Feedback on my League games

[dingyibvs]

Hello guys. The 2nd half of the Season has started. Also changed to fresh D09c 2,1mm (same as before) sheets.
I honestly don´t remember when I had this problem but I seem to struggle a lot when I start topspinning during warmup.
I filmed myself. This is from Monday. One LongPips player and the other plays a lot of chops and heavy first topspin. Also good flips on very short balls.
Tell me the truth would you keep this current setup or put something slow? I want to keep the same spin but give up some speed because I get better using my body into the shots. You will see that my rallies are over very fast after just one topspin. Just feels like whenever I start playing I need like 20-30min to feel comfortable to loop with my forehand. Thats why I started getting doubtful about my equipment again. Also do you guys see any improvement from last time? Feel free to tell me your honest opinion

vs Long Pips
vs inverted Player

Looking good man, your technique is getting better! As you get better, you're starting to notice some issues with the D09c. The thing is, you're much better now at exploding at the point of contact. You're now activating the D09c's spring sponge properly. The issue when paired with your blade is that it tends to activate before your blade does, as the HL5 requires a lot of force to activate, so control becomes difficult as the behavior can be a bit erratic. You're still not doing a full swing, and that's probably because it gets very hard to control when you do that. This is why people almost always pair H3s with the HL5.

As for your BH, I think there's still some low hanging fruit. Your motion at least in game play is too wrist based. That usually indicates poor timing as you hit the ball too far in front of your body. Let the ball come to you a bit more, and start your swing by leading with the elbow (and thus keeping your biceps contracted until you're ready to explode through the ball).

 

[Zezima]

Looking good man, your technique is getting better! As you get better, you're starting to notice some issues with the D09c. The thing is, you're much better now at exploding at the point of contact. You're now activating the D09c's spring sponge properly. The issue when paired with your blade is that it tends to activate before your blade does, as the HL5 requires a lot of force to activate, so control becomes difficult as the behavior can be a bit erratic. You're still not doing a full swing, and that's probably because it gets very hard to control when you do that. This is why people almost always pair H3s with the HL5.

As for your BH, I think there's still some low hanging fruit. Your motion at least in game play is too wrist based. That usually indicates poor timing as you hit the ball too far in front of your body. Let the ball come to you a bit more, and start your swing by leading with the elbow (and thus keeping your biceps contracted until you're ready to explode through the ball).

Interesting because in training I heard my trainingspartner saying that when looping with the FH I do the length just right and that it's not too long.

Yeah my BH in game is not that good right now but if I compare it to the earlier games I posted here I use it way more with less unforced errors.

I do feel like I could attack way more balls and I am too selective with my balls?
Probably also standing too far to the balls.

If you have some timestamps for me to look at would be very helpful

 

[Zezima]

i only watched the second game (against the inverted player) and i would not have thought that i would say this after watching it, but at least in terms of your forehand i do not think that the dignics 09c leads to you missing too many loops.
The loop opportunities that you took were with a high success chance and mostly placed well enough that the speed that you generated lead to good direct points. I can not remember one instance where the huge amount of spin on the loop forced your opponent to block over though. To me the "unique" selling point of the dignics 09c is not what you use to score the points, but you did score them with more powerfull loop drives nonetheless. One might argue, that you could have scored them the same with an MX-D or any other high performance fast rubber. Dignics 09c does have good speed and spin even with short movements, if you have the right acceleration and you did well most of the time.

Playing exactly this match with the shot selection you took, i dont believe another slower rubber would have made you perform better, because if the well placed shots would be slower (due to a slower rubber) the opponent would have probably had more chance to reach the balls.

If you spend enough time with a setup it will also program your mind about what ball is loopable and which is not and that is the only thing where i could see that a different rubber could change your game to loop more long balls (especially the long pushes and serves), so you would not be "so picky" about which ball to loop. This could of course lead to less loops leading to a direct point and you simply looping more.

I think if somebody would not have known your setup, nobody would have said that your rubber is way too fast for you, since you had these power loops that your opponent did not return.

Well done.

I actually played Mx-D before I switched to this blade. I think I had liked it more than Mx-P back then.

You made a good point. That's also what I realised against the pips player. I was winning every point almost straight.

 

[Zezima]

As conclusio. Should I not switch to a slower rubber on my FH, So I can use my arm and body rotation even more into the shots without being scared to overshoot?
I tried my little brothers setup. He has a slower blade (Petr Korbel (Made in Japan)) and dignics 80 on the FH. And I could generate the same speed on my loops. What I want to say is that I feel confident in moving to a slower setup without being afraid that I will lose speed. Only thing I don´t want to lose is the spin. Because right now I make many points even if they try to block it goes out. I don´t like long long rallys anyway because once I go full out my recovery is pretty bad. My current playstyle is pick the right ball and attack that ball and hope to end the rally instantly. Otherwise I tend to fish the next ball back.

