How low is your stance (for loops etc)

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Hi! As a tall guy (~6'5") I'm trying to stay low when playing. However I'm wondering how low do I have to be? I was watching Falck and Samsonov and while those guys are in an athletic stance staying low (roughly where their hips are at the table height level), a guy in a club yesterday was telling me I need to go even lower. I tried it and it seemed a bit excessive + it was super hard to stay that low and perform strokes (there my head was roughly at the net level). Curious what you guys think :)
 
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Your stance height can be changed depending on incoming ball. If the ball is high , it's stupid to get absurdly low and you can't make a high-quality shot when you meet a low ball while standing upright.
Basic stance should be the height when it doesn't slow down your footwork. If you NEED to get lower you can put your feet wider like Timo Boll. But I think it is more important that your weight is in front on your toes.
 
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Vladimir anca is quite tall and plays in Germany. You might try to mirror his stance
Yeah so his hips are roughly in line with the table as I thought.

Your stance height can be changed depending on incoming ball. If the ball is high , it's stupid to get absurdly low and you can't make a high-quality shot when you meet a low ball while standing upright.
Basic stance should be the height when it doesn't slow down your footwork. If you NEED to get lower you can put your feet wider like Timo Boll. But I think it is more important that your weight is in front on your toes.
Makes sense!
 
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I also compensate for the lower stance with my blade angle. I do try to get low, but I also know that I cannot compete with pro's. Also, it is very difficult to keep a low stance throughout. Hence, a better option is to try to be low but find a balance which you can carry on in the rally and compensate with your blade angle for the deficit.
 
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Imagine that FZD who is not very tall, when simple FH to FH looping, his right knee angle is almost 90 degrees.

If we (I'm 6'5 too) do this, we are still higher than him ;-)

I'm not saying we must look exactly as pros, or that we should go even lower than him to be as low vs table, I'm more trying to say that there is certain naturalness in the mechanics of the pros, and we could try to copy that... Actually derive the form from it, so that it feels natural/relaxed...

Also, I actually don't focus on being low, but rather on being wide, meaning wide-ness first, low-ness second, it comes from it ;-) Cheers.
 
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Imagine that FZD who is not very tall, when simple FH to FH looping, his right knee angle is almost 90 degrees.

If we (I'm 6'5 too) do this, we are still higher than him ;-)

I'm not saying we must look exactly as pros, or that we should go even lower than him to be as low vs table, I'm more trying to say that there is certain naturalness in the mechanics of the pros, and we could try to copy that... Actually derive the form from it, so that it feels natural/relaxed...

Also, I actually don't focus on being low, but rather on being wide, meaning wide-ness first, low-ness second, it comes from it ;-) Cheers.
That makes sense, focus on wideness first :)
 
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Going low is not all about bending at the knees but really more at the hips. Too much knee bending actually makes you slower. The knee bend actually doesnt lower your centre of gravity by much.
 
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Keep the eyes as close to net height as possible. Else you can’t judge ball height and trajectory well. One basic principle is to play at or near the top of the bounce. If your eyes are too high how well can you see where that happens ?

As a rule, for us amateur we are always not low enough. Furthermore we always think we are lower than we really are. Just film yourself you will be surprised how high you are

I also agree with @blahness it’s difficult to lower the upper body because it’s about core muscles (and I’m quite weak there)
 
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Going low is not all about bending at the knees but really more at the hips. Too much knee bending actually makes you slower. The knee bend actually doesnt lower your centre of gravity by much.

yeah i agree that its all about the core

i dont have weak knees but i find it hard to stay low for a long period of time if i only deliberately bend my knees to get low
 
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Keep the eyes as close to net height as possible. Else you can’t judge ball height and trajectory well. One basic principle is to play at or near the top of the bounce. If your eyes are too high how well can you see where that happens ?

As a rule, for us amateur we are always not low enough. Furthermore we always think we are lower than we really are. Just film yourself you will be surprised how high you are

I also agree with @blahness it’s difficult to lower the upper body because it’s about core muscles (and I’m quite weak there)
Yes, i see some adult players trying to do like 90 deg knee bends, it doesnt work because they are not Fan Zhendong or Zhang Jike with massive quads. Much easier to bend forward at the hips which is what most pro players do anyway. You only really need something like 20 deg knee bend for the most part and taller players just have to widen their stance to lower their centre of gravity.

Agree that core strength is a must and that is where pallof presses and ab wheels can create magic.
 
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Going low is not all about bending at the knees but really more at the hips. Too much knee bending actually makes you slower. The knee bend actually doesnt lower your centre of gravity by much.
100%. I used to bend too much at the knees and it was a terrible idea. Footwork becomes slower and robs you of power in shots.

