How does blade influence gameplay?

[Der_Echte]

The thing I am wondering about, didn't you say you don't like H3???? Why do you want to use a rubber you don't like and have trouble with. H3 is hard. Even when you boost it, it is hard in a way that is different than Euro/Japanese rubbers. It works differently.

Also, the 38 and 39 degree H3s are still hard. 42-degree sponge on an H3 is like using a brick with a tacky topsheet on it.

ON some blades, that sucker is worse than the feel of a jackhammer trying hard to break through 1/2 meter of concrete sidewalk while it is raining. (Emphisis added by Der_Echte )

So, if you don't like H3, don't use it. If you don't like hard rubbers then definitely don't bother.

Boosting will make the sponge softer but it will not make the sponge feel like Euro rubber. Haifa Seamoon Booster and Dianchi Booster are the best boosters for H3. But each costs about $50.00 to get. They are designed to work on H3 sponge. They work well. You just read the directions and follow them. Or you could try things like torch oil, baby oil, lighter fluid. However, those things don't work as well on DHS rubbers as they do on Euro/Japanese rubbers. And if you don't know how to do it--amounts, the way to mix them, how long to leave it on--good luck... Hopefully you have 2 or 3 extra H3s lying around to test on. Then you would figure it out using the chemicals from the hardware store. Oh, and any flammable solvent will work; even gasoline. But then your racket will not pass the tests if it got tested for VOCs.

Might as well get a rubber you like rather than messing with one you don't like and spending the money to try and figure out how to boost it.

The thing that makes H3 feel hard (and it IS overall hard even if you soften up the sponge) is that the topsheet is THICK and almost bulletproof. Off course if yout timing is there, you can be very good and make a slow spinny loop using mostly the topsheet barely grazing the ball, but H3 is not exactly the most linear rubber out there. It requires a LOT of forward swing and a LOT of blade speed at impact to make it work well with control. If your impact is not there, you will have a bad day at the office using H3. Also, H3 doesn't harmonize with every blade out there. I choose Aurus and XP 2008 S. Power, because they work on just about every blade out there and I know what I am getting.

H3 on the wrong blade is even worse a mistake if you already don't have the impact to use it. On the W-6 (and many other vibrating blades) the vibration created will really disturb you and on your 50-80 power loops, it is difficult and inconsistent to engage the sponge for control and spin. You need a fast bat BANG impact and such an impact on a vibrating blade will drive your hand and brain bananas. Even on some stiffer and thicker blades, H3 can feel bad until you either break it in soften the sponge with oil. That can take forever (break in) or you can easily mess up the job (oil on sponge) All that stuff is a hassle anyway.

If a player doesn't have the right impact to take advantage of H3, having H3 on your blade won't help you out any, unless you really dig watching your balls go all over the place except landing on the other end. If you already got H3 and don't have the impact, just tuck it away to use later when you have a better impact, or sell it off to a friend.

XP 2008 also has a thichkish topsheet, but it is a little short of the bulletproof one of H3 or Inspirit. Even with XP 2008, you need to make your own power a bit. Sure, the topsheet is a LOT more elastic than H3, but it is still kinda thick and you still gotta add your power. This same property makes it a little "better" for touch shots on soft balls, like a short receive. A lot of the stuff in between is more difficult to do than a conventional thinner topsheet modern rubber (which is a lot more forgiving on those in between strokes) so not everyone has a glowing report over XP 2008 Super Power.

I often gave this rubber away to my clubmates in Korea and at first they all like the price, next to nothing and they block a speedy fast drive very well, but the Div 5 and Div 4 crowd doesn't have a big impact on the medium shots and found it was harder to control than their thinner topsheet modern rubbers and took XP 2008 after a week. Coach tried to warn them they do not have the impact for it, but what the heck, it was a different rubber and costs less than a 1/2 a serving of chicken and beer.

 

[Der_Echte]

i just got xp 2008 for $4 from someone,brand new.should have taken more,as you really praise that rubber.

