Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

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It's really sad that there is no replacement for it. I just compared the Pk50 and LAC in terms of blocking and the Pk50 effortlessly tamed harder top spins well, while the LAC was infinitely harder to control on these situations. The opponent can simply play hard enough to engage the LAC sponge and then it goes flying. Even though the sponge is way softer on the Pk50 I never had the situation that the power of the incoming ball would activate the sponge to an amount that is not controllable anymore.
That could be said for a lot of rubbers comparisons...tons of variables so its anecdotical, of course for your personal comparison its usefull but what if i spin block and have better results taming balls with LAC? Or if my grip while blocking is looser? Blade ridgidity and top ply could affect the results, angles too...
 
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I like LAC in blocks much more than PK 50. And in the rest of the game as well. LAC is faster and harder, weakly reacts to incoming rotation, unlike PK50, which is very sensitive, in addition LAC has a short receive and a very powerful attack. Minus is the big weight - 54 grams in a cut form.
Addition.
Also, LAC has a much lower angle which I like better for forehand play. I could never get used to high angle of PK50.
 
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That could be said for a lot of rubbers comparisons...tons of variables so its anecdotical, of course for your personal comparison its usefull but what if i spin block and have better results taming balls with LAC? Or if my grip while blocking is looser? Blade ridgidity and top ply could affect the results, angles too...
it is totally clear that this is my subjective experience and to be honest i never had issues when warming up and blocking the opponents topspins when basically doing the match warm up. Today i had a few system drills and i asked my coach to include this match like scenario where i push a serve long to the backhand and then have to "do something" with the down the line backhand loop. Yes, i did try a few different techniques to handle this ball. Some worked better than others. i.e. basically countering the loop with the right angle worked quite well, just blocking with a "hard" hand was hard, with a soft hand it was better but still the right angle to not overshoot was hard to figure out. Twiddling with the blade and just trying it a few times with the pk50 sieger i could basically block with strong hand and actively, do a spinblock (basically a mini counterloop), could chop block by moving the racket to the right on impact and sending it with sidespin to the long forehand of the opponent. I know that the pk50 felt good for me when blocking but given that it has a softer sponge than the LAC i was really surprised how much speed was generated when i was blocking passively.

Let me reiterate, the blocking in drill scenarios or warm up is fine with LAC, just the type of loop i encountered in the drill with the coach was quite hard to handle with it for me.

In the end the technique that works best with my forehand rubber will determine the stroke repertoire that i can use in these situations in a match. No wonder i sometimes even twist my wrist to black backhand block on the forehand because it is so damn easy to tame strong shots with the pk50.
 
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it is totally clear that this is my subjective experience and to be honest i never had issues when warming up and blocking the opponents topspins when basically doing the match warm up. Today i had a few system drills and i asked my coach to include this match like scenario where i push a serve long to the backhand and then have to "do something" with the down the line backhand loop. Yes, i did try a few different techniques to handle this ball. Some worked better than others. i.e. basically countering the loop with the right angle worked quite well, just blocking with a "hard" hand was hard, with a soft hand it was better but still the right angle to not overshoot was hard to figure out. Twiddling with the blade and just trying it a few times with the pk50 sieger i could basically block with strong hand and actively, do a spinblock (basically a mini counterloop), could chop block by moving the racket to the right on impact and sending it with sidespin to the long forehand of the opponent. I know that the pk50 felt good for me when blocking but given that it has a softer sponge than the LAC i was really surprised how much speed was generated when i was blocking passively.

Let me reiterate, the blocking in drill scenarios or warm up is fine with LAC, just the type of loop i encountered in the drill with the coach was quite hard to handle with it for me.

In the end the technique that works best with my forehand rubber will determine the stroke repertoire that i can use in these situations in a match. No wonder i sometimes even twist my wrist to black backhand block on the forehand because it is so damn easy to tame strong shots with the pk50.
For sure i found that techniques applied to match scenarios can differ a lot from static or controlled drills. Its clear that equipment its a really personal thing. Thats why i stated that some comparisons are too general or with too many variables.
 
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For sure i found that techniques applied to match scenarios can differ a lot from static or controlled drills. Its clear that equipment its a really personal thing. Thats why i stated that some comparisons are too general or with too many variables.
you also have to take into account the vast difference in playing level of the people comparing. While you might voice an opinion that might be most valuable to better players, i am talking out of the perspective of a beginner really, so my experience might be closer to what another "newbie" would think or feel. Even though the the LAC is pretty hyped up in this thread it is not an easy to play rubber like an Tibhar Aurus or a Andro Hexer Duro and begginers often searching for the next best thing might be tempted to get such an rubber because it is so well spoken about in here and hinder their progress.