 

[jk1980]

In most cases a all wood blade will generate more spin than an inner ALC one. Since you are already playing an iconic and more expensive blade, you might want to try the Nittaku Acoustic, which is very spinny and still provides good power.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the throw angle will change, when moving to an all wood blade, do you will need to adjust and close the racket even more. Paired with the dignics 09c that might be too much for you and feel unnatural

 

[Zezima]

In most cases a all wood blade will generate more spin than an inner ALC one. Since you are already playing an iconic and more expensive blade, you might want to try the Nittaku Acoustic, which is very spinny and still provides good power.

One thing to keep in mind though is that the throw angle will change, when moving to an all wood blade, do you will need to adjust and close the racket even more. Paired with the dignics 09c that might be too much for you and feel unnatural

I dont feel the need to change my blade yet.

My current setup is very nice on slower long balls. But very spin sensitive and has too much speed that's why I thought about giving Rakza Z a shot. But I would give up a lot on spin right?
The balls I fear the most are long side(under/top)spin
Once I get a normal ball during the rally I go for it.
My plan currently is just return the serve securely and then wait till the sidespin neutralises and then loop it(usually straight winner)
I like blocking with this setup too, as you might have seen against the inverted player. He called me "lucky" a few times.
Pushing is also good I just do mistakes if I want to push short.
So overall I want to overcome the incoming spin by overriding my own spin but in a way that the ball doesn't fly out and feels uncontrolled (mainly on serve receive)

 

[NextLevel]

As conclusio. Should I not switch to a slower rubber on my FH, So I can use my arm and body rotation even more into the shots without being scared to overshoot?
I tried my little brothers setup. He has a slower blade (Petr Korbel (Made in Japan)) and dignics 80 on the FH. And I could generate the same speed on my loops. What I want to say is that I feel confident in moving to a slower setup without being afraid that I will lose speed. Only thing I don´t want to lose is the spin. Because right now I make many points even if they try to block it goes out. I don´t like long long rallys anyway because once I go full out my recovery is pretty bad. My current playstyle is pick the right ball and attack that ball and hope to end the rally instantly. Otherwise I tend to fish the next ball back.

This play style is not going to get you to a good level. You need a style that is ready to rally even if the goal is to win early in the point. Your current style is fine.

 

[NextLevel]

Hello guys. The 2nd half of the Season has started. Also changed to fresh D09c 2,1mm (same as before) sheets.
I honestly don´t remember when I had this problem but I seem to struggle a lot when I start topspinning during warmup.
I filmed myself. This is from Monday. One LongPips player and the other plays a lot of chops and heavy first topspin. Also good flips on very short balls.
Tell me the truth would you keep this current setup or put something slow? I want to keep the same spin but give up some speed because I get better using my body into the shots. You will see that my rallies are over very fast after just one topspin. Just feels like whenever I start playing I need like 20-30min to feel comfortable to loop with my forehand. Thats why I started getting doubtful about my equipment again. Also do you guys see any improvement from last time? Feel free to tell me your honest opinion

vs Long Pips
vs inverted Player

Please stop it already - just train adding more arc on your forehand when you need it by selecting a different swing trajectory/contact point and continue to use what you are currently using. You look like a serious player now and taking this back to equipment is a step backwards IMHO. And Rakza Z makes the ball slow slow you will fall asleep while playing with it. Don't waste your time there.

 

[Dr Evil]

Hello guys. The 2nd half of the Season has started. Also changed to fresh D09c 2,1mm (same as before) sheets.
I honestly don´t remember when I had this problem but I seem to struggle a lot when I start topspinning during warmup.
I filmed myself. This is from Monday. One LongPips player and the other plays a lot of chops and heavy first topspin. Also good flips on very short balls.
Tell me the truth would you keep this current setup or put something slow? I want to keep the same spin but give up some speed because I get better using my body into the shots. You will see that my rallies are over very fast after just one topspin. Just feels like whenever I start playing I need like 20-30min to feel comfortable to loop with my forehand. Thats why I started getting doubtful about my equipment again. Also do you guys see any improvement from last time? Feel free to tell me your honest opinion

vs Long Pips
vs inverted Player

Looks good, stay with your current setup. You tend to play flat footed. Try to keep your weight a little more forward towards your toes which will help with faster recovery and transitions.

