Help choosing a custom racket

[TareqPhoto]

And sorry to flashback this thread, but i went back to read the first page, i did mention Butterfly models but the first posts didn't mention me Butterfly, just telling me any All+, and i was new and didn't know which Butterfly All+ or Off- models, i even listed Primorac but EX one and didn't know, ignore those fastest expensive ones i posted too, but from the first few posts i felt that my choices of Butterfly were wrong but no one did tell me the one of BTY before i go far more and felt that all BTY is OFF+ or very fast and nothing good.

 

[BeGo]

And sorry to flashback this thread, but i went back to read the first page, i did mention Butterfly models but the first posts didn't mention me Butterfly, just telling me any All+, and i was new and didn't know which Butterfly All+ or Off- models, i even listed Primorac but EX one and didn't know, ignore those fastest expensive ones i posted too, but from the first few posts i felt that my choices of Butterfly were wrong but no one did tell me the one of BTY before i go far more and felt that all BTY is OFF+ or very fast and nothing good.

For butterfly, information of which blade belong to which category is both in the FAQ, and in the catalogue.

http://www.butterflyonline.com/static.asp?htmltemplate=FAQs.html

Compare with reviews to get the big picture.

Each brand more or less have this kind of info, mainly in the catalogue.

But,

Take the info as caution, and trust your hand.

 

[NextLevel]

TareqPhoto,

You are like many smart people out there - you have dealt with many people who do not know what they are talking about, so you want to understand yourself, so you are doing your research. The problem is that some things in life are too complicated to research unless you have the right background. And at some point, you have to trust or listen to one expert and when you learn certain things and see how effective what that expert said was, you can use what you learn to evaluate other things.

Everyone has told you that

1) at the level you have described yourself at, it is better to get a control set up than an offensive set up.
2) at some point, it is likely that you will buy another set up, therefore, if you really want to play, don't waste your time choosing a perfect setup
3) the game is mostly about skills, not set up,
4) faster setups make it harder for you to learn skills because the faster setup encourages you to take shots that are not going to improve your game, while discouraging the shots that you need to improve your game.

All of us responding to you, have at one point or another, have spent a lot of time and money buying equipment. All of us have learned that training is more important than equipment. All of us have learned that very fast equipment is good for some things and bad for some things, and the things it is good for are not things that beginners should do. Like it or not, you are a beginner. I played table tennis without coaching on and off for about give or take 15 years of my life with gaps and breaks. I could beat most people who had never entered a table tennis club before very easily. But when I started playing tournament table tennis, I was being beaten by kids under 10 years old (who weren't that good, by the way) because they knew a few tricks I didn't know. With 4 months of coaching, I became as good as those kids (who had improved BTW), and 1 year later, those kids were not in my class anymore because I was much better than they were.

Even very, very, very smart people often do not understand table tennis, not because they don't get the logic or the physics, but because there are things you need to experience to fully appreciate how complex this sport is. The time you have spent deciding what to you use will not make you a better player. Equipment does not make you a better player. Training is what makes you a better player. Equipment can only help or hinder your ability to play the way you want to play but without understanding what is possible (which is easiest to understand with a control setup), you will make bad decisions on how to play if you use offensive equipment that is too fast for your level of experience (unless you get coaching, in which case, let the coach decide what you should use as he will determine your style in the short term).

Let me give you an example of how complicated this game is. My brother, who is younger and smarter than myself, saw me play after a year and a half of coaching (I was about USATT 1500 at this time) and felt that I was playing worse than I did when I was younger. Of course, from a physical and movement standpoint, he may have been right, but from a stand point of technique and spin generation, he had no clue what he was talking about because he doesn't play or understand the sport.

My impression is that you really don't enjoy this game. You have not participated in any other threads or discussions other than the ones related your equipment. That's not a big deal, but you have spent so long on this without discussing your actual playing experience that you actually do not play that much. You probably want to beat someone who laughed at you, but believe me, equipment will not help you do that. I can beat most people who have never seen the inside of a club playing with a book or a cell phone or even a plank of wood (and even some who have).

IF you buy something, you will probably use it to impress your friends or to show people that since you play with Butterfly, you are a serious player. But actually play, not so much. People who want to play get something to play with, play a lot and talk about how they play.

