German League 2024-2025 Bundesliga Match between Fulda and Ochenhausen TTBL

[NextLevel]

You are not wrong. Calderano has had portuguise citizenship since 2016, so a line-up of Togami, Calderano and Gauzy for a league and/or cup match would (technically) be possible. It's unlikely, however, that this line-up will be available on a regular basis. Too bad.

I believe they had Calderano, Gauzy and Jha for a short period. While Togami won't be always around, I don't see why he can't be a staple for league matches especially critical ones since Mizutani had something similar going on and was a staple. Calderano same thing, I don't get why he isn't available, in priorr times, I think the Russian league was paying him more. The details of what keeps them from fielding the team will be interesting for sure. Not all matches obviously, but it should be their lineup for big matches.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I believe they had Calderano, Gauzy and Jha for a short period. While Togami won't be always around, I don't see why he can't be a staple for league matches especially critical ones since Mizutani had something similar going on and was a staple. Calderano same thing, I don't get why he isn't available, in priorr times, I think the Russian league was paying him more. The details of what keeps them from fielding the team will be interesting for sure. Not all matches obviously, but it should be their lineup for big matches.

these players that aren't available have other commitments.
everything is transparent with clubs and that is part of the risks the club needs to take when they sign super stars.
The super stars have more important features to take part and is all part of the negotiation before joining said club for said league.

Being on the roster is one thing, whether they available to play or not, is another.
Some times the club need to use more money to attract them for crucial league matches.

and this is where WTT mandatory will disrupt a lot of league matches since WTT contract supersedes any leagues and withdrawal from WTT does not allow players to play league matches

 

[\_Kairos_/]

I believe they had Calderano, Gauzy and Jha for a short period. While Togami won't be always around, I don't see why he can't be a staple for league matches especially critical ones since Mizutani had something similar going on and was a staple. Calderano same thing, I don't get why he isn't available, in priorr times, I think the Russian league was paying him more. The details of what keeps them from fielding the team will be interesting for sure. Not all matches obviously, but it should be their lineup for big matches.

Are you referring to Mizutanis time in Germany when he was a teenager (and was living in Germany) or his time with Gazprom Orenburg? I assume it's the latter...

While Ochsenhausen is a decent TTBL club, Togami costs them a lot of money per match (relatively speaking), but Gazprom is on a whole different level financially. It's a bit like comparing your "average" lottery millionaire from the 'hood with guys like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. Even Düsseldorf cannot keep up with a club like Gazprom Orenburg financially - and they (Düsseldorf) are something like the Bayern Munich of the TTBL. Gazprom Orenburg is/was really an outliner in that respect and could afford to have Dima, Vladi and Mizutani on the roster at the same time and pay each of them - according to rumours - a seven figure sum per year in order to appear in many league and cup matches, not just a few selected ones. Granted, back then we didn't have the unpredictability of the WTT scheduling...

Regarding Calderano: Even when he "left" Ochsenhausen and briefly played for Gazprom, he was still living and practicing in Ochsenhausen. Togami, however, is not exactly living next door.
Ochsenhausen will fly Togami in only for selected league and cup matches - likely for financial as well as practical reasons - provided he is healthy and the WTT is not up with any of their scheduling shenenigans.

Anyway, Tony summed it up pretty nicely, too...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

yep, some time the club will just use the player few times (or for crucial matches).

See, I have learnt alot about German league recently, haha.
Other than the members on TTD helping guide me, I have also spent a lot of time asking a formal German national player/national coach. Every day, I am like learning something new.
He told me some team wanted to promote and negotiated with 3 players to be on the team roster, a Taiwanese, Korean and Chinese. but they only allowed to use one of them at a time, so depending who is available. and the Cost for them is only when the player pitches when called upon. I was told of a very expensive "turn up fee" for that specific example.... wow.

 

[andzejgolot]

I think the club were paying Togami but "family" get the money
I called family because this is not money for federation, federation pays for your training partners and your main coaches too and for me Togami will sit in Germany one season because "the family " wants him to stay and play with the best.

 

[backspacer]

Not sure how often or if at all it's an issue really, but Bruna for instance was not able to play in the final's second match for the German championship between Weinheim and Berlin because she ran into trouble with her visa. I guess that might also be something to think about for some players' availability.

 

[\_Kairos_/]

... and for me Togami will sit in Germany one season because "the family " wants him to stay and play with the best.

Come on, don't be silly. Togami won't be "sitting around" in Germany for a whole year. Asia still has the highest density of world class players. That's where he needs to be and very probably wants to be anyway...
Togami is not a teenager anymore as Mizutani was when he was in Germany. He already has a more than comfortable situation in Japan and it would be a bit foolish for him to move to Germany in order to live, train and play there. That would hurt his development at least to some degree.

 

[NextLevel]

Come on, don't be silly. Togami won't be "sitting around" in Germany for a whole year. Asia still has the highest density of world class players. That's where he needs to be and very probably wants to be anyway...
Togami is not a teenager anymore as Mizutani was when he was in Germany. He already has a more than comfortable situation in Japan and it would be a bit foolish for him to move to Germany in order to live, train and play there. That would hurt his development at least to some degree.

Not really. Mizutani has heavily advocated that players go abroad to develop because playing under comfortable conditions in Japan is not going to foster their development and help them adapt to uncomfortable conditions. And for someone like Togami, it is entirely possible that they (his family/team) think a full year in Germany other than WTT/ITTF events is best for his development at the current time. So this is less about age and more about what they think is most important for him to get to the next level.