 

[Lula]

Backhand: i think you should try to stay lower with the stance, much more natural to play forward, since it is very difficut to hit forward when the ball is under you and you need to drop the arm to get it. Or/and try close the angle, then you also need to go forward. Every time the ball goes out, you have hit to much up and down, and maybe to little spin so the ball will not arc down but probably the first. Would be great to multiball or exercise when you are looping and get the block, then try to have racket high and go forward. Can also try to get low and go foward on the backspin as long as you brush well.

Counterloop: that feels like gamble. I think it is much better to go from the block, so let the ball close and just make a little more, at least if you take it earlier instead of let it go up. If you let it go up, you need to hit hard. Much more control if you can use more body and less arm.

Number three is also a gamble, i think you move well the first balls but the last one you are not in position and you still try to hit it hard. Need to move and stand correct. If you get good spin buy snapping the forearm and closing the angle you are allowed to move less since the spin will make the ball go down.

Good luck

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

maybe D09c 1.9mm instead of 2.1mm if you have to try something - or dont change - i also do not recommend playing Rakza Z, just do better with D09c if u like it overall

 

[Zezima]

Backhand: i think you should try to stay lower with the stance, much more natural to play forward, since it is very difficut to hit forward when the ball is under you and you need to drop the arm to get it. Or/and try close the angle, then you also need to go forward. Every time the ball goes out, you have hit to much up and down, and maybe to little spin so the ball will not arc down but probably the first. Would be great to multiball or exercise when you are looping and get the block, then try to have racket high and go forward. Can also try to get low and go foward on the backspin as long as you brush well.

Counterloop: that feels like gamble. I think it is much better to go from the block, so let the ball close and just make a little more, at least if you take it earlier instead of let it go up. If you let it go up, you need to hit hard. Much more control if you can use more body and less arm.

Number three is also a gamble, i think you move well the first balls but the last one you are not in position and you still try to hit it hard. Need to move and stand correct. If you get good spin buy snapping the forearm and closing the angle you are allowed to move less since the spin will make the ball go down.

Good luck

I have no problem when doing multiballs. And in games I try to listen to my subconsious and dont think consiously.
Should I start working on topspinning with lower tempo? Right now I have the feeling that if I topspin slow that I will miss it.

 

[Zezima]

I just look at how some Pro players loop and if I would do the same movement my Balls would fly out I think. Like I saw someone where his loop trajectory was up and forwards against a topspin ball and it would arc high and go back on to the opposite table. Mine would def go to mars with that hit trajectory.

 

[doppelmoral]

I agree with @NextLevel. I see solid improvement and decent table tennis.
But also, there is a lack of footwork, not sufficient involvement of legs, and alot of reaching for the ball.

I would work on recovery after every shot and staying mobile and bouncy to get into better positions to play the next ball.

Thinking about equipment while having one of the best blades+rubber on the market already is a waste of time at this point.

 

[NextLevel]

I just look at how some Pro players loop and if I would do the same movement my Balls would fly out I think. Like I saw someone where his loop trajectory was up and forwards against a topspin ball and it would arc high and go back on to the opposite table. Mine would def go to mars with that hit trajectory.

Everyone loops differently. You don't know exactly what the mental contact point of the attacker, the swing speed going forward at contact or the weight of the incoming ball which was attacked were. Just play your game. If you want to achieve something, test it in practice through experimenting.

What sometimes happens is that the person mistimed the incoming ball and got lucky. Or the grip on his rubber saved him. Sometimes, the stroke is more forward than it appears to be if you look at the actual contact. It is hard to know. And whether such shots are the player's standard shots is another story. I used to imagine a lot of things before I started playing those shots myself. Then I realized I completely misunderstood the weight transfer behind what I was seeing. Sometimes there is both an upward and downward component (the player might be pressing down on his non-racket foot or pushing downwards on the ball while swinging forwards and upwards) but all you see is the upward component.

 

[h3llary]

Hi @Zezima your angle mostly seems fine, which could be closer in forehand maybe.
But I've realised all the missed shots are hit by lower end of racket, while successful ones are mostly on top or middle. I don’t believe fully that but coaches generally say spin with top, push with bottom of paddle for more area to brush ball.

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even if you "brush" the ball, the ball doesn't slide on the surface of the rubber, it gets stuck on the contact point and then shoots out. Another important thing though is the "sweet spot" of the blade. If you didn't hit the sweet spot then the ball may be of low quality or even fly away in different direction

 

[Zezima]

I can add more arc on my forehand but then the stroke becomes slow. I risk a bit more here and try to adjust the angle and just snap it.