 

[TareqPhoto]

For butterfly, information of which blade belong to which category is both in the FAQ, and in the catalogue.

http://www.butterflyonline.com/static.asp?htmltemplate=FAQs.html

Compare with reviews to get the big picture.

Each brand more or less have this kind of info, mainly in the catalogue.

But,

Take the info as caution, and trust your hand.

Cool, so helpful link, thank you very much

 

[TareqPhoto]

TareqPhoto,

You are like many smart people out there - you have dealt with many people who do not know what they are talking about, so you want to understand yourself, so you are doing your research. The problem is that some things in life are too complicated to research unless you have the right background. And at some point, you have to trust or listen to one expert and when you learn certain things and see how effective what that expert said was, you can use what you learn to evaluate other things.

Everyone has told you that

1) at the level you have described yourself at, it is better to get a control set up than an offensive set up.
2) at some point, it is likely that you will buy another set up, therefore, if you really want to play, don't waste your time choosing a perfect setup
3) the game is mostly about skills, not set up,
4) faster setups make it harder for you to learn skills because the faster setup encourages you to take shots that are not going to improve your game, while discouraging the shots that you need to improve your game.

All of us responding to you, have at one point or another, have spent a lot of time and money buying equipment. All of us have learned that training is more important than equipment. All of us have learned that very fast equipment is good for some things and bad for some things, and the things it is good for are not things that beginners should do. Like it or not, you are a beginner. I played table tennis without coaching on and off for about give or take 15 years of my life with gaps and breaks. I could beat most people who had never entered a table tennis club before very easily. But when I started playing tournament table tennis, I was being beaten by kids under 10 years old (who weren't that good, by the way) because they knew a few tricks I didn't know. With 4 months of coaching, I became as good as those kids (who had improved BTW), and 1 year later, those kids were not in my class anymore because I was much better than they were.

Even very, very, very smart people often do not understand table tennis, not because they don't get the logic or the physics, but because there are things you need to experience to fully appreciate how complex this sport is. The time you have spent deciding what to you use will not make you a better player. Equipment does not make you a better player. Training is what makes you a better player. Equipment can only help or hinder your ability to play the way you want to play but without understanding what is possible (which is easiest to understand with a control setup), you will make bad decisions on how to play if you use offensive equipment that is too fast for your level of experience (unless you get coaching, in which case, let the coach decide what you should use as he will determine your style in the short term).

Let me give you an example of how complicated this game is. My brother, who is younger and smarter than myself, saw me play after a year and a half of coaching (I was about USATT 1500 at this time) and felt that I was playing worse than I did when I was younger. Of course, from a physical and movement standpoint, he may have been right, but from a stand point of technique and spin generation, he had no clue what he was talking about because he doesn't play or understand the sport.

My impression is that you really don't enjoy this game. You have not participated in any other threads or discussions other than the ones related your equipment. That's not a big deal, but you have spent so long on this without discussing your actual playing experience that you actually do not play that much. You probably want to beat someone who laughed at you, but believe me, equipment will not help you do that. I can beat most people who have never seen the inside of a club playing with a book or a cell phone or even a plank of wood (and even some who have).

IF you buy something, you will probably use it to impress your friends or to show people that since you play with Butterfly, you are a serious player. But actually play, not so much. People who want to play get something to play with, play a lot and talk about how they play.

Ok, let's say i will not think about Butterfly, so what do you want me to choose as start? you will say maybe anything that is All+ or all around is good for you, but that can be hundreds of choices, you have a specific model you recommend me? if so is that according to your experience or your preference or people reviews? because each has own experience of something they start with and they are happy with.

And also, even when i said Butterfly, and by mistake i posted very fast blades, that doesn't mean i will buy those for sure, in few previous posts i was corrected with which models of Butterfly i should go if i must choose Butterfly, so are you telling me now that all Butterfly blades are not good to start with at all and none is good enough to use for beginners? I am surprised that the coach and even that owner/salesman recommended me Yasaka Max Wood while i saw few Butterfly blades that are about cheap and same performance maybe even slower than Yasaka, so it is like not about the control choice, it is about the brand choice.