For explosive movements, it's better to load and then release energy in a short a time frame as possible. When people want to jump high, they aren't going down to full squat first. At most you do maybe a quater squat before jumping.

People always recommend keeping a low center of gravity but they never actually explain why it would be beneficial to have a low center of gravity at all times. There are a few obvious advantages. One is that shots are easier to judge at eye level. Another is that getting your whole upper body structure closer to the point of contact gives you a lot more control (not sure how much of that is merely from better vision or total proprioception). But staying low at all times seems like a bad idea from a footwork and power perspective.

I posted a video about the explosive "first step" and it argues that you gain speed by 'falling' towards the direction you want to travel. So you would need to have a higher stance to start with so that the potential energy can be used for movement.

This is obvious when observing fast players are on serve receive. They might set up low to get their eyes to net level, but they all end up standing up pretty straight when the serve actually happens, then drop back low again depending on what shot they play (e.g., going forward for a push/flick, or loading a FH/BH etc).

Staying low the entire time would really hinder your movement since you don't can't borrow any momentum from gravity or stored elastic energy in youry body (good article about it here: https://protabletennis.net/content/elastic-energy-stroke-play). It's also too tiring for your legs since you'd basically be playing a game while in the horse stance.

So it's not about keeping a low center of gravity, but about starting from a balanced posture that lets you 'fall' towards whatever position you need to get to and/or store that power for your stroke. For a big FH, you fall towards a position that loads your right leg and hips, and then you release that power into the ball by pushing off the leg and rotating the hips. For a short push, you start high, fall forward for the touch and load the front leg, and then push off that leg to bounce back to a higher balanced posture again to be ready for the next shot.

This is probably the reason why 'adding' an additional recovery step seems to make people faster. For one, in the recovered position you now can use gravity to quicken your next move. But I suspect the major issue that if you don't do the recovery step, it means your momentum is often directed in the wrong direction in relation to next move you want make.

The "first step" and the storing of elastic energy concepts really helped round out my understanding of why the recovery step was a good idea. But the principles pretty much apply in every situation where you're moving your body around in space.
 
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Hi! As a tall guy (~6'5") I'm trying to stay low when playing. However I'm wondering how low do I have to be? I was watching Falck and Samsonov and while those guys are in an athletic stance staying low (roughly where their hips are at the table height level), a guy in a club yesterday was telling me I need to go even lower. I tried it and it seemed a bit excessive + it was super hard to stay that low and perform strokes (there my head was roughly at the net level). Curious what you guys think :)
As a 6'2 person, I also struggle with bending myself lower. Naturally, I have always tried to bend for each shot but my coach has been re-training me to rather:
- Keep legs wider.
- Interact with the ball at its highest level.
- Track the ball rather than look at the table/opponent.

These 3 things might theoretically help with having the same impact but having to bend less. Can't say I am successful at that LOL--the inner voice is telling me to make 3 steps away from the table, bend, play with a bigger pause, and then be completely exhausted by the end of a game :D
Can't imagine how 6'5 folks struggle.
 
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As a 6'2 person, I also struggle with bending myself lower. Naturally, I have always tried to bend for each shot but my coach has been re-training me to rather:
- Keep legs wider.
- Interact with the ball at its highest level.
- Track the ball rather than look at the table/opponent.

These 3 things might theoretically help with having the same impact but having to bend less. Can't say I am successful at that LOL--the inner voice is telling me to make 3 steps away from the table, bend, play with a bigger pause, and then be completely exhausted by the end of a game :D
Can't imagine how 6'5 folks struggle.
It is a struggle haha But I do think 20ish degree angle with hip backwards is easier then what I was trying to do in my last training session :D I've practiced a bit at home (just paddle and myself no table) and it does feel better.

What do you mean by track the ball rather then the oponent? (I recently created a thread about do you watch the ball or the oponent haha)
 
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It is a struggle haha But I do think 20ish degree angle with hip backwards is easier then what I was trying to do in my last training session :D I've practiced a bit at home (just paddle and myself no table) and it does feel better.

What do you mean by track the ball rather then the oponent? (I recently created a thread about do you watch the ball or the oponent haha)
Well, maybe it's my problem but whenever I hit a ball, I begin staring at its trajectory, placement, and the opponent on the other side of the table.
This habit impedes my ability to track the ball and hit it at its highest point after it returns to me. Which in turn makes me pass the ball further/lower, thus having to bend to lift it with topspin.

I don't see bending as a problem--but good players try to make me play near the table, and bending surely breaks the rhythm in that scenario.
 
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