Maybe there are cases where I don´t use my hips but here I can clearly see that I do use it.
Here in the lastpoint aswell.

But if I go for it. It´s always this speed of body rotation and arm snapping not less and not more.

As for my backhand. I know which Balls I don´t attack currently. short - half long into my backhand. Depending on the score and confidence level I either push or flick. But in this game it wasn´t that high so I pushed more.
Very long Balls almost to the white line.
Fast pushes.
If I stay too high for the low ball and too low for the high ball - Basically my Stance has to match the Balls height and it needs to be a slower ball (not too slow - I like working with enemy tempo)
With my Forehand I am not that picky. I just realized in the game because I stay not too close to the table that I miss the opportunity to loop half long slow balls. But if my opponent figures that out I adapt and get closer to the table on serve receive (which I did in my last league game that I haven´t uploaded yet). Otherwise I would have lost because I was pushing half long balls back to them and they would start looping all the time. I just feel more comfortable going slowly back and then loop from middistance instead of flicking and then having to attack the incoming long ball (I know it´s a weakness).
Basically sometimes I could start looping a half long ball but I don´t because I know I won´t be able to end the point straight away so I wait for a longer weaker push that I can end the rally with. I think this last sentence sums my game up pretty good.

I said Rakza Z for the FH because some people recommended me 4 Months ago or so, because they said D09c is too fast for me or something. I thought back then I was a bit stubborn. I am also 2nd Place in the rankings: Not to brag but I sometimes do wish that I could also go for a slower loop and attack on Receive more. If the half long balls are not long enough for me to loop my return is just terrible. My over the table balls are not good I think. But will try to practise it more.

 

[Der_Echte]

Zezima,

You might be over thinking equipment a little.

Look at what should be your priority for what is needed to execute the shots you do the most and are more important... look for equipment that makes it easy to do those. This can be a very large number of possible equipment. Getting stuff that is reasonably close to center of mass for this is fine... and there can be hundreds of possible equipment suitable and appropriate for you.

You think of NOW and also what is easy to develop with.

I did such an evaluation and discovered a wood blade with only OK base speed, but great feel and easy to generate spin rubbers (med hard FH soft BH) was my middle spot and it guided me to the setup in my sig.

I valued ease in creating spin, reasonable base and top speed, and high landing percentage given my technique.

You might have similar needs, or different ones. You and those around you can figure it out.

Don't worry about a PERFECT setup, it doesn't exist... after you make the trade-offs you are OK with, there are many appropriate ones.

I get by fine with a 25 Euro blade (after discount) and 25 euro rubbers that have been around a long time, but are easy to most any shot with (Aurus)... but that is me and my process.

Your process can be similar with your own determined and evaluated criteria of what is important to you... which is your personal choice and vision.

Having appropriate equipment that is not absolute perfect is perfectly OK to go along with sound technique, tactics, and mental performance. Know when how to adjust, how to move in time to position and make leverage, see the ball, decide quickly, be brave... such things count a lot as much or more than absolute equipment.

 

[jk1980]

I said Rakza Z for the FH because some people recommended me 4 Months ago or so, because they said D09c is too fast for me or something. I thought back then I was a bit stubborn. I am also 2nd Place in the rankings: Not to brag but I sometimes do wish that I could also go for a slower loop and attack on Receive more. If the half long balls are not long enough for me to loop my return is just terrible. My over the table balls are not good I think. But will try to practise it more.

I think you did adapt to the dignics 09c as well as you could. You worked your way into having a "comfortable" way to use the rubber to hit powerful loops/drives and that does work for you. As you do notice yourself there are some aspects that will be harder with the 09c compared to other rubbers. It is always a trade off obviously. A setupthat would allow you to slow and spinny loop might make it harder to hit those straightout winners. In your current league your current best weapon is good enough.
Are you planing on playing one league higher coming season ? Then this weapon might not suffice anymore and it will be even harder experiencing the lack of options available to you when you play against better players.

Would you like to test new material in a league where everybody is better than you ? I think you probably dont want to do that, because no material will be able to magically beat better players, when you just switched the setup.

i think testing setups and equipment is best done in comfortable leagues where you know you can test a lot and still be successful. That is at least my reasoning. It should not matter if i lose 4 points per match because i try to banana flick certain more difficult serves. Many things are only possible to be done in a match if you are confident enough. No point in playing an opponent that outplays you easily with a new setup, because you wont be able to even test it well enough by playing your strong strokes.

