How to prevent this fiddly and sloppy FH as seen in the video?

[bzing]

Watch the entire video. Especially moments like take a look at 1:57. His FH fails to produce enough power to drive the ball forward and either misses the ball or goes into the net. That happens when the opponent (in this case Dmitrij Ovtcharov) gives him a very spinny ball, which Steger is just unable to counter-loop it unless Dima is blocking the ball. If it was Jun Mizutani playing against Dimitrij Ovtcharov I'm certain that it would be totally different where Jun Mizutani would have no problem counter-looping those spinny balls back on the table...

And I have exactly the same problem what Bastian Steger has. When I try to loop FH, it's usually very spinny but very little forward momentum. Since for some time now I have been trying to solve this problem. What stance to apply to this to prevent it. If you were to exactly assess his FH stroke, is it possible for you to pinpoint in exactly what key areas he makes these errors?

Anyone with high coaching knowledge with deep analysis and not just some amateur feedback would be helpful.

 

[Shuki]

I'd love to see a video of YOUR loop to diagnose the problem for you. But in this video at the 1:57 point that you marked, he's not counter looping, he's more blocking and it going into the net.

 

[dio_hgw]

The problem is Steger's footwork at this specific match at least. Ovtcharov accurately targets the body of Steger most of the time and Steger's problematic footwork leads him to play soft easy shots. Ovtcharov's accuracy itself is a result of him being a better server and receiver.
What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of reasons why we play poor shots. Work your FH with regular drills, but at the same time work on your serve, your receive and your footwork. Even if you have the best FH loop of all times, it's no use if you can not set to play it.

 

[bzing]

No, at 2:10 you can clearly see he does try to counterloop it but fails at it and misses twice in two points and is not targeted in his body. At 1:57 he just lacked the power to react fast enough but does not mean he didn't try to attempt it like at 2:10.

This is exactly what happens when I try to loop those spinny balls I lack the momentum to counterloop the ball back on the table just like Bastian has.

If Jun Mizutani would have absolutely no problem with looping those balls that Bastian Steger has problem with, then clearly he's doing something wrong with his footwork and body rotation etc... It's a shame there aren't here anyone qualified enough to give a detailed enough feedback on exactly what key areas needs to be focused on when executing this stroke instead of just saying "just keep working on your FH drills".

 

[Ilia Minkin]

Bastian Steger is a professional table tennis player, who is 35 year old and who won an Olympic bronze medal in a team event. I guess that if you can give "a detailed feedback on how can he improve his FH", you can apply for a coach position in German national team.

 

[NextLevel]

No, at 2:10 you can clearly see he does try to counterloop it but fails at it and misses twice in two points and is not targeted in his body. At 1:57 he just lacked the power to react fast enough but does not mean he didn't try to attempt it like at 2:10.

This is exactly what happens when I try to loop those spinny balls I lack the momentum to counterloop the ball back on the table just like Bastian has.

If Jun Mizutani would have absolutely no problem with looping those balls that Bastian Steger has problem with, then clearly he's doing something wrong with his footwork and body rotation etc... It's a shame there aren't here anyone qualified enough to give a detailed enough feedback on exactly what key areas needs to be focused on when executing this stroke instead of just saying "just keep working on your FH drills".

One qualified coach I know will simply tell you that if you want proper feedback, you have to post video. I tried to relate your post to the video but failed to find evidence of what you were describing. And of course, whether Steger's issues are related to yours is another thing altogether.

 

[izra]

if by 2:10 you actually mean 2:15, i would say steger's backswing is too big. he is outclassed in this match so he is trying too hard to anticipate the ball and hit it too hard and too soon. yes, a big backswing can lead to less power because it causes timing issues. if this is your problem try swinging with your body and not with your upper arm.

a swing from the shoulder (upper arm) is fast but slow to change direction. this means it is easy to get the hand too far behind your back but hard to get it back into the place where you want to be contacting the ball.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yeah, in that match Steger is severely overmatched. He is continually thrown off and thinking Dima is going to one spot when Dima is going somewhere else.

On that sequence where Steger whiffs on two successive FH shots (starts at around 2:15), he is not there. He was on the BH side and he is still moving his feet and has not yet reached the spot when he has to swing.