Read my post above.

Not everyone who uses XP 2008 becomes a Guitar hero.

It is just that for the money, there isn't a rubber to compare it too.

The control is superb on slow touch shots, strong impact fast topspin attacks, and any stroke where you got a good impact forward. That sums up my BH play, so it is controllable to me.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

By the way, Der_Echte, my friend Matt, the Korean penholder with the nice RPB, who we ran into at the Korean club in Flushing, he said to me: "You have to keep it away from his backhand, it is just too good!" About you in between one of the games when you were playing a match against him. Hahaha.


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[mahomedy13]

Read my post above.

Not everyone who uses XP 2008 becomes a Guitar hero.

It is just that for the money, there isn't a rubber to compare it too.

The control is superb on slow touch shots, strong impact fast topspin attacks, and any stroke where you got a good impact forward. That sums up my BH play, so it is controllable to me.

Ill give it a try and report back.
I hope i like it.if not,a club members lucky day it will be.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Is XP 2008 great rubber? NO. But it is pretty decent and it is GREAT for the price. And you can do everything you can do with your backhand with that rubber and do it pretty well.


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[Der_Echte]

We all talk about how this aspect of blade does THIS to our game and IF a blade is made with THIS thin layer of THIS wood, how it will affect feel and dwell, etc...

We talk about all these technical aspects of a blade, we also talk about the sponge type, hardness, thickness, the kind of tacky or grippy topsheet...

But what we don't really talk about is the THICKNESS and ELASTICITY of the topsheet. Those two factors REALLY have a big say in how the rubber performs.

We do SOMETIMES talk about how this rubber works great on this blade, but it is often general things.

Carl brought up a good point about the H3 rubber and it made my think WHY it feels so hard.

Take for example regular Aurus that I use on almost every blade I test. That sponge is rated as VERY hard, but the overall feel of the rubber is medium, sometimes even a little medium soft !!! WHY ?? It is in the topsheet. When you glue on a new sheet of Aurus, feel the cutout. The topsheet on a new sheet of Aurus is like a supple Italian leather. It also works well with the sponge and it is an outstanding thing. Vibration type and the ability of the topsheet to be dynamic and elastic also affect the result.

 

[Der_Echte]

By the way, Der_Echte, my friend Matt, the Korean penholder with the nice RPB, who we ran into at the Korean club in Flushing, he said to me: "You have to keep it away from his backhand, it is just too good!" About you in between one of the games when you were playing a match against him. Hahaha.


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Players who have a strong playing level with a very solid allround game tend to say that about me. These kind of good and sound allround attacking players do not need to risk everything for a finishing FH, so they take more shots and bid their time. They are not accustomed to players at their level, or even a level or two above them to take over the point on their BH wing. They tend to play the percentages on placement and can rally very well consistently more than others, so they do not feel under pressure and their defense is usually pretty good too.

This kind of player will have no problem sending a lot of balls to someone's middle BH, they even want them to be attacked since they counter and play defense well. Usually, for this player, an underspin to the BH (if the opponent doesn't see it and do a step around strong FH shot) will get back a not so strong topspin or even a push. The allround attacking player can deal with either ball well. My BH opener on a long underspin carries considerable spin and if the ball is near net height, if I decide to fast loop it, I can really rip it good. Usually a short underspin serve to the BH is safe enough, but I can flip those with spin, knuckle, or speed when I am confident.

These allround players do not see anyone near their level play like that. My BH doesn't really have much of a backswing, so it can be hard to read it by my arm. I can also bang bang drive rally close to the table at high speed at least 50/50 with them and that also makes the allround attacker uncomfortable. Once I get a few balls to my FH I like, it can be a little disheartening to this kind of player. Matt is a Soldier and doesn't give up. What I don't have is that nice off the bounce re-loop on BH wing Carl has learned to time so well. All I can do to such a ball to my BH is punch it and that works well enough most of the time if I place it at the opponent's playing elbow.

