Friendship 729 battle 3

[Zwill]

So my B3 bubbled up after 2 and a half months of beating it to death. I had 2 rather small bubbles that were actually hard to detect but sometimes during brushing or serve the topsheet felt more stretchy than normal and sometimes the ball fell in the net and I didn't get it.

It's not so obvious to detect these bubbles. It's a bit sad but now I'm gonna try the Powerplay-X I had a while now. It's a good excuse.

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

My Racket is Finished Now:

Stiga Dynasty Carbon Xu Xin

Battle 3, 39 + 2 layers seamoon
Battle 3, 38 + 1 layer seamoon

I hope it will serve me well!

 

[Alwin]

Gold Arc 8 50 is my current backhand, and this has a very similar throw angle for passive blocking and drives, compared with my previous setup, which was Battle 2 Prov. Soft 37 (which is super nice on backhand, btw).

Thanks for the great reviews. What do you think of B3 vs B2 Soft 37 on BH?

I’ve used TG3-60 37deg which is a typical DHS hybrid tacky rubber for a while on BH, but looking to change something to with a bit more oomph

 

[turbozed]

So my B3 bubbled up after 2 and a half months of beating it to death. I had 2 rather small bubbles that were actually hard to detect but sometimes during brushing or serve the topsheet felt more stretchy than normal and sometimes the ball fell in the net and I didn't get it.

It's not so obvious to detect these bubbles. It's a bit sad but now I'm gonna try the Powerplay-X I had a while now. It's a good excuse.

Well that sucks. Did you boost it? Does B3 require boosting?

The sponge was supposed to be designed to last a long time. Kinda a waste of effort to design a long lasting sponge if they're not going to ensure the topsheet actually stays on it.

 

[Zwill]

Well that sucks. Did you boost it? Does B3 require boosting?

The sponge was supposed to be designed to last a long time. Kinda a waste of effort to design a long lasting sponge if they're not going to ensure the topsheet actually stays on it.

Well 2.5 months is not too bad for me actually. I kill LAC in a week easily if I start to use my power.
I only used a light boost since the sponge didn't stick to the glue.. A little bit of booster fixed this.
It's the weirdest thing about this rubber that it's a bit difficult to glue it out of the package. For the 2nd sheet I will use some FTL before gluing it so I hope it sticks from the start.

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

My thoughts about the setup after 1.5 training sessions:

It's great, but I still need to get used to it.

Feeling and touch are awesome.
Low to medium impact shots are significantly slower and more controlled,
which was one of my struggles before, especially blocks and soft counters.

Prior to this, I had Battle 3 on my forehand and on a faster blade.
It was great for power loops and creating dangerous balls for my opponent from any distance,
but it came at the cost of control.

I don't want to speak too soon, but I plan on keeping this racket for a longer time - without switching every 3-6 months.

 

[Lawsy]

Thanks for the great reviews. What do you think of B3 vs B2 Soft 37 on BH?

I’ve used TG3-60 37deg which is a typical DHS hybrid tacky rubber for a while on BH, but looking to change something to with a bit more oomph

Well, I liked it.
It is only faster than B3 up to the mid range. B3 takes over as B2P S37 is tapering off after that.

GA8 50 smokes both in the mid range and then B3 40 basically extends forever.

That somewhat begs the question: what's their limit behaviour?
GA8 50 has a seductively loud click sound when you really get after it, so you can actually hear when it's about to tap out. Once you find the limit, though, it's not going to give you any more.

B2P S37 rolls off much smoother, but it has less overall potential. If you're not currently bottoming out using 47 ESN, then it might be perfect. But for me, I hit straight through 47 ESN or 36/37 shore O hardness on backhand, so I went with the 50.

B3 hits the rev limiter so smoothly that you don't really notice it. That's why it feels like it has endless top end extension. However, I'm sure a pro would find it instantly...

 

[jk1980]

I had a pretty disappointing evening with the battle 3 H.38. I already stated that it does not have stickiness, but was at least grippy enough. Today the temperature were mild but there was high humidity. After a few balls that slipped while looping I had a look at the rubber and could not visibly see any moisture film on it. Rubbing my finger over it and doing the same with the PK50 showed the Battle 3 to be quite slippy. Cleaning out and letting it dry removed that effect and at least made it grippy again. One set later the slippiness came back and I would have probably needed to clean and wipe it every set. The only thing that still worked was power looping through the ball, but everything spinny was dodgy.

