How to stop 3rd ball loop attack?

_ak

This user has no status.

_ak

This user has no status.
Member
Aug 2023
386
233
779
I feel you. It may be easier in doubles when placement is more predictable and I could flick them more or less consistently.

At lower levels good servers quite often are 1-2 tricks ponies and crack when it doesn't work any more.

I'd try to watch his games with others.
 
Last edited:
says Pimples Schmimples
says Pimples Schmimples
Well-Known Member
Sep 2022
1,019
1,064
4,021
No, I felt I had more overall complete game in every department, apart from the service situation. I could never get comfortable with the serve situation.

After being down 0-2 in games, I came all the way back and lead 8-5 in the 5th game. But then the serves got to me again and I lost.

In terms of technical ability, I felt better. But he was beating me tactically very badly. Also, I didn't even mention this: but he is a penhold player and has LP on his BH. Sometimes he will twiddle and use his LP just to confuse me and make awkward balls. This wasn't actually the main deciding point though. The deciding factor was the very difficult serve, and the relentless 3rd ball attack.
Ok, LP and twiddling throw in for good measure 😂
He'd have beaten me by more I imagine, thats a very tricky combination, you did well.
Will you play him again soon to try out any of the advice you've been given?
Be interesting to hear how the next game goes
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Oct 2022
4,955
2,472
7,798
Ok, LP and twiddling throw in for good measure 😂
He'd have beaten me by more I imagine, thats a very tricky combination, you did well.
Will you play him again soon to try out any of the advice you've been given?
Be interesting to hear how the next game goes
I might see him tonight if he shows up. I'm still not really sure what advice to go for.

But maybe the most manageable advice is just to try to push hard and long and just hope to out-rally him.
 
This user has no status.
Firstly, his serve is very hard to chiquita for me. It's very low and fast and spinny. And especially when it has underspin on it, it's just not practical.

Second, whenever I did for for the flick, he just did the same. He was just waiting there for the 3rd ball and killed it the same.
You can chiquita/BH loop everything easily including the heaviest underspin - it is all about knowing how to use the closed to open blade angle change to your advantage, using a small stroke and using the body well. I cant imagine he can 3rd ball a fast, wide angle heavy sidespin ball that curves wickedly into him. If he pivots too early you can loop a softer one to his FH and he will be toast. Either your placement is not good enough or the chiquita quality is way too low.

My practice partner is also a LP/inverted penholder and yeah the very good serves + FH 3rd ball attack is his speciality. If you push against him you'll be minced meat because there is just way too much he can do with a slow ball. Chiquita play really kills the FH pendulum serve because you can borrow the sidespin from the serve (going with the spin), and the sidespin makes it very hard for them to pivot due to the increased angle.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
May 2022
147
208
377
Yeah I've never learned this technique before, and I've never even heard of it before. Do you have a video to show and explain it? But it sounds like with 1) you just mean you are pushing slightly down but also to the left?

To be honest, I can't imagine how this would help against this player. As soon as I push, he will just loop the 3rd ball.

Yang Xiaoxin explains the concept here. Essentially, depending on whether you go with or against the spin will change the depth of the return.

 
  • Like
Reactions: blahness
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Jun 2022
581
498
1,487
chiquita here, fast push there ... there should be no beating around the bush that the mindset "my opponent may not attack" is not macking you progress, because it is a feeble attempt at best.

Even with the strongest underspin generated there will be players (in germany probably players with a TTR of 1500 and upwards) that will loop it anyways and then you get a highly spinny ball to cope with.

I also thought i could cheat my way in beating loopers by simply applying great underspin with pushes done with low catapult sticky rubbers, but this is simply not the way to improve. A good enough opponent will adjust to the high amount of underspin and then loop it.

In fact varying the amount of underspin is surely more successful in making the looper be more hesitant when looping, because a nearly empty ball can not be looped with the same technique as the heavy backspin ball is supposed to be looped and hence the ball will go out of play.