I cant remember the result of my match vs Matt, but I must have made a favorable impression on him.

What I do remember is cleaning house playing doubles with Carl showing the decisive courage to AND make a very high percentage of attacks vs long underspin returns from my serves where I wasn't trying to win the point on the serve. This sound like it should be something naturally expected out of an attacking player, but you will be surprised at the number of players well above average level who chicken out on the easy attacking chances and give opponents an easy attacking chance. That always burns me and my Korean friends hated on me when I give them the "Look" and "Growl" when they give away points too easy like that. Carl also got a few pop-ups to go ballistic on and I remember him giving me enough attacking chances to keep me happy. I wanted to setup some dinner bet matches, but there were not any takers that night.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hahaha. You sure did set me up beautifully when you were serving in those doubles matches. Time after time William served and our opponent gave a long push that I could just loop with heavy spin. If my opening came back, it was an easy ball for William to end the point on. I don't think I have ever been set up so nicely over and over again in doubles. Hahaha.

Technique over equipment.

A simple setup is good enough. I recently switched from using a Butterfly Timo Boll ZLF with Tenergy 05 & 64 on it to a very simple all wood blade (OSP Virtuoso Off-) with good feeling and these all new Victas V>1 rubbers that were designed for the plastic ball. The setup is very simple and great for my game.

By the way, that rubber has a fairly firm sponge and a soft topsheet too. So, even if EJs don't talk about the qualities of a topsheet, the TT equipment manufacturers know how to get a good topsheet sponge combo.


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[Der_Echte]

haha, that was a big IF.

I could have simply served, and walked to bench to check text messages and we would have won the point 9 out of 10 times I got a long underspin for Carl.

Trouble is, I like to win points on serves in doubles directly, so Carl only got the chance to attack when I was in the mood for watching a heavy opener from Carl. Yet the more the matches went on, the more I said the heck with it and fed Carl's FH. (No shyt Sherlock, he was already parked in the BH corner in a FH open stance... it was doubles hehe)

 

[Der_Echte]

That sounded so good I might buy it as bh for my extra (Galaxy-W6) racket to test it, lol.

I have bought several W-6 over the years and liked them all, I just prefer more top end and middle range pace than the W-6 offers. If you are a player who likes to stand at the table and loop over and over (it even is very good at hard counter-hits close to the table like many ALL+ or OFF- wooden blades) then this is a blade you like.

There are better rubbers for W-6 than XP 2008, but you know what you are getting and $8 USD for a depenable control rubber is outrageous. Softer rubber seems to fit this blade well, so whatever soft versin of a rubber series you like ought to suit it well.

The reason I like Aurus and XP 2008 as my default rubbers when I test a blade is that they both function well enough on any blade and I know what I am getting so I can discover what I do not know about a blade I am testing.

I put XP 2008 on the Allround Evolution I bought. I worked out, but it wasn't in the class of Omega IV that Carl had on his Allround Evolution. Now that I have seriously beefed up that blade like frankenstein to even include that ugly boly he had sticking out hiz neck, XP 2008 o that blade plays a ton better now.

XP 2008 isn't the rubber that will cure the ebola govt scare, but it is consistent and stable for me, suprising in the face of Dawei and other Chinese company having problems producing a consistent hardness for their sponges batch to batch. This is rated 40 degress, mid firm. It will like other rubbers break in to soften a little moar. XP 2008 on BH lasts around 2x the time my FH rubber lasts.

 

[chiz]

I have bought several W-6 over the years and liked them all, I just prefer more top end and middle range pace than the W-6 offers. If you are a player who likes to stand at the table and loop over and over (it even is very good at hard counter-hits close to the table like many ALL+ or OFF- wooden blades) then this is a blade you like.

There are better rubbers for W-6 than XP 2008, but you know what you are getting and $8 USD for a depenable control rubber is outrageous. Softer rubber seems to fit this blade well, so whatever soft versin of a rubber series you like ought to suit it well.

