Equipment advice for progressing junior

[manosb]

i recommend you donic bluefire as a rubber because it has good spin and control and i think you will like it

 

[tabletennis11.com]

Whatever you choose during the development phases it's important to focus more on the control factor. A good allround or off- wood would probably be well suited. Someone suggested the Stiga Allround Classic, not a bad place to start, you could also look at something like the Stiga Clipper or Donic Appelgren All.

In terms of rubber, better to focus on spin and control with a balance of speed. Rakza 7 is a good rubber for as it is good for producing spin and driving. You could try the soft variety on your backhand. It's doesn't have overwhelming pace compared to other rubbers.

 

[BeGo]

I agree with Next Level,

When he said Baracuda max, at least I can feel what he up to. [emoji1]

These names can be good alternatives in lower price,

Galaxy 896
Donic Testra AR
Galaxy J-1

In max,
Friendship/729 729-08
Friendship/729 729
XuShaoFa 999 LSZ




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[jord1484]

I've found what seems to be a very good value bat herehttps://bribartt.co.uk/product/joola-falcon-medium-fitted-with-joola-energy-xtra-tibhar-aurus-sound/ but im wondering whether it will be to fast for me

 

[NextLevel]

I've found what seems to be a very good value bat herehttps://bribartt.co.uk/product/joola-falcon-medium-fitted-with-joola-energy-xtra-tibhar-aurus-sound/ but im wondering whether it will be to fast for me

Definitely not too fast for you. Not sure about the falcon blade but the rubbers are good.

 

[Joshy]

As a blade you should try the butterfly primorac off-. It's very cheap ( 35€ I think) and it's a good offensive blade for beginnes but also players who have allready a higher level !
As rubbers you could try the xiom vega japan or the xiom vega europe. The europe is a bit more slowly and the japan is faster
I Hope I can help you;-)

 

[Der_Echte]

DerEchte,

How many adults got as good as you did during your time training in Korea? Just curious.

Hmmm. Not really a lot. Korean amateurs on average are like Americans. Many play for years and are around 1300 to 1500 range for the most part and a few more 1500 to 1700 level. That is Division 5 and low Div 4 for the first group and the upper end of Div 4 city for the second group.

Not so many people make it to div 2 or div 1 most of those players were in the sport 10 or 20 years.

You did see some rapidly improving young adults though. Among the O40 crowd like me just a few improved from Div 5 to Div 3 or higher within a few years.

Even in USA not many older adults like you improve like you did so props.




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[NextLevel]

Hmmm. Not really a lot. Korean amateurs on average are like Americans. Many play for years and are around 1300 to 1500 range for the most part and a few more 1500 to 1700 level. That is Division 5 and low Div 4 for the first group and the upper end of Div 4 city for the second group.

Not so many people make it to div 2 or div 1 most of those players were in the sport 10 or 20 years.

You did see some rapidly improving young adults though. Among the O40 crowd like me just a few improved from Div 5 to Div 3 or higher within a few years.

Even in USA not many older adults like you improve like you did so props.




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My point exactly, Der Echte. Props to you too. So the question here is how many of those guys played with fast setups?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

My point exactly, Der Echte. Props to you too. So the question here is how many of those guys played with fast setups?

It is a good point and I knew where you were going with this. But some of it also has to do with the level of the addiction and the fact that he was getting lots of coaching. Over there lessons were not so expensive and even though his pay was army pay the American dollar went a long way for coaching in Korea. And he wasn't just getting coaching. He really wanted to learn and get better and did everything he could to get that to happen. Once you are over 40 it is hard to get that good. You really have to want it.


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[NextLevel]

It is a good point and I knew where you were going with this. But some of it also has to do with the level of the addiction and the fact that he was getting lots of coaching. Over there lessons were not so expensive and even though his pay was army pay the American dollar went a long way for coaching in Korea. And he wasn't just getting coaching. He really wanted to learn and get better and did everything he could to get that to happen. Once you are over 40 it is hard to get that good. You really have to want it.


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I know. Would still be good to hear his perspective.

At any age, you have to want it. It's just much easier to want it or to self-select as a kid without much effort because a kid has fewer responsibilities.

 

[Der_Echte]

I had 100x more coaching from being on TT forums than I got from Korean coaches, but my coach there, and just about all of them use the same top secret coaching manual that has you wore the heck out after 12-13 minutes of the lesson.

Once you are able to loopdrive, they have you step in and flip 1000 balls, do a turbo Falkenberg that would make Falkenberg himself cringe just looking and they keep you on a basic level in practice stroke wise.

I never really had coaches fix my stroke there and when you see my game, it looks like I didn't learn all that much footwork and balance. I'm serious I say that I learned the great majority of my TT from Hodges Steps to Success: Table Tennis book and the TT forums.

My lessons were 2x a week for 20 minutes each, it was more like boot camp get wore out. I did however play a lot of club matches vs everyone and visited as many clubs as I could. Got to play vs every style imaginable. Played a LOT vs OX pips (Korean BH OX punchblockers) and some SP.

Koreans are super duper good at FH drive, they look like 2000+ at that shot after one month of lessons.