At the end, in the university i saw a Butterfly racket that is pre-assembled and looks cheap, and i don't know about it at all, the blade logo has BTY and the name is WakabaII -FL, and the rubber is Wakaba D-13 on both sides, what type of blade is it if you have any info about it?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You see Tareq, here is a blatant example of you being a trouble maker. Of you trying to put words in other people's mouths that have nothing to do with what they said. Of you conflating what one person told you with something that someone else did when showing you blades. Of you trying to start an argument.

....so are you telling me now that all Butterfly blades are not good to start with at all and none is good enough to use for beginners? I am surprised that the coach and even that owner/salesman recommended me Yasaka Max Wood while i saw few Butterfly blades that are about cheap and same performance maybe even slower than Yasaka, so it is like not about the control choice, it is about the brand choice.

Show me where NextLevel said anything about what brand you should and shouldn't get! Show me where NextLevel said that Butterfly doesn't have good blades for you to start with!

Why do you think you know what the sales person who showed you a Yasaka blade was thinking? My money says that he knew the Yasaka blade was good and would be right for you. Yasaka has some great blades in the All+ and Off- range. The Yasaka Extra and Yasaka Mark V Special are both great blades. If he had a Yasaka Extra I would grab that. It is an awesome blade.

But you think it means he was trying to make you get something that is a different brand than Butterfly rather than that he is trying to show you an excellent blade. And then somehow you decide that NextLevel and the salesperson are telling you that Butterfly is no good.

One thing I can tell you is that NextLevel doesn't say anything about what brand to buy or not to buy. But you are trying to put words in his mouth that he didn't say, and you are trying to argue with him. All you are actually doing is being a trouble maker by doing that.

Instead you should read his post and thank him, and press the like button, because his post is a great one. All the technical details he presents are great information for you to learn from. Read it, learn and press like instead of trying to argue with him.

And he has some really good points about you at the end as well but you just took them as insults instead of understanding how helpful those insights might be for you.

If you really were playing a lot you would be participating in other threads about playing and asking questions that could help you play better rather than trying to make people mad by accusing them of saying things they did not say and causing trouble. You also wouldn't be so fussed about equipment if you were playing. Just go play somewhere.

And about that bat that you saw, why didn't you pick it up, hit with it and see how it feels. Then you don't need to ask questions about it. Go back. Try it out and tell us what it felt like to you. Tell us if it is better for chopping or attacking. Tell us how your serves are with it. Which serves you can do the best with it.



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[NextLevel]

TareqPhoto,

A blade is made of wood and composite materials. Trees are different, and therefore, the wood from that tree is different, but the type of wood is the same.

Many different brands use the same kinds of woods to make blades. So for example, you may hear of a Butterfly Korbel and a Tibhar Stratus Powerwood or even an Xiom Offensive S - all these blades are slightly different, but the wood used to make them is the same.

For me, the wood is more important than the blade brand. But for you, you should really get something (ANYTHING) and play.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

TareqPhoto,

A blade is made of wood and composite materials. Trees are different, and therefore, the wood from that tree is different, but the type of wood is the same.

Many different brands use the same kinds of woods to make blades. So for example, you may hear of a Butterfly Korbel and a Tibhar Stratus Powerwood or even an Xiom Offensive S - all these blades are slightly different, but the wood used to make them is the same.

For me, the wood is more important than the blade brand. But for you, you should really get something (ANYTHING) and play.

That is another awesome post. There are places where you can read about what woods are in many different blades. That is much more valuable to help you know what blades may work well for a person.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

And in spite of the other good information, this is the most important part.

But for you, you should really get something (ANYTHING) and play.

Even play before you get anything. Just play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TareqPhoto]

You see Tareq, here is a blatant example of you being a trouble maker. Of you trying to put words in other people's mouths that have nothing to do with what they said. Of you conflating what one person told you with something that someone else did when showing you blades. Of you trying to start an argument.



Show me where NextLevel said anything about what brand you should and shouldn't get! Show me where NextLevel said that Butterfly doesn't have good blades for you to start with!

Why do you think you know what the sales person who showed you a Yasaka blade was thinking? My money says that he knew the Yasaka blade was good and would be right for you. Yasaka has some great blades in the All+ and Off- range. The Yasaka Extra and Yasaka Mark V Special are both great blades. If he had a Yasaka Extra I would grab that. It is an awesome blade.