The reason I like Aurus and XP 2008 as my default rubbers when I test a blade is that they both function well enough on any blade and I know what I am getting so I can discover what I do not know about a blade I am testin


XP 2008 isn't the rubber that will cure the ebola govt scare, but it is consistent and stable for me, suprising in the face of Dawei and other Chinese company having problems producing a consistent hardness for their sponges batch to batch. This is rated 40 degress, mid firm. It will like other rubbers break in to soften a little moar. XP 2008 on BH lasts around 2x the time my.

What if I like to loop away(1-2m) from the table? W6 still good?

 

[Der_Echte]

chiz, not enough pace for me, spin is there, but at that distance, you want more pace to go with the spin. Not saying it is mission impossible, but there are many better from there.

 

[Der_Echte]

The advantage of a bat paired to a good rubber that makes a high degree of spin at a medium pace is you can play closer to the table and still land your shots. The slower blade counter hits better and if you want can off the bounce loop better with more feel. The time pressure you exert there parked closer to the table is better than trying to step back 2 meters and duke it out. That stuff looks good in practice and visually it is great, but at that distance everyone can see the ball and get to it to make their play, only the players who make a few of those shots to setup a better angle for pressure win or they get lucky with opponents' errors.

Besides, you get better angles closer to the table anyway.

 

[Der_Echte]

The 896 with my mod and the right FH rubber plays stronger from distance than the same rubber on the W-6.

 

[chiz]

chiz, not enough pace for me, spin is there, but at that distance, you want more pace to go with the spin. Not saying it is mission impossible, but there are many better from there.

What is 'pace'? So W6 is no go for playing away from table? 896 is better? What about stiga allround evolution?

 

[anchorschmidt]

Just a bit of friendly advice, you are over-thinking this. I can relate to you as I thought a lot about equipment when getting my current bat and surprise surprise, I didn't like it at first because it was different from my previous bat:

1. It felt too light for me.
2. The FH rubber seemed too bouncy and terrible for generating spin on serves because of the complete absence of tackiness.
3. The grip felt strange.

So I regretted my purchase the day I got it and my mind was already churning with getting Stiga Clipper instead of my current blade because it's supposed to be heavier or trying out a tackier FH rubber like the H3N and guess what happened after 3 weeks? I started playing better than I had ever played before. My touch got better so I could generate good spin even with the non-tacky rubber on serves. I got used to the grip and now my older racket feels strange and slightly heavy. I fixed a few kinks in my FH technique and then I had a better forehand than I had ever had, with even more spin. 2 months after getting my racket, I don't have any regrets at all.

In short: Whatever you pick will feel weird once you play with it at first but you will get used to it and as long as it is a capable piece of equipment (like the ones that all of us have suggested), you won't have any problems. I agree with the others that H3N is not an ideal starting rubber but basically everything that has been suggested to you is good.

 

[mahomedy13]

Just a bit of friendly advice, you are over-thinking this. I can relate to you as I thought a lot about equipment when getting my current bat and surprise surprise, I didn't like it at first because it was different from my previous bat:

1. It felt too light for me.
2. The FH rubber seemed too bouncy and terrible for generating spin on serves because of the complete absence of tackiness.
3. The grip felt strange.

So I regretted my purchase the day I got it and my mind was already churning with getting Stiga Clipper instead of my current blade because it's supposed to be heavier or trying out a tackier FH rubber like the H3N and guess what happened after 3 weeks? I started playing better than I had ever played before. My touch got better so I could generate good spin even with the non-tacky rubber on serves. I got used to the grip and now my older racket feels strange and slightly heavy. I fixed a few kinks in my FH technique and then I had a better forehand than I had ever had, with even more spin. 2 months after getting my racket, I don't have any regrets at all.

In short: Whatever you pick will feel weird once you play with it at first but you will get used to it and as long as it is a capable piece of equipment (like the ones that all of us have suggested), you won't have any problems. I agree with the others that H3N is not an ideal starting rubber but basically everything that has been suggested to you is good.