A LOT of coaches have the players get equipment appropriate for that style... OFF+ blades with control rubbers. Such a setup isn't too fast for a solid impact type of base stroke, it is pretty much optimal. With all teh "control" setups I used, I couldn't hit 100 FH drives in a row fast or slow to save my life, but a rookie dude does that regularly by the end of the second month. What I could do is FH topspin like crazy and the coaches never teach that until they are well along a bunch of other things. Some players never reach the stage of learning to loop vs underspin, because they don't make it past doing all those loopdrives on the move under heavy tired stress.

I arrived in Korea as a 1600 USATT rated recreational player with zero coaching. That is prolly 4-5 levels better than what most players start at (Under 1000 USATT level) I grew only 3 levels in 3-4 years. That is still pretty good progress, but the newbs who are average who start 1000 and reach 1500-1600 grow 4 levels plus in the same 3 years or less.

Paying for only basic membership in a Korean club runs $60-$80 a month. That gets you free play every day (Usually clubs open at lunch and close at 10 or 11 PM) and free use of robot. 2x 20 min lessons a week for a whole month including basic club membership costs $130-$150 USD for the whole month. NO ONE does a lesson for longer than 30 minutes. They got laws against coaches giving you heart attack.

I DID do a lot of tourneys and I did get around a lot, I think that helped a lot. I had a blast there for sure and many of you have been on the forums and seen enough of my stories and adventures there.

There was one guy who was nearly 50 when he started TT. He was prolly USATT 1200 level, he never took lessons, he simply played matches or blocked balls for other players. After 3 years or so, he developed a real good feel for impact. He used mainly a Jun Mizutani with Der_Echte Special rubbers (Aurus/XP2008) I would use those 2-3 months (300 hrs or so) and replace them new, then give old rubbers to this guy. He would hit another 6 months with these rubbers. He was prolly 1750-1800 by the time I left Korea.

 

[Der_Echte]

There was a young dude named Park who prolly started out 1200 USATT and by the time one year went by, he was my level (1750ish) and by 3 years same level (prolly 1900+) and by the end of 4 yrs he was easily O2000 level and I had losing record vs him, maybe 25% win percentage.

He used TBS with Tenergy.

There are some dudes who start young using such a setup and get good pretty quick, but they are the exception.

After a while, the older players play for fun, but a LOT of them take lessons. They want to get better to have better performance to have more fun and win more in the city tourney, but they play mostly for fun.

 

[Der_Echte]

You would think that at some point around USATT 1400-1500, coaches would teach a strong opening BH loop vs underspin. Wrong. That lesson must be buried DEEP in their top secret coaching manual, you don't see it in lessons until they get at LEAST Div 3 (1800-1950) or Div 2 (1900-2050) and even then they pretty much gotta learn it by themselves.

At 1600 USATT, my BH loop vs underspin was the best in my city out of 400 male payers (excluding ex pro coaches).

That pretty much says it all when it comes to their progression and priorities in coaching shakehand players.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

By the way, Der_Echte, if you did thousands of reps of flip training, there is very little that is as good for improving your footwork, your stroke and your handling of random placement all at the same time. No wonder you got so good. Working on that with a coach is great.


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[NextLevel]

By the way, Der_Echte, if you did thousands of reps of flip training, there is very little that is as good for improving your footwork, your stroke and your handling of random placement all at the same time. No wonder you got so good. Working on that with a coach is great.


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One week of short push training with the proper footwork led me to exactly the same conclusion.

 

[Der_Echte]

By the way, Der_Echte, if you did thousands of reps of flip training, there is very little that is as good for improving your footwork, your stroke and your handling of random placement all at the same time. No wonder you got so good. Working on that with a coach is great.


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Yeah, but you do this AFTER you are already wore out and this step in flip and step out is pretty demanding stuff as well.

You would have had a lot of long laughs if you saw what I looked like failing at that tired stage though.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I love getting that cooked.

 

[Giangt]

Has anyone from the goon squad recommend Peter Korbel?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The goon squad seems to have determined that this junior should use Pro and National equipment. And for a newer player who the goon squad would recommend a 5 ply all wood blade for learning and developing feeling, the goon squad has determined that Butterly 5 ply blades play like a piece of furniture. So, if you want a Petr Korbel or a Primorac Off- I have a blade to sell you that was made from the leg of a sturdy chair that plays just like my Korbel but with a bit more feeling.

For those of you who think I have lost my mind--well, the real issue is, I never had one to lose in the first place.

And if you don't get what I am saying, don't worry, it is an inside joke. Perhaps one or two people will know exactly what I just said. For the rest of you, the goon squad is still trying to figure out how to get out of the septic tank under the trap door at the secret hideout. Never fear. When they get out, they will be trying to get H3 National and Pro Tenergy for themselves and the goon squad will soon be after them too.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

BTW: if you missed it, right about now the TT companies are looking for new recruits for the goon squad because the old goon squad has been turned into raving equipment junkies who are all trying to get their hands on Ma Long's personal H3, his own personal W968 blade and Fan Zhendong's personal Pro Tenergy, which, rumor has it, is really a special Pro version of a Bluefire Turbo sponge with an H8 topsheet. And to top it off, they have actually forgotten the secret handshake and are trying to get their goods from on line sources like Ali Express.


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