Right now i encourage my opponents to loop diagonally by pushing with medium spin to the forehand / wide forehand. This makes it highly probably that the will go cross court. After the push i jump back a bit and anticipate and wait for a ball that i can counter loop with a short motion. Let's be honest, i just started doing this 2 month ago but the success ratio is ok. It's about 60%, which means either i overloop and the ball goes out or it is a direct winner, because the looping opponent has not recovered in time when i counterloop down the line.

Take the challenge to counter loop instead of shying away from it.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Jun 2022
581
498
1,487
Yang Xiaoxin explains the concept here. Essentially, depending on whether you go with or against the spin will change the depth of the return.

the description of against and with the spin might be correct in this video, but i find it a little amusing that she demonstrates it using a long pimple rubber to receive :p
 
  • Haha
Reactions: blahness
push long and get into rally. nothing you can do about a serve that is wicked.
I actually agree with Jesus on this one.

Push long with heavy backspin. If your backspin is heavy, the other player has no choice but to loop "upward" so the opening loop should be slow. Then you can get into a rally with him.

I noticed in your video that you do not push with heavy backspin but I could be mistaken.

Many adult players who started playing in the plastic ball era do not push with heavy backspin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TensorBackhand
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Apr 2013
622
433
1,245
Read 1 reviews
Yeah I've never learned this technique before, and I've never even heard of it before. Do you have a video to show and explain it? But it sounds like with 1) you just mean you are pushing slightly down but also to the left?

To be honest, I can't imagine how this would help against this player. As soon as I push, he will just loop the 3rd ball.
Im not talking about pushing, Im talking about attacking it here. Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

Also like I mentioned in my first post, you should get away from your current mindset of trying to receive to stop the opponent from attacking the 3rd ball. At some point you will reach a level where you can't dismantel the opponents attack by receiving in a specific way. You have to think further ahead, kind of like a chess game. You have to consider all the moves your opponent can possibly make on different receives, and then pick the recieve that 'lures' him into the move you expect him to make and be able to deal with it.

But in my honest opinion, this thread could go on forever with all members here giving you different options on how to handle this problem, and you turning down every one of them. But what would work best is to record a match against this opponent so we can actually see whats going on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jk1980
says Pimples Schmimples
says Pimples Schmimples
Well-Known Member
Sep 2022
1,019
1,064
4,021
I might see him tonight if he shows up. I'm still not really sure what advice to go for.

But maybe the most manageable advice is just to try to push hard and long and just hope to out-rally him.
Well the Chiquita and BH loop are probably your best options. If it's not competition then it's just training matches right, so it's a great environment to practice these shots.
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
Well-Known Member
Jan 2018
9,323
10,799
22,378
I also can't push it short for 2 reasons. The ball is too spinny and it bounces too hard off my rubber (more advanced players might solve this, but I can't). His serve isn't underspin either, its more just like heavy sidespin. Also, I can't get to the ball early enough because I'm also standing behind the table and watching out for the fast long serve. If I try to stand closer to the table and get to the serve, he can will use the long serve on me.
You gotta work on your footwork and anticipation (which will improve your perceived "reaction"). But for the time being, you gotta be brave and counter by standing closer to lure him into serving long and punish that. Solve one problem at a time. He makes you suffer more, you make him suffer less, but both of you still suffer. As it stands, you're getting nowhere. Get yourself somewhere else. Anywhere but here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sims
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Oct 2024
159
98
412
my recommendation against pendulum aimed at your BH.
- if the ball drifts long, you have to loop or attack it with BH or FH. looks like you know how to do it already
- if its short (= would bounce 2+ times on your half table), try to put it back short to HIS FH side. because the pendulum serve is usually with side spin, the mistake not to make is to put your bat angle parallel to the net.
(a) If you touch the ball on the LEFT side with a bat angle like (seen from above)

\​

you would need to put more spin on the ball than the incoming one, basically do a chiquita is a very good solution

the other solution is to open your wrist, and contact the ball on the left and swiping with your FH and put YOUR side spin. it can be very effective if the opponent doesn't expect it, and if you can put a lot of spin so that the trajectory dies on the BH short side of the table but the problem is that you must move on the left side of the table and open the table totally , leaving your FH side empty

(b)
If you touch the ball on the RIGHT side with a bat angle like (seen from above)