Ebony Blades ?

[SenseiJM]

Ebony is a type of wood that is rarely used in blades. Why is that ? Is there something with the specifics of the wood that would turn them unusable as a blade veneer ?
Are there any blades that use this wood as one of the plies ?

 

[ttarc]

There are some blades with Ebony on the market: DHS PG15, Yinhe D607 Purple Dragon, Stiga Ebenholz NCT V, NCT VII and Emerald VPS V, 729 Ebony and Ebony King KLC, Loki V9. All have Ebony outer plies.

 

[SenseiJM]

But why is it only used on the outer ply, then ? What are the characteristics regarding ebony in the playing field ?

 

[lasta]

But why is it only used on the outer ply, then ? What are the characteristics regarding ebony in the playing field ?

1. Heavy, so you'll never find a pure ebony commercial blade. 2. It's probably the hardest and stiffest wood used in TT blades. The further apart the stiffest elements are from each other, the more it contributes to overall stiffness of the blade as a whole.

As for characteristics: generally harder feel, more uniform impact feel. Not sure if the term is correct, but it "spreads" the impact sensation over a wider area. Subjectively: boxy hollow feel.

 

[Manto76]

Ebony is a type of wood that is rarely used in blades. Why is that ? Is there something with the specifics of the wood that would turn them unusable as a blade veneer ?
Are there any blades that use this wood as one of the plies ?

Ebony is quite expensive and also quite heavy, which is why it isn't used all that much.
That said, there are a few blades around with ebony plies:
Andro Gauzy SL OFF
Stiga Ebenholz NCT (V and VII)
Stiga Emerald VPS V
Sunflex Zen OFF
Sanwei H5
XIOM used to make one as well (Omega Tour, I think?) but I don't think they do any more.
Nexy might have one as well. I'm not sure about that, but I know they have various hardwood models so worth checking out.

 

[VicVoc32]

What is the biggest different between Rosewood and Ebeny when it comes to playing characaristics?

 

[Andrea_Aschi]

I have a Stiga Ebenholz VII that has a ply of ebony. I don't know if it's because of the ebony but i find this blade too fast and uncontrollable. 😅

 

[Lycanthrope]

But why is it only used on the outer ply, then ? What are the characteristics regarding ebony in the playing field ?

Thick and hard ebony core means no distortion at all.

 

[SDC]

I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the top on the Gauzy SL Off is fineline. If that is the case, shame on you Andro...

Anyway, the reasons have been stated, Ebony is expensive, hard and heavy, so it's not easy to use it in a blade. There is also a more recent reason, the species (several of them actually) is protected by CITES, so using it is not as straightforward as it used to be. I don't know how TT brands are dealing with this issue, but Guitar companies were faced with the same problem with Rosewood, and stopped using it altogether moving on to other woods like Pau Ferro and other materials that imitate wood. Why is it only used in the top ply? Well, because it's expensive and pretty, it's a "waste" covering it with other woods, better off using carbon instead.

 

[Manto76]

I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the top on the Gauzy SL Off is fineline. If that is the case, shame on you Andro...

Wow - that's quite an accusation! It would be good to hear a reply from Andro on this if possible...

 

[Tinykin]

Ebony is quite expensive and also quite heavy, which is why it isn't used all that much.
That said, there are a few blades around with ebony plies:
Andro Gauzy SL OFF
Stiga Ebenholz NCT (V and VII)
Stiga Emerald VPS V
Sunflex Zen OFF
Sanwei H5
XIOM used to make one as well (Omega Tour, I think?) but I don't think they do any more.
Nexy might have one as well. I'm not sure about that, but I know they have various hardwood models so worth checking out.

Every now and then the posters on here amaze me with their knowledge😊🤓

 

[Haito]

Ebony is quite expensive and also quite heavy, which is why it isn't used all that much.
That said, there are a few blades around with ebony plies:
Andro Gauzy SL OFF
Stiga Ebenholz NCT (V and VII)
Stiga Emerald VPS V
Sunflex Zen OFF
Sanwei H5
XIOM used to make one as well (Omega Tour, I think?) but I don't think they do any more.
Nexy might have one as well. I'm not sure about that, but I know they have various hardwood models so worth checking out.

Also Xiom Omega Tour blade. One of the few blades which uses the ebony inside.

 

[trumpet_guy]

hipnotic is a very knowledgeable and accomplished blade maker, so while he may or may not be wrong, his opinion/insight is always worth considering.

 

[SDC]

Well, I can present my case:

• See how the color transition is clearly marked? That feels sketchy to me, it should fade from one color to another.
• That orange is very vivid, doesn't look natural.
• All the sample I've seen have a very straight grain, Andro must have a really outstanding QC
• I think it's not a coincidence that the other two blades in that line also use reconstituted wood
• Finally the weight. That is clearly a thick top layer, around 0.6mm, let's say it's 0.5mm to make it easier. Macassar Ebony weighs around 1120 Kg/m3, that's the same as having two limba layers for one Ebony layer. If I make an estimate of the weight of the blade, that is still about 78g for the blade alone (without handles). They state the average weight is 92g, which I find very intriguing. And while it's possible to have the handles weigh just 14g, they would have to be very hollowed, making the blade very head heavy.

I use reconstituted Ebony wood too, it's still heavy and hard, but not as much as real Ebony. Nothing wrong with it, just don't sell it as such.

 

[Manto76]

hipnotic is a very knowledgeable and accomplished blade maker, so while he may or may not be wrong, his opinion/insight is always worth considering.

Agree 100% That's why it would be good to have a reply from Andro. If I thought Hipnotic's opinion wasn't important then it could just be dismissed without consideration. My request for a reply indicates my respect for his expertise in these matters. Apologies that that wasn't clear from my original comment!

 

[Manto76]

I use reconstituted Ebony wood too ...

Ah! So you're suggesting it might be reconstituted Ebony, not that it might be another wood species altogether? I know Fineline is reconstituted wood, but I thought you were suggesting it might be some species other than Ebony.

If it is (Ebony) Fineline I do agree with you that they should say so.

 

[SDC]

Ah! So you're suggesting it might be reconstituted Ebony, not that it might be another wood species altogether? I know Fineline is reconstituted wood, but I thought you were suggesting it might be some species other than Ebony.

If it is (Ebony) Fineline I do agree with you that they should say so.

I doesn't make sense to make reconstituted wood out of exotic wood, that's exactly the thing they are trying to imitate at a cheaper price. Normally they use Ayous, poplar, maple, which are lighter woods, both in weight as well as in color, so they are easy to stain. I have several types of reconstituted wood, some are light, but the one that tries to mimic Ebony is the heaviest one, although not nearly as heavy as real Ebony.