In the last training match I even twiddled the bat, so that I played with the PK50 on the forehand to finish off the last set. It was like day and night. My serves we returned into the net often and I could loop very spinny without slippage.

In have already ordered two further Battle 3 rubbers. One with 39 and one with 40 degrees.

My question for everybody who ever played with the battle 3: did you ever receive one that was not sticky ( can't lift a ball with it)?

 

[ttarc]

...
My question for everybody who ever played with the battle 3: did you ever receive one that was not sticky ( can't lift a ball with it)?

Depends on the ball... Nittaku J-Top or Premium: No chance to lift a ball when I'm sweating but maybe 10 to 20 cm under normal conditions, Sanwei ABS around 50 cm under normal conditions, Andro zeroTT around 2 cm (20 mm) but the best ball I've played with not only in humid conditions. B3, H3, Dignics 05, Glayzer 09C grip these zeroTT balls even when sweating in already humid conditions.

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

My question for everybody who ever played with the battle 3: did you ever receive one that was not sticky ( can't lift a ball with it)?

I had 4 Battle 3 rubbers so far.
In 38, 39 and 40 degrees.

All were relatively sticky, especially in the beginning.

 

[jk1980]

Depends on the ball... Nittaku J-Top or Premium: No chance to lift a ball when I'm sweating but maybe 10 to 20 cm under normal conditions, Sanwei ABS around 50 cm under normal conditions, Andro zeroTT around 2 cm (20 mm) but the best ball I've played with not only in humid conditions. B3, H3, Dignics 05, Glayzer 09C grip these zeroTT balls even when sweating in already humid conditions.

That is very helpful. I will put some zeroTT balls into the pouch next time.if the solution to humidity was simply to play specific balls, I would be ultra happy.

 

[ttarc]

That is very helpful. I will put some zeroTT balls into the pouch next time.if the solution to humidity was simply to play specific balls, I would be ultra happy.

If it were that simple... League matches and tournaments are the problem when one can't choose which balls to use.

Some data but only for different Butterfly balls and rubbers:
Table Tennis: Effect of Humidity on Racket Rubber Tribology, 2021

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/349393178_Table_Tennis_Effect_of_Humidity_on_Racket_Rubber_Tribology

 

[jk1980]

i have a pouch with different brand (DHS DJ40+, Andro 3S, Sanwei ABS Pro, Nittaku Premium 40+ and now Andro ZeroT) balls that i never use. In the venue i played today we used the tibhar training balls with green text on it. When i was training on wednesday a (1500 ttr) player from another club that i trained with asked me not to play with these balls. I was kinda surprised, but he said that he would notice the difference and that these are pretty bad balls.

He then got one of the Andro 3S balls, which another club that i frequent uses. I always thought that these were not very special balls, but perhaps they are at least better than the green text tibhar training balls. In the club he plays they use DHS he said.

Of course you can not pick and choose the balls in the competation, but at least regarding tournaments you know beforehand what balls they use and could theoretically prepare to play with these balls.

 

[Way Zooted]

Battle 3 looks very similar to Tibhar K1.

 

[ttarc]

i have a pouch with different brand (DHS DJ40+, Andro 3S, Sanwei ABS Pro, Nittaku Premium 40+ and now Andro ZeroT) balls that i never use. In the venue i played today we used the tibhar training balls with green text on it. When i was training on wednesday a (1500 ttr) player from another club that i trained with asked me not to play with these balls. I was kinda surprised, but he said that he would notice the difference and that these are pretty bad balls.

He then got one of the Andro 3S balls, which another club that i frequent uses. I always thought that these were not very special balls, but perhaps they are at least better than the green text tibhar training balls. In the club he plays they use DHS he said.

Of course you can not pick and choose the balls in the competation, but at least regarding tournaments you know beforehand what balls they use and could theoretically prepare to play with these balls.

There's quite a difference between balls. Personally I like DHS (D40+ and DJ40+) and their derivatives (e.g. from Andro) best although some of them like the 3S sound broken.
If no one believes you:
The Difference of the Stroke Effect between Two Types of New Material Seamed Plastic Table Tennis Ball: A Case Study of Nittaku and DHS, 2023 (a couple of years to late to convince the guys at my club...)

