the dark side and put long pips on both sides, or short pips on the forehand side and long pips on the backhand side.

As for boosting, it is really not that bad. You just have to plan ahead to boost. But if I don't have to boost (Sanwei Target National, I am talking about you), then I would love not have to boost.

As for the longevity of the rubber, quite frankly, I have tore off some H3 neo off my current blades to some old blades. They really are still very tacky!!! I mean, they are not sticky (the days of pressing the hurricane on top of the ball and lifting the ball in the air for 3 seconds were long gone) but still good. The sponge also gets softer with age and I feel it is pretty springy with lots of control. I know that because the other side of these old blade, I would stick on some other ESN rubbers I tried before, so I get to compare both sides on the same paddle. So one side would be some old H3 neo and the other side of the same blade would be Rakza 7, Rakza 7 soft, Rakza X, EL-P, T05 fx, T60 fx, etc. etc. I have like 7-8 of them (I own 6 Tibhar Stratus Power Wood and various 5-ply wood blades).

Really, the old, softer sponge H3 neo still retains some bounce. Yes the catapult effect of H3 neo (new or old) is never as good as ESN/Tenergy but I find H3 neo ages gracefully so to be speak and can be a pretty good softer rubber over time.

I have actually noticed the T05 fx and T60 fx on these blades have lost A LOT of the tackiness already.

Also some of the "old" blades I put them on are my Viscaria, Acoustic Carbon and DHS Bo carbon. Yes, I do like wood and keep on going back to Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

So I think everyone should be a bit of an EJ to try a few things to find out what they truly like. When you find it, you will know.

Finally H3 neo is like $26 or $27 a sheet without discount. I am happy to buy three of them before I have to shell out for a Tenergy. For G-1, yes, that hurts. The price can come down a bit. It is an older ESN rubber so I wish Nittaku would lower the prices a bit. I am a bit of an EJ. And like I said in the other thread, I am happy to be an ex-butterfly EJ; being an EJ on Butterfly products will probably bankrupt me.

I also agree with another poster that if you know what you like (such as Butterfly), then just buy them and don't keep on experimenting around. You will end saving more money that way. I agree. However, if I did not experiment like I did, I would still be stuck with Viscaria with T05 on both sides by now and my game would suffer.

 

[superbackhand]

No, they use it because it is very good. At the top level, they don't play equipment that will take down their levels of playing. For example, Fan Zhendong was known to use Viscaria with a Stiga handle because he was sponsored by Stiga. It was an open secret. I imagine if Stiga could produce a blade to his liking he would not have used a "Viscaria with Stiga handle."

Now we can argue that the Chinese team gets special ordered rubber from DHS that you simply cannot find on the market, meaning all the "national" H3 neo's on the market are fake. Yeah maybe we can argue that. But there is no denying that the whole chinese team use hurricane on their forehand side because that gives them the edge. Their forehand strokes really do well with hurricane in general.

Some Korean players have also switched to H3 on their forehand side.

I personally have not found T05 to be able to generate spin close to what H3 neo can generate. I tried and tried to engage the sponge but T05 simply does not produce the same amount of spin as hurricane. In other words, when it comes to spin, yes the tackiness in the top sheet matters greatly.

so if 729 Friendship is their sponsor - are you certain that they still use DHS?

 

[JJ Ng]

so if 729 Friendship is their sponsor - are you certain that they still use DHS?

Don't know. I heard some good things about 729 Battleship II or Bloom sponge. I have never tried them.

Ping pong is the national sport of China. I doubt they will switch to a brand that will threaten their place in the world. I honestly do believe DHS is what they feel is best for their forehands. I don't know why people would argue otherwise.

Any top athletes want an edge. Like I said before, Fan Zhendong used a Viscaria blade with Stiga handle for many many years. Now that he is sponsored by Butterfly, he does not have to hide anymore.

So if Fan Zhendong was willing to hide his Viscaria, I am sure if DHS hurricane sucks, he would have put some other brands' rubbers on his forehand.

We are talking world class athletes here.

And I am sure many European table tennis players feel the same way. The reason why Dignics 09c is getting popular because people are finally admitting that "tackiness" on the forehand side of the rubber does matter. Well, the chinese players have already been using tacky rubbers on the forehand side for decades.

By the way, I have officially ditched H3 neo on my forehand side to favor Sanwei Target National. So far so good. I have put Sanwei Target National on my Tibhar Stratus Power Wood and my Acoustic carbon. After an hour, I am back to Tibhar Stratus Power Wood.