At the time when this match was played, Dima was just playing at a significantly higher level than Steger. And through the entire match Steger looks off balance because he is not reading Dima's misdirection well at all.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[bzing]

Regardless, Juz Mizutani, as proven in the next match simply counter-loops any of these balls that Bastian Steger has received in his match against Dima. And All I'm saying is, I have exactly the same problem of not contacting the ball enough and thus either missing the ball or going into the net. At 1:57 he did try to loop it with smaller backswing and it didn't work either, you can try to say he was blocking but no he did actually try to loop the ball with his body.

 

[izra]

At 1:57 he did try to loop it with smaller backswing and it didn't work either, you can try to say he was blocking but no he did actually try to loop the ball with his body.

no man. just no.

 

[NextLevel]

Regardless, Juz Mizutani, as proven in the next match simply counter-loops any of these balls that Bastian Steger has received in his match against Dima. And All I'm saying is, I have exactly the same problem of not contacting the ball enough and thus either missing the ball or going into the net. At 1:57 he did try to loop it with smaller backswing and it didn't work either, you can try to say he was blocking but no he did actually try to loop the ball with his body.

So the World #7 plays the world #5 (who he has a superior head to head score vs) better than the World #35 plays the world #5 and you think it is technical as opposed to being about the relative levels?

Again, you don't have the same problem as a World Class player playing an even stronger World Class player. You just don't, unless you are simply playing better players who are outclassing you consistently, which means you have a superficially similar problem at a lower level. Even with proper technique, lower rated players can still be overwhelmed by higher levels of spin and speed from their higher rated opponents. Even reading an opponent is a chore in itself, and it is hard to know where higher rated players are going to play the ball before they hit it. Once you understand that, then it will be easier to address your problem if you really want to address it.

 

[bzing]

There are 1000 ways in table tennis to beat an opponent, and this is where Bastian Steger has multiple ways in winning over weaker players, even if it was just for his backhand which is really good or lobbing up the ball from the back.

That does not mean he doesn't have any issues with his FH at all. The mistakes with executing FH are still common even with professional players not just Bastian Steger but players like Robert Gardos also known for not swinging the body and arm more forward but rather they moving their arm in an upward position.

And this is exactly why Robert Gardos missed the last ball when it was 10-11 here at 2:05. You can clearly see his arm swing is too upward compared to the japanese player who swings more forward. This proves that yes this common mistake does happen at the high level of table tennis as well. All of Robert Gardos forehands after the third game are all wrongly executed as well.

You'd have to be really ignorant if you don't see that Robert Gardos and Bastian Steger don't have any issue with their FH stroke at all. Even top players can have common errors especially that Bastian Steger and Robert Gardos do not come from the same coaching era as say the younger european generation players like Anton Kallberg or Kristian Karlsson who have clearly a well developed FH stroke unlike Bastian Steger or Robert Gardos. And yes I repeat it's proven that these FH mistakes are common in table tennis players REGARDLESS whether they are professional or amateur.

 

[anchorschmidt]

Yeah, ok, even World Class players have issues with their technique. But their problems are on a different level than happy amateurs like us. In the case of World Class players, they make errors or play a sloppy technique because they weren't able to get to the ball in the time that they had, perhaps read the spin wrong, timed the stroke wrong, played a higher-risk shot, were tired or were under mental pressure.

Anyway, there are probably less than 20 players who ever lived that had a "complete" technique. By complete, I don't mean necessarily mastering all of the strokes of the game but complete as in not having an obvious technical deficiency that could be exploited again and again. Even a great player like Xu Xin can be quietened by relentlessly exploiting his backhand side. However such players can have amazing strengths that can help them win against more complete players. In Xu Xin's case, his forehand, footwork and service-game makes him a favourite against more complete players like Timo Boll or Jun Mizutani.

IMO, it would be a lot easier if you leave this argument behind and just record videos of yourself playing. In my experience, TTD members don't make fun of people who post videos of themselves and mostly give constructive criticism.

In many cases, we diagnose our own problems wrongly. It would be much easier to get to the heart of the problem by watching you play instead of thinking of how we can relate Bastian Steger's problems or Gardos's problems to yours.

 

[NextLevel]

I think it is clear that OP is trolling and is pushing his leash on charitable interpretation to its limits.

 

[bobpuls]

1.57 he just hit the edge of rubber.

 

[SpinQuark]

Bastion Steger does indeed seem to have a problem. His mum has made him wear shorts that she made by cutting his long trousers at the knee. Hellfire even my shorts are not quite that long and I am 20 years older.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Why don't we see more of the Matsudairas on the world stage? They're so fun to watch and are just freaking good. Love seeing Kenta go toe to toe with the best in the world!

 

[SpinQuark]

Yes and great serve at 2:37