The Difference of the Stroke Effect between Two Types of New Material Seamed Plastic Table Tennis Ball: A Case Study of Nittaku and DHS

Background: Nittaku 40+ and DHS D40+ are new material seamed plastic table tennis balls, both of which are designated as official match balls and widely us

papers.ssrn.com

"Results: Results showed that there was a significant difference between the two types of new material seamed plastic table tennis ball in the ball speed and spin speed during the backhand backspin loop stroke (p = 0.041, p = 0.022, respectively), and the ball speed and spin speed of DHS D40+ were higher than that of Nittaku 40+ ball.
Conclusion: Compared with the DHS D40+ ball, when hitting the Nittaku 40+ ball, players need to increase the swing distance and hit the ball with more strength to improve the ball speed and rotation speed."

 

[Lawsy]

...

My question for everybody who ever played with the battle 3: did you ever receive one that was not sticky ( can't lift a ball with it)?

90 hours of play, I can still pickup the ball (and hold it). I clean after every session with water.

We use DHS 40 3 stars, which we get because they're cheapish and readily available, so I'm surprised to learn that you all consider these to be superior to significantly more expensive balls.

Anyway, even when there is so much ball dust and grime from the floor, transferred via the ball, that it can't pick the ball up, I can still loop through it just fine. Drives are obviously easy, so the fact that it loops like this is great.

B3 has a double layered adhesive treatment for the top sheet. It's hard for these newer processes to go wrong, but it isn't impossible.

So do you think you got a dud?

 

[andzejgolot]

This rubber is not sticky, semi sticky. This is not bad. Not spinny sensitive

 

[Lawsy]

Soooo, I'm finding it very interesting to see the effect of various environmental factors to rubber performance. As an engineering type that loves cars, racing, and a host of sport where the conditions matter, I shouldn't be all that surprised, yet I am.

However, a quick search seems to reveal that basically every rubber that exists has a similar story.

So my question is, could it be variability of the manufacturing process, or is it truly environmental?

I can't actually see a pattern that would be clear enough to make that call, because although we hear about the environmental cases more often, I'm no longer confident as to whether that's the only factor. It might simply be an effect multiplier, and it's possible that the underlying issue is rubber variability. Even in formula 1 tyres (arguably the most precisely controlled rubber production process), variability remains, so none are immune to this.

Thoughts?

 

[jk1980]

So do you think you got a dud?

I did buy this rubber perhaps 4 or more month ago and let it sit in the drawer unopened. When I glued it on and removed the protection foliage I instantly tested if it was sticky and it simply was not. So I would discard the possibility that I cleaned it wrong and removed the stickiness that way. I got this butterfly cleaner solution which I use and thatv did not harm the stickiness of PK50 nor Rakza Z even after several month.

 

[Lawsy]

I did buy this rubber perhaps 4 or more month ago and let it sit in the drawer unopened. When I glued it on and removed the protection foliage I instantly tested if it was sticky and it simply was not. So I would discard the possibility that I cleaned it wrong and removed the stickiness that way. I got this butterfly cleaner solution which I use and thatv did not harm the stickiness of PK50 nor Rakza Z even after several month.

It didn't sound like you had done anything, but you have identified where my suspicion started. The fact that it was virtually a non-tacky sheet immediately after peeling the vacuum seal, suggests it might have been faulty. Logically, the final process in manufacturing is likely the application of the adhesive layers and vacuum sealing. These should be low-risk processes which are likely sampled during production for QC purposes, rather than having someone check every single one (they likely do this per larger sheet for mechanical properties, before the final process).

I'm not suggesting that I know this to be fact, I'm simply relying on my own experience with certain companies and applying some additional logic, so if anyone has explicit knowledge of the process and I am in error, please let me know.


In case it wasn't clear before, straight out of the box, mine could pickup a ball, no trouble at all. In fact, I could pickup and throw the ball into the ceiling. Battle 2 Provincial could do this as well, probably even more so as it is tackier than B3. I can almost do this now, even after 90 hours, but not quite so forcefully. My other sheet, the 39 I had on a T11S, was identical in how tacky it was new and just before I sold it (after 25 hours).

It's quite possible that your sheet just happened to be defective and that's really unfortunate. It might be worthwhile contacting the seller and letting them know. You probably won't get anything for it, but it can't hurt to let them know, in case it happens again.