So let nobody be fooled by my opinion, i am still a beginner (compared to basically anybody else in here). At the end of my 2h training session (you can see that i am out of stamina already by how upright i stand) i just wanted to simulate the worst case scenario for some of my game strategies which is if somebody would be good looping down the line to my forehand (either on my serve or when i push long). I tried different things and basically countering (not counter spinning) seemed to be the most successful strategie for me here. red rubber is LAC, black is PK50 and you can see in the two examples where i simply hold the paddle into the ball and the PK50 takes out the danger out of the ball and returns it relatively short.

 
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you also have to take into account the vast difference in playing level of the people comparing. While you might voice an opinion that might be most valuable to better players, i am talking out of the perspective of a beginner really, so my experience might be closer to what another "newbie" would think or feel. Even though the the LAC is pretty hyped up in this thread it is not an easy to play rubber like an Tibhar Aurus or a Andro Hexer Duro and begginers often searching for the next best thing might be tempted to get such an rubber because it is so well spoken about in here and hinder their progress.

So let nobody be fooled by my opinion, i am still a beginner (compared to basically anybody else in here). At the end of my 2h training session (you can see that i am out of stamina already by how upright i stand) i just wanted to simulate the worst case scenario for some of my game strategies which is if somebody would be good looping down the line to my forehand (either on my serve or when i push long). I tried different things and basically countering (not counter spinning) seemed to be the most successful strategie for me here. red rubber is LAC, black is PK50 and you can see in the two examples where i simply hold the paddle into the ball and the PK50 takes out the danger out of the ball and returns it relatively short.

Great point for sure! Its all really personal at the end of the day.
I watched your video, You seem to have a decent foundation. I cant guess your match level since those were controlled balls, but you consider yourself a newbie..

i would like to hear your feelings about the typical ball PK50 gives you. I get you feel secure since it lands on the table with low effort? So it limits angle and timing errors?
But what about the follow up? In your video the 2 passive blocks with PK50 landed on the table but timing, spin, height and length seemed really easy for an oponent to attack. If you are playing a match around your current level, is that a ball that gives you some advantage? What ball qualities are you valuing more? This is an interesting topic when comparing rubbers i think. Individual Feeling its a key factor
 
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To not go entirely offtopic, let's put my opinion about the main difference between PK50 and LAC first.
PK50 is significantly more sticky (not only out of the box but also after several month).
The speed i would generate with LAC is higher (which one could attribute to the harder sponge of the LAC).
In terms of spin it is hard to judge, because all shots with the PK50 would have lower speed and a "better spin to speed ratio" on average, compared to the LAC. The PK50 would be much more demanding to play (on the forehand) though.
It is easier for me to generate speed with the LAC (which you would not expect, since the PK50's softer sponge).

i would like to hear your feelings about the typical ball PK50 gives you. I get you feel secure since it lands on the table with low effort? So it limits angle and timing errors?
i would say that it is mainly the angle that i need to care less about since regardless of the angle the ball jumps out of my bat, the power or speed that the ball will have will not make it go long without me actively giving power into the block. Even holding it with a rigid wrist is enough to dampen the power.


But what about the follow up? In your video the 2 passive blocks with PK50 landed on the table but timing, spin, height and length seemed really easy for an oponent to attack.
If the opponent knows how the ball will return blocked, it might not be an advantage for me, but intuition tells most players to step back after looping, because they expect the ball to get returned longer, which does not happen with the PK50 and hence the opponent rather stands too far out to hit the returned ball on its highest point, hence failing to be able to put more power into it.


I see people blocking with a similar bat angle to mine using faster tensors and the ball goes flying out.

fyi: most of these clips were from my very first competitive match day and i feel like this "odd" sidespin introduction gave me a little more chance than i should have had. There were two guys i had to play against were having basically 100 and 150 points more than the average of the league i guess. I totally expected to lose to both, but i one one game 3-0 and lost the other closely 2-3. For not having any tactic or strategy i was satisfied.


i am pretty sure these balls would at least land on the table with the pk50. Of course one could always argue that one would simply need to adjust the racket angle with a different rubber, but for me personally i think "dont fix whats not broken". i have enough things to work on and anything "kind of working" right now will be taken as granted and something i can improve on if many other things are fixed.

If you are playing a match around your current level, is that a ball that gives you some advantage? What ball qualities are you valuing more? This is an interesting topic when comparing rubbers i think. Individual Feeling its a key factor

Another thing that for me only works with the PK50 is a block/punch like shot that introduces sidespin into a rally.
I usually do this if i am in a rally and already looped with the opponent easily blocking it back or me being out of position and the ball coming straight at me (my center not ideal for my forehand and not ideal for my backhand because it would be too high). The opponent is often surprised by the sidespin and expects a certain amount of topspin to be in the ball which is not, hence the ball dropping to the net or if the go for a more active ball it often enough lands next to the table.


I am sure better players with a good touch will be able to do this with other rubbers as well, but i surely don't.
Since it does work often enough, i dont see myself changing this part of my game for basically zero benefit.
 