 

[\_Kairos_/]

Not really. Mizutani has heavily advocated that players go abroad to develop because playing under comfortable conditions in Japan is not going to foster their development and help them adapt to uncomfortable conditions. And for someone like Togami, it is entirely possible that they (his family/team) think a full year in Germany other than WTT/ITTF events is best for his development at the current time. So this is less about age and more about what they think is most important for him to get to the next level.

Fair enough. I like Togamis style anyway, so whatever he'll do, I'm rooting for him. If he's really going to move to Germany and play in most of Ochsenhausen's matches, it'll cost them...ouch.

 

[fore.n.back]

Come on, don't be silly. Togami won't be "sitting around" in Germany for a whole year. Asia still has the highest density of world class players. That's where he needs to be and very probably wants to be anyway...
Togami is not a teenager anymore as Mizutani was when he was in Germany. He already has a more than comfortable situation in Japan and it would be a bit foolish for him to move to Germany in order to live, train and play there. That would hurt his development at least to some degree.

Asia has the highest density of world class players, but Togami can only rely on T-league to compete, Korea and China aren't as developed regarding national club-level tournaments (China Super League is no different from a closed training environment for CNT, not to mention they mostly won't accept foreign player let alone a Japanese). The T-league has a certain pool of players and among them Togami is already top tier and need a fresh environment to train

 

[andzejgolot]

Yukiya Uda sits in Germany all season just to win everything and go to Olympics. And Yall know how the story ends. Togami has problems with European players. Karlsson was a lot better in his prime game aka counter shots

 

[NextLevel]

Ochenhausen dream team playing Kanak's team now:

Calderano has beaten Duda, Gauzy lost to Jha and now Togami is playing Rassenfosse.

 

[obsidian d]

Man Togami lost to Rassenfose. Bundesliga is tough.

 

[NextLevel]

Man Togami lost to Rassenfose. Bundesliga is tough.

Water is wet lol... but this is why Mizutani wants them to get out more rather than just stay comfortable in Japanese leagues...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Water is wet lol... but this is why Mizutani wants them to get out more rather than just stay comfortable in Japanese leagues...

I agree they need to get out more
so many players (especially from Americas) rely on European leagues (and its environment) to grow to the top level.
China as well as Japan lacks competition practice, since only a few are expose to non-Asians.
Leagues in Europe should be a good training ground, since there are so many divisions and you could send dozens of players out and to test themselves out.

 

[fore.n.back]

Man Togami lost to Rassenfose. Bundesliga is tough.

it's no different from his 5th lost to Moregard at Macau, lack of tactical adjustment and awareness. Rassenfose actively flicked to the FH corner and Togami got caught off guard multiple times, yet almost no changes were made in his serving tactics. It was only until the final doubles match that he was able to play his own game, thanks to the experienced Gauzy

 

[fore.n.back]

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Borussia Dortmund - TTF Liebherr Ochsenhausen​

The line-up:
Togami - Li Yongyin
Calderano - Nuytinck
Gauzy - Berglund
Calderano - Li

Does anyone have any info on Li Yongyin, dude has just casually smacked Togami with a 3-0 victory. Li was flawless in topspin rallies no matter close table or mid range, I find the one of the thing that him and other professional Chinese players all got in common is the abilly to create and vary the arc of the shots. On the other hand Japanese ever since Harimoto train their cubs to play quick table tennis, suppresing the arc based on choosing an early contact point, and this was shown clearly as Togami was being passive and lost in most of the longer rallies

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

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Borussia Dortmund - TTF Liebherr Ochsenhausen​

The line-up:
Togami - Li Yongyin
Calderano - Nuytinck
Gauzy - Berglund
Calderano - Li

Does anyone have any info on Li Yongyin, dude has just casually smacked Togami with a 3-0 victory. Li was flawless in topspin rallies no matter close table or mid range, I find the one of the thing that him and other professional Chinese players all got in common is the abilly to create and vary the arc of the shots. On the other hand Japanese ever since Harimoto train their cubs to play quick table tennis, suppresing the arc based on choosing an early contact point, and this was shown clearly as Togami was being passive and lost in most of the longer rallies

I literally just finished watching the match live in the hall and have some footage of a couple of points, none of the good points though.

All of Dortmunds Players are lefties.

1. Every single serve with exception of maybe 2 or 3 were short/half long to the forehand. Some underspin, some no spin. Barely any variation.
Togami tried to keep some of them short and some of them he flipped.
Li was winning most of the rallies,
his Chinese technique and footwork was appareant.

Togami couldn't gain an advantage by being overly aggressive or with his serves.

The arc and quality on Lis loops were really amazing.

Li didn't give Togami anything for Free, he had to work for every single point.


Overall it was astonishing to see such high level players in person and so close to the action.


Gauzy was the better Simon in that match against Simon Berglund.
Not much to say, he was just better.
Some showmanship as well.

Gauzy backhand Topspin has an incredible arc to it.


Calderano took his time to get warmed up in the match against Nuytinck but after the first 1.5 sets he got going.

Li vs Calderano was the highlight in terms of quality.

Li had his chances but Calderano brought so many back.

His 3rd Ball Attack forehands were unstoppable, as loud and hard as it gets.

Li had some trouble with Hugos serves.
And his own 3rd Ball attacks didn't win him the points.

 

[NextLevel]

Boll vs Dima live:

 

[latej]

Boll vs Dima live:

Is Dima's serve legal?

EDIT: It seems he leaves the non-playing hand there as long as possible. I've seen that recently in other, Chinesse, players. Anyway, seems border-line to me. My vote: ban it, non-playing hand must go away immediately. Well, how to formulate it - I don't know.