 

[Kopp]

I watched this review twice and compared with their review on BTY Rozena. Based on both reviews, it appears that Rozena is a superior rubber compared to the Glayzer series in terms of speed, spin, tolerance, and price. Maybe there's more?

 

[Lazer]

Maybe I’m biased but Rozena left me totally unimpressed, like Rakza 7 a lot better…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Wrighty67]

I watched this review twice and compared with their review on BTY Rozena. Based on both reviews, it appears that Rozena is a superior rubber compared to the Glayzer series in terms of speed, spin, tolerance, and price. Maybe there's more?

I would have to agree - I prefer Rozena as an all round, do it all rubber to Glayzer.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I watched this review twice and compared with their review on BTY Rozena. Based on both reviews, it appears that Rozena is a superior rubber compared to the Glayzer series in terms of speed, spin, tolerance, and price. Maybe there's more?

To me Rozena is a much better success than Glayzer 09c.

Rozena is half price of Tenergy and is basically 98% of the performance.

Glayzer 09c I would say is more like 80% of the performance of D09c, there is a much more noticeable gap.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Rozena is half price of Tenergy and is basically 98% of the performance.

So what is the 2% that Rozena doesn't have?

 

[Lazer]

To me Rozena is a much better success than Glayzer 09c.

Rozena is half price of Tenergy and is basically 98% of the performance.

Glayzer 09c I would say is more like 80% of the performance of D09c, there is a much more noticeable gap.

I can tell you one thing, Rozena reaches the knees of Tenergy.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[kapahoo]

My experience - Rozena has the speed of Tenergy but spin wise it is almost like playing with a short pips rubber.
The G09c is to me however a "regular modern rubber"; relatively hard sponge with a topsheet that has some stickiness. Not far of from, as I recall, D09c and other hybrids.

Rozena and Glayzer 09c are not rubbers that you choose one or the other from. Too different.

 

[Kopp]

To me Rozena is a much better success than Glayzer 09c.

Rozena is half price of Tenergy and is basically 98% of the performance.

Glayzer 09c I would say is more like 80% of the performance of D09c, there is a much more noticeable gap.

Although 98% a bit exaggerate, but I tend to agree with you.

I would have to agree - I prefer Rozena as an all round, do it all rubber to Glayzer.

The only drawback I've learned from some reviews is that the ball doesn't enough quality to kill at the top level, which is why no pros use this rubber. IDK. That doesn't matter for beginner or intermediate players like me, does it?

My experience - Rozena has the speed of Tenergy but spin wise it is almost like playing with a short pips rubber.
The G09c is to me however a "regular modern rubber"; relatively hard sponge with a topsheet that has some stickiness. Not far of from, as I recall, D09c and other hybrids.

Rozena and Glayzer 09c are not rubbers that you choose one or the other from. Too different.

You're right, BTY also confirmed about the speed. But the review said that Rozena is about 10% slower than T05. I'm not sure which one is correct. It's possible that the testing approach may be different.

The reviews from the Japanese national team show that this rubber can do just about anything if the techniques are right. So “Rozena is half price of Tenergy and is basically 98% of the performance.” maybe correct! Or at least 80-90%?

 

[JJ Ng]

Although 98% a bit exaggerate, but I tend to agree with you.

The only drawback I've learned from some reviews is that the ball doesn't enough quality to kill at the top level, which is why no pros use this rubber. IDK. That doesn't matter for beginner or intermediate players like me, does it?


You're right, BTY also confirmed about the speed. But the review said that Rozena is about 10% slower than T05. I'm not sure which one is correct. It's possible that the testing approach may be different.

The reviews from the Japanese national team show that this rubber can do just about anything if the techniques are right. So “Rozena is half price of Tenergy and is basically 98% of the performance.” maybe correct! Or at least 80-90%?

My club coach did not want to sell me Rozena. He thinks I should play with Tenergy or Dignics but I refuse to pay that much for rubber. I might try to get a sheet of Rozena somewhere!

 

[Kopp]

My club coach did not want to sell me Rozena. He thinks I should play with Tenergy or Dignics but I refuse to pay that much for rubber. I might try to get a sheet of Rozena somewhere!

It may not be the case for you, but I think it's common for clubs to want to make extra money on top of their coaching and membership fees.