But you think it means he was trying to make you get something that is a different brand than Butterfly rather than that he is trying to show you an excellent blade. And then somehow you decide that NextLevel and the salesperson are telling you that Butterfly is no good.

One thing I can tell you is that NextLevel doesn't say anything about what brand to buy or not to buy. But you are trying to put words in his mouth that he didn't say, and you are trying to argue with him. All you are actually doing is being a trouble maker by doing that.

Instead you should read his post and thank him, and press the like button, because his post is a great one. All the technical details he presents are great information for you to learn from. Read it, learn and press like instead of trying to argue with him.

And he has some really good points about you at the end as well but you just took them as insults instead of understanding how helpful those insights might be for you.

If you really were playing a lot you would be participating in other threads about playing and asking questions that could help you play better rather than trying to make people mad by accusing them of saying things they did not say and causing trouble. You also wouldn't be so fussed about equipment if you were playing. Just go play somewhere.

And about that bat that you saw, why didn't you pick it up, hit with it and see how it feels. Then you don't need to ask questions about it. Go back. Try it out and tell us what it felt like to you. Tell us if it is better for chopping or attacking. Tell us how your serves are with it. Which serves you can do the best with it.

When the students are back i will go and test the bat that i saw and see how i can feel about it when i use it in playing.

Thanks!

 

[TareqPhoto]

TareqPhoto,

A blade is made of wood and composite materials. Trees are different, and therefore, the wood from that tree is different, but the type of wood is the same.

Many different brands use the same kinds of woods to make blades. So for example, you may hear of a Butterfly Korbel and a Tibhar Stratus Powerwood or even an Xiom Offensive S - all these blades are slightly different, but the wood used to make them is the same.

For me, the wood is more important than the blade brand. But for you, you should really get something (ANYTHING) and play.

That is another awesome post. There are places where you can read about what woods are in many different blades. That is much more valuable to help you know what blades may work well for a person.

And here where it comes about that i may buy more than 1 racket, so one is all wooden, another is Butterfly, third is cheap something like Yin He, as long i don't know what to buy or if i want to have a specific brand, to be honest, i still don't know which wooden models of Butterfly are there, even Primorac Off- says 5 ply but has 1-2 layers not wood.

Well, i didn't play with that Butterfly i found in the univ. sports coach office, but it was lightweight which i like, it was similar to my bat i get used in the past not sure which model [Stiga i think], so handling is nice, but how it will perform in playing i will figure out later, hope the student going back to study, there is no another place to play free in my area, unfortunately.

 

[TareqPhoto]

And in spite of the other good information, this is the most important part.



Even play before you get anything. Just play.

If i can find another place to play free rather than university i will not wait, but there isn't, so i left with questions and chatting and conversations, once i start to play and buy my racket i may not come here at all.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

....to be honest, i still don't know which wooden models of Butterfly are there, even Primorac Off- says 5 ply but has 1-2 layers not wood.

Not sure where you got that idea from. These are the plies of the Primorac Off-:

Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

That is a classic all wood blade.

But you are on the right track if your first focus is playing. Posting on a forum is not as valuable as playing. When I am posting, I am not playing. I would always rather be playing.


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[TareqPhoto]

Not sure where you got that idea from. These are the plies of the Primorac Off-:

Limba-Limba-Ayous-Limba-Limba

That is a classic all wood blade.

But you are on the right track if your first focus is playing. Posting on a forum is not as valuable as playing. When I am posting, I am not playing. I would always rather be playing.

Thanks, i didn't know that Limba is a natural wood or even artificial wood, that clarify it then, if you didn't tell me i may won't know even if i read about it, things will be much easier for me if i can read in my main/mother language.

I must play whether with $1 racket or $1000, without that any racket will not give me anything to impress or review or feel, i can buy a racket and play against a wall forever, lol

Well, it sounds i must wait a bit, a budget, students getting back so they can play, find free places, or even to have extra budget so i can pay membership at least so i can play, i don't/won't think of paying daily rate instead.

Ok, Primorac Off- is one option or recommendation you gave, is there any other all wooden blade from Butterfly beside this one?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Ok, Primorac Off- is one option or recommendation you gave, is there any other all wooden blade from Butterfly beside this one?

There were three others recommended to you in this thread: Petr Korbel, Timo Boll All+ and Timo Boll Off-. However, I personally feel that the Timo Boll W5 would be a much better quality blade than the TB All+ or Off-. And the Korbel and the Primorac are still better. It is one of Butterfly's best selling blades of all time for a real reason.