One good thing is that you managed to find a way to cope with the relatively hard dignics 09c and have enough power to loop with it. This widens the options of rubbers you could play with. The way you loop with the dignics 09c would probably bottom out the Rakza Z (regular), but on the other hand you could easily get away with just snapping the lower arm and wrist to loop with the Rakza Z which would allow to loop short and spinny (even over the table).

In the end all the "test new equipment" is pointless until you decide if you want to play in a higher league next season or not.
If you dont play in a higher league next season, then you could easily postpone that whole "search for the even more holy grail" to the break inbetween seasons.
If you will likely play in a higher league next season, then i think your current league is more appropriate to test in, since you are doing just fine and will have an easier adaption to anything new.

Changing the rubber is one thing but changing the blade can also impact the ability to play certain strokes. I do believe with my prior w968 setup i would not have been able to play these short (wide out) serves that i do now with the Nittaku Acoustic.

Of course there are players that will also be able to do it with a w968, but for me the all wood of the Acoustic made it quite easier and made me feel the ball better so that my automatic adjustments worked better.

In the end you will need a second blade as testing bed anyways. I dont think that it is wise to change things on your main blade, because comparing to prior memory of the old setup rarely works out well. Especially if you do not have the experience of playing years with the old setup.

Anyways, good luck

 

[Zezima]

I think you did adapt to the dignics 09c as well as you could. You worked your way into having a "comfortable" way to use the rubber to hit powerful loops/drives and that does work for you. As you do notice yourself there are some aspects that will be harder with the 09c compared to other rubbers. It is always a trade off obviously. A setupthat would allow you to slow and spinny loop might make it harder to hit those straightout winners. In your current league your current best weapon is good enough.
Are you planing on playing one league higher coming season ? Then this weapon might not suffice anymore and it will be even harder experiencing the lack of options available to you when you play against better players.

Would you like to test new material in a league where everybody is better than you ? I think you probably dont want to do that, because no material will be able to magically beat better players, when you just switched the setup.

i think testing setups and equipment is best done in comfortable leagues where you know you can test a lot and still be successful. That is at least my reasoning. It should not matter if i lose 4 points per match because i try to banana flick certain more difficult serves. Many things are only possible to be done in a match if you are confident enough. No point in playing an opponent that outplays you easily with a new setup, because you wont be able to even test it well enough by playing your strong strokes.

One good thing is that you managed to find a way to cope with the relatively hard dignics 09c and have enough power to loop with it. This widens the options of rubbers you could play with. The way you loop with the dignics 09c would probably bottom out the Rakza Z (regular), but on the other hand you could easily get away with just snapping the lower arm and wrist to loop with the Rakza Z which would allow to loop short and spinny (even over the table).

In the end all the "test new equipment" is pointless until you decide if you want to play in a higher league next season or not.
If you dont play in a higher league next season, then you could easily postpone that whole "search for the even more holy grail" to the break inbetween seasons.
If you will likely play in a higher league next season, then i think your current league is more appropriate to test in, since you are doing just fine and will have an easier adaption to anything new.

Changing the rubber is one thing but changing the blade can also impact the ability to play certain strokes. I do believe with my prior w968 setup i would not have been able to play these short (wide out) serves that i do now with the Nittaku Acoustic.

Of course there are players that will also be able to do it with a w968, but for me the all wood of the Acoustic made it quite easier and made me feel the ball better so that my automatic adjustments worked better.

In the end you will need a second blade as testing bed anyways. I dont think that it is wise to change things on your main blade, because comparing to prior memory of the old setup rarely works out well. Especially if you do not have the experience of playing years with the old setup.

Anyways, good luck

Yeah thats a good point. I will be looking for an opportunity to play in a higher league but I am not sure if its worth changing clubs. Players from other clubs that are at that high level are a bit strange. And I will be under lots of pressure again... I like my current teammates. Only downside I wont be playing in a higher league with them because they are not good enough. Currently 6th in the Standings out of 10 teams even though I am 2nd place. So I would guess that I will be playing in this League again in the upcoming season (90%).

Alright I will forget about Rakza Z. This Friday I tried a setup I got gifted by a teammate. Harimoto super ZLC with D80 both sides. TBH I could play it as well as with my own blade. Or atleast very close to. But then again I was playing with players way below my playlevel.
Last season when I played in the highest League (with G1 and Rakza 7) I did a lot of unforced errors. Basically got beaten by consistency by the oldies. I mean I also get under pressure hard and force a lot of topspins.

Which aspect other than the obvious footwork should I be focusing on to reach the "next" level. Variation of topspin strokes (slow fast etc) or strokes over the table or receive (flicks and loops)?