This is excellent advise.

 

[chiz]

Galaxy Moon is splendid for looping, budget wise I would keep it, but would swap the HN3, it's possible to loop, but would not recommend it as a rubber for that.
and "at least 50 hours" Any rubber that lasts longer then average would last that long. Which is more or less all of those. Appart from maybe Palio Amigo, which is maybe (probably) the slowest out of those rubbers aswell, it has a rather low throw angle, and it's durability is worse then all the others (on "average"). So I would count it out if I were you.


Also, concerning blades totally up to you which of them, but IF you were to choose Stiga, I would (again) highly recommend choosing Evolution and not Classic.
And concerning the dawei I could allso just find 2.0, 2,1 and 2,2 mm thickness on ebay, found 1,5mm one place, but that's a bit too thin I believe?
I think 2mm would do fine? It's not the fastest rubber afterall.

If I were you, I'd use the galaxy moon for the bh. and find a nice fh rubber and blade out of the remaining. Donic Baracuda or Tibhar Aurus allso seems like a good choice. Though if you're afraid it's too high tech, Mark v is a rubber you can't go wrong with. That's a promise.
http://www.tabletennisdb.com/database/popular-rubber.html -> Mark v= Second most popular rubber on the page after Tenergy 05. (Tenergy 05 is the worst budget wise btw) Sriver would allso be a good pick, but mark v is rated to last a bit longer, and trow angle on mark v is a litle higher, aswell as a bit more spinny (0,2+), so I would go with mark v. (I only tried mark v out of the two though xp)
Budget wise, Dawei 2008 XP is ofc the best.

- And, I recomend you to move your mouse over the question marks on the ratings on tabletennisdb.
That way you'l get an understanding of what it's actually rating. (in case you're unsure on some of them) Grip = Spin. Tacky is different as mentioned before.
You know a bit about how Galaxy moon feels I asume? (asuming you used it on the T-11, on a different blade it would ofcourse feel diferent, and a bit slower, but you have a certain idea of how it would feel I asume)
so why don't you try compare it http://www.tabletennisdb.com/rubber/yinhe-galaxy-moon.html to the others?

I felt that the Galaxy Moon was very hard, maybe as hard as HN3. It was like a dead sponge to me.

 

[Kaizoku]

I felt that the Galaxy Moon was very hard, maybe as hard as HN3. It was like a dead sponge to me.

Honestly I have not tried it, but the reviews indicates it's loopable. Sure it did not feel that way because of the blade? A stiff fast carbon blade would make the rubber feel harder too..

 

[chiz]

Just a bit of friendly advice, you are over-thinking this. I can relate to you as I thought a lot about equipment when getting my current bat and surprise surprise, I didn't like it at first because it was different from my previous bat:

1. It felt too light for me.
2. The FH rubber seemed too bouncy and terrible for generating spin on serves because of the complete absence of tackiness.
3. The grip felt strange.

So I regretted my purchase the day I got it and my mind was already churning with getting Stiga Clipper instead of my current blade because it's supposed to be heavier or trying out a tackier FH rubber like the H3N and guess what happened after 3 weeks? I started playing better than I had ever played before. My touch got better so I could generate good spin even with the non-tacky rubber on serves. I got used to the grip and now my older racket feels strange and slightly heavy. I fixed a few kinks in my FH technique and then I had a better forehand than I had ever had, with even more spin. 2 months after getting my racket, I don't have any regrets at all.

In short: Whatever you pick will feel weird once you play with it at first but you will get used to it and as long as it is a capable piece of equipment (like the ones that all of us have suggested), you won't have any problems. I agree with the others that H3N is not an ideal starting rubber but basically everything that has been suggested to you is good.

After 6 month after getting my custom bat I'm still regretting it
Admittedly I was a complete noob and went for everything max degree. I think that's where I went wrong.