"Feel of ball", affected by thickness of plies/quality management or am Im Crazy?

[SilentRain]

"Feel of ball", affected by thickness of plies/quality management or am Im Crazy?

Hi guys! When I was researching for a new blade I tested out My TB ALC with my friends Viscaria and notice something interesting.

Both my friend and I use the exact same rubber at same thickness and boosting qualities. Only difference is the blade.

Although mine was faster,spinnier and more powerful, His Viscaria felt softer and had a nicer "wood" feel. Mine was numb, dead and boring but functional and did what its suppose to do.

This lead me to think that the thickness of the plies could drastically affect "feel". Or It could be poor quality management and I had a bad batch.

The latter being unlikely as both blades are made by Butterfly and the compositions of the blade identical.

TB ALC: Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-Alc-Koto
Viscaria:Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-Alc-Koto

So the only logical conclusion that i can think of for this difference in feel is the thickness of the plies, maybe the ALC or Wood Plies are different from each other even though they are of the same material. Or I could just be crazy and all this is nonsense, I hope not as it took me 1.5 years to properly feel the TB ALC but could feel the Viscaria instantly. The opposite is true for my friend who could feel his Viscaria but not my TB ALC.

Anyone with any logical explainations?

 

[TTFrenzy]

Hi guys! When I was researching for a new blade I tested out My TB ALC with my friends Viscaria and notice something interesting.

Both my friend and I use the exact same rubber at same thickness and boosting qualities. Only difference is the blade.

Although mine was faster,spinnier and more powerful, His Viscaria felt softer and had a nicer "wood" feel. Mine was numb, dead and boring but functional and did what its suppose to do.

This lead me to think that the thickness of the plies could drastically affect "feel". Or It could be poor quality management and I had a bad batch.

The latter being unlikely as both blades are made by Butterfly and the compositions of the blade identical.

TB ALC: Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-Alc-Koto
Viscaria:Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-Alc-Koto

So the only logical conclusion that i can think of for this difference in feel is the thickness of the plies, maybe the ALC or Wood Plies are different from each other even though they are of the same material. Or I could just be crazy and all this is nonsense, I hope not as it took me 1.5 years to properly feel the TB ALC but could feel the Viscaria instantly. The opposite is true for my friend who could feel his Viscaria but not my TB ALC.

Anyone with any logical explainations?

first of all, viscaria has balsa core which is lighter and more flexible than kiri.


Now
Maybe a viscaria user can enlighten us but I think its koto alc balsa alc koto so its a 5 ply blade but im not 100 % sure about this

"Feeling" is directly affected by stiffness (hard soft) of the plies, thickness , synergy between them and of course gluing techniques used to glue the plies together. I have played with many 5 ply wooden blades and handmade blades with special gluing techniques are always better in feeling, the best pros also use special crafted blades by their sponsors, whether they are composite or not

So if u feel better with viscaria just buy it, your hand doesnt lie even if you dont know the science behind a good blade. I have a friend who feels a lot better when he plays with stiff blades so its a matter of preference.

different people ahve different nervous systems so they like different vibrations as well. Hope I helped

 

[teddie]

Viscaria is not balsa, it's center layer is also kiri (same as TB ALC). The most likely difference in feeling is because of the weight difference between the blades (more density in wood, etc).

 

[Baal]

Some blades are just better than others even when they are the same model. Things made of wood are not identical. Could also be the age of the blades, the glue job, or maybe you prefer one handle to another, or weight. In general they are quite similar blades. They do something to the top surface of TB-ALC (maybe UV light??) that makes it a bit shinier, harder and faster than Viscaria.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

One thing I would say, I am not sure what the core of a Viscaria is. I know the black tag Viscaria I had years ago had a Balsa core and 7 plies. I have heard so many people say that the core is Kiri that, perhaps Butterfly made some one way and some the other before they settled on what the core should be.

But I find this page from Butterfly's online shop interesting:

http://shop.butterflyonline.com/viscaria-fl

-Combines Arylate fiber features of lightness, flexibility, and shock absorption with the Carbon fiber features of high elasticity and minimal dissipation of energy.

-Koto outer plies & Balsa core.

-Viscaria's compact head size makes it ideal for quick re-looping right off the bounce.

On that web page it does say the core is Balsa even though that may not be the case.



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[TTFrenzy]

One thing I would say, I am not sure what the core of a Viscaria is. I know the black tag Viscaria I had years ago had a Balsa core and 7 plies. I have heard so many people say that the core is Kiri that, perhaps Butterfly made some one way and some the other before they settled on what the core should be.

But I find this page from Butterfly's online shop interesting:

http://shop.butterflyonline.com/viscaria-fl

-Combines Arylate fiber features of lightness, flexibility, and shock absorption with the Carbon fiber features of high elasticity and minimal dissipation of energy.

-Koto outer plies & Balsa core.

-Viscaria's compact head size makes it ideal for quick re-looping right off the bounce.

On that web page it does say the core is Balsa even though that may not be the case.