 

[TareqPhoto]

There were three others recommended to you in this thread: Petr Korbel, Timo Boll All+ and Timo Boll Off-. However, I personally feel that the Timo Boll W5 would be a much better quality blade than the TB All+ or Off-. And the Korbel and the Primorac are still better. It is one of Butterfly's best selling blades of all time for a real reason.

Great, that is good to know, thanks!

So now i have the options and you gave me enough information, it all coming to me to start to play and also if i must buy then i will go with Primorac over the other ones you mentioned and go from there, i think until i buy something i will play some games and see how is my style so far.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Good. Playing, even if you are borrowing a racket. That is good.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Good. Playing, even if you are borrowing a racket. That is good.

If i will play in the university then i have no choice but to use the rackets available there, and the coach bought some those very cheap butterfly WakabaII blades, they sounds not bad and suitable for all players.

 

[Saevio]

Good. Playing, even if you are borrowing a racket. That is good.

Hello there. I was lurking before, and had to register and thank you for the long and informative post about bats, blades and rubbers. Even if Tareq can seem trolly at times, this post helped me. So thank you.

I, as many before me, played locally as a kid, never got crazy about it, and then left it behind until a few months ago - I started a new job, and they actually have a TT table at my workplace. I now play every other day or so, for about an hour on average, sometimes longer. Until now, I'd been using a Stiga Fury, premade bat, and have discovered that I'm a blocker with angry topspin drives mixed in. So far, so generic. As I need to work on my game, I've read lots of advice, and it's all slightly different. Do this, do that, avoid this and so on.

I've just pulled the trigger on a Timo Boll ALL+, with 1.7 Srivers. Perfectly middle of the road, with a slight lean towards offensive. I'm looking forward to learning technique and improving my strokes and developing the feeling for TT now - Your post very eloquently and accessibly summarised the framework and the REASONING behind not getting the fastest speedmonster blade and rubbers and then failing to improve because of the difficulty floor on the setup being above your own skill ceiling, meaning there's little to no way of climbing up there and getting going.

So while you may feel that your advice was old hat, repetition of something spouted repeatedly to unwashed masses of armchair enthusiasts with no return... I wanted to tell you - It was valuable and useful advice to me. Thank you!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hello there. I was lurking before, and had to register and thank you for the long and informative post about bats, blades and rubbers. Even if Tareq can seem trolly at times, this post helped me. So thank you.

I, as many before me, played locally as a kid, never got crazy about it, and then left it behind until a few months ago - I started a new job, and they actually have a TT table at my workplace. I now play every other day or so, for about an hour on average, sometimes longer. Until now, I'd been using a Stiga Fury, premade bat, and have discovered that I'm a blocker with angry topspin drives mixed in. So far, so generic. As I need to work on my game, I've read lots of advice, and it's all slightly different. Do this, do that, avoid this and so on.

I've just pulled the trigger on a Timo Boll ALL+, with 1.7 Srivers. Perfectly middle of the road, with a slight lean towards offensive. I'm looking forward to learning technique and improving my strokes and developing the feeling for TT now - Your post very eloquently and accessibly summarised the framework and the REASONING behind not getting the fastest speedmonster blade and rubbers and then failing to improve because of the difficulty floor on the setup being above your own skill ceiling, meaning there's little to no way of climbing up there and getting going.

So while you may feel that your advice was old hat, repetition of something spouted repeatedly to unwashed masses of armchair enthusiasts with no return... I wanted to tell you - It was valuable and useful advice to me. Thank you!

Carl defiantly is a very patience person
When I sense the troll like response, then I just ignored this thread. But glad that it seems that this thread should be coming to an end (not often getting such a long thread in TT forums).

Anyways, welcome back to the sport and well done on choosing a decent allround setup.
Trust me, you will never regret it.

See if you can find a TT club near by, and go there and get some coaching. Some players may even give you good handy advice on how to improve your technique, free of charge too.
At the end of the day, if you can spin the ball more (and keep it on), you will become work champion in no time

I was invited to give some "intro to TT" to some new players. And it is great to see how they fall in love with the sport in just a session or two of play.
So good luck and have fun!!