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To not go entirely offtopic, let's put my opinion about the main difference between PK50 and LAC first.
PK50 is significantly more sticky (not only out of the box but also after several month).
The speed i would generate with LAC is higher (which one could attribute to the harder sponge of the LAC)
I really liked your response, Even more, you provided context with videos. I think explaining your personal logic and feelings gives better information for the averge player.
i would say that it is mainly the angle that i need to care less about since regardless of the angle the ball jumps out of my bat, the power or speed that the ball will have will not make it go long without me actively giving power into the block. Even holding it with a rigid wrist is enough to dampen the power.
its a valid point, i think its really relevant for most club level players. I guess when someone generally recommends softer rubbers that arent spin sensitive they look for the players to develop around this feeling of safety and confidence when ball lands. I got this feeling with Boosted Rxton pink and reactor tornado v5 on backhand.

If the opponent knows how the ball will return blocked, it might not be an advantage for me, but intuition tells most players to step back after looping, because they expect the ball to get returned longer, which does not happen with the PK50 and hence the opponent rather stands too far out to hit the returned ball on its highest point, hence failing to be able to put more power into it.

I see people blocking with a similar bat angle to mine using faster tensors and the ball goes flying out.
I have similar a experience, i won quite a bit of points because of that, players expecting longer predictable bounce from a block and taking a too big step back. Higher level players adapt to these balls so i need to mix timings with angles and active strokes.
Again happend more often on BH Whit boosted: Rxton 3 pink, reactor tornado v5, skyline 3, H3 37. With grippy tensors not that much.
I achived similar results with Tenergy 64, and i do it with Telson 100 by softening my grip and playing with Angles or taking energy to the sides. So its something that can be done consiusly with practice.


Another thing that for me only works with the PK50 is a block/punch like shot that introduces sidespin into a rally.
I usually do this if i am in a rally and already looped with the opponent easily blocking it back or me being out of position and the ball coming straight at me (my center not ideal for my forehand and not ideal for my backhand because it would be too high). The opponent is often surprised by the sidespin and expects a certain amount of topspin to be in the ball which is not, hence the ball dropping to the net or if the go for a more active ball it often enough lands next to the table.

I am sure better players with a good touch will be able to do this with other rubbers as well, but i surely don't.
Since it does work often enough, i dont see myself changing this part of my game for basically zero benefit
I like those shots too, i had success with a sidespin backhand block when balls went to my elbow, again it was easy with Rxton 3 and similar. Now its harder with Telson but it was harder against higher level players anyway. Now im trying to avoid doing that withou thinking and playing Forehand if its better position. Now and then i just do it instinctively with mixed results, against some players it works so its tempting but i think that hinders my game in the long run so im trying to play more balanced shots for now.
 
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Fresh from training I got confirming remarks after we warmed up. Me blocking with the Pk50 and him being a leftie forehand looping. He basically said "it's like playing against somebody with pips or anti. Usually I can increase the speed of my loops l, but your block always slows the ball down"
 
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Fresh from training I got confirming remarks after we warmed up. Me blocking with the Pk50 and him being a leftie forehand looping. He basically said "it's like playing against somebody with pips or anti. Usually I can increase the speed of my loops l, but your block always slows the ball down"
I got similar responses (no anti or pips but the slow down) using rxton 3, skyline and tornado v5 on BH. I guess a bit of tackiness and softer sponges do that. Sometimes while teaching i use my students bats and i need to adjust my blocks to let them hit confortably (i block A LOT and different qualities balls since i started teaching) most bats have some kind of 5 ply with Rxton 1 or 3, reactor tornado or used h3 commmercial. More advanced players have that problem with blocks slowing down the ball if i use those bats instead of my personal one, they need to adjust or i just play a bit more active block or firmer grip.🙌🏻🏓
 
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I'd use or try rxton 3 as a Pk50 alternative, but the lack of tackiness turns me off.
I dont think they play on the same category. I used boosted Rxton 3 pink and it worked fine. RXTON 3 PRO should share some similarities but probably not tacky enough for you either. Main advantage of those are price/performance
 
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i am pretty sure these balls would at least land on the table with the pk50. Of course one could always argue that one would simply need to adjust the racket angle with a different rubber, but for me personally i think "dont fix whats not broken". i have enough things to work on and anything "kind of working" right now will be taken as granted and something i can improve on if many other things are fixed.
lol, your opponent here does not even close its bat. That's a very very poor block and you can't say "Hey, look at his perfect block that still goes out".
 
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i did not rewatch the video, but did not state that he does block perfectly, because then it would not go out. It's more that whatever he is used to as angle to block intuitively did not work this time, but if laughing at less experienced players makes you feel better, then by me guest if you need that.

That opponent has finished the season with 33 wins and 3 losses. you could of course argue that nobody does topspin in that low league and that is the only reason he won so much without being able to block, right.
 
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