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I dont find a reasonable reason, lol!, about how this can happen. If butterfly changed their minds and decided to put kiri on core, why not change it in their website? one can easily trace the difference between kiri and balsa and its bad publicity for the company

Last time I checked a viscaria it was 4 years ago and it definitely had a balsa core, dont remember if its 5 or 7 plies some sites say 7 others say 5

 

[TTFrenzy]

I mean one of the reasons that viscaria is so popular, except zhang is using it, is that it is light flexible, soft feeling, but does not lose on speed. So why change that? A viscaria collector (old,new, with old logo or not) please provide some info , cause I definitely want to try it out sometime as my main blade

 

[SilentRain]

Mmm If its Balsa Core then I guess that would explain the significant difference in feel. My friend bought his Viscaria 1 year ago so I assume its the latest model from butterfly.

 

[SilentRain]

Some blades are just better than others even when they are the same model. Things made of wood are not identical. Could also be the age of the blades, the glue job, or maybe you prefer one handle to another, or weight. In general they are quite similar blades. They do something to the top surface of TB-ALC (maybe UV light??) that makes it a bit shinier, harder and faster than Viscaria.

I get what you mean except for glue job. Do you mean gluing from Rubber to Blade or the different plies in the blade. I doubt the handle and weight will affect the feel as I'm referring to the "wood" like feel when i hit the ball and not the general feeling when i hold the blade.

 

[bobpuls]

The wood can be very different from trunk to trunk .. especially balsa when i cutting balsa ply i can feel how different is each in hardness ..

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

These are the plies I have seen listed as the plies for a Viscaria.

Koto-ALC-Limba-Kiri-Limba-ALC-Koto
Koto-ALC-Balsa-ALC-Koto
Koto-ALC-Limba-Balsa-Limba-ALC-Koto

But almost everyone who has one seems to feel the first version is what the plies are for a Viscaria.

@Baal: help out here: what are the plies of a Viscaria?

1) Are they 5 or 7 ply? My memory says mine was 7 ply and I think that is what they are.

2) Is the core Kiri or Balsa?

I am pretty sure Baal knows. He is an expert on this blade in particular. And knows much more about lots of other things than he lets on too.

[Now Edited]:
From online photos:

Side view of Viscaria:

That shows 7 plies.

Viscaria Light (different blade):

That is 5 plies and could be Balsa. Not sure. I am on a cell phone and walking. But...


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[TTFrenzy]

I get what you mean except for glue job. Do you mean gluing from Rubber to Blade or the different plies in the blade. I doubt the handle and weight will affect the feel as I'm referring to the "wood" like feel when i hit the ball and not the general feeling when i hold the blade.

He means the gluing techniques between the plies and the glue itself , which are very important. How the parts of the handle are connected with the rest of the blade also plays a role

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Weird software malfunction. Will edit later. That is the Viscaria light. But tapa talk would not let me edit.

[Text Edited: Now I have fixed the weird software malfunction that would not let me edit.]


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[Shuki]

I go numb to the woody feeling of a blade I've used for a while. Whenever I try anyone's blade, since it's different in some way, I can feel the vibrations that are different than what I'm used to. This used to cause me to think "oh shit this would have even better feel than what I'm using"

 

[TTFrenzy]

I go numb to the woody feeling of a blade I've used for a while. Whenever I try anyone's blade, since it's different in some way, I can feel the vibrations that are different than what I'm used to. This used to cause me to think "oh shit this would have even better feel than what I'm using"

haha that;s a common reaction for most players. Every time I switch blades with someone we are both like "dude ur blade feels much better than mine!!" Truth is you have to test a blade for a few sessions practicing different drills and then you realize where your blade is better/worse than the new blade you are trying

 

[Baal]

By glue job, I just meant attaching the rubber to the blade. Different blades, different owners, differnet procedures, etc. COuld change the feel.

But for all I know, they use different glue procedures to attach the plies together for the different models of blades. (I have no knowledge of this).

With that said, don't underestimate the role of the handle in affecting all aspects of the feel.

 

[Rajah*]

Lemme add to that confusion..
"Diffrent people with diffrent neurological receptor orientation pattern in our fingers, genetically and or work related". That is why we all have diffrent ball feel.

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[SilentRain]

Lemme add to that confusion..
"Diffrent people with diffrent neurological receptor orientation pattern in our fingers, genetically and or work related". That is why we all have diffrent ball feel.

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Still does not explain why I can feel a big difference in feel between 2 blades when they should have the same composition

 

[Rajah*]

Everythin is already explained from the prev posts.. they already gave you valuable informations

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[UpSideDownCarl]

If you selected 10 Viscarias that all weighed 90 grams, they all would feel a little different because would is a natural substance that is grown. Each tree of the same kind has a slightly different density of wood. Wood from the lower part of the trunk will even feel a bit different from wood higher on the same tree.

All 10 90 gram Viscarias will have slightly different feeling and playing characteristics. But they will also feel similar in many respects.

[Edit: bobpuls already said this. I am just adding more info to it. What he said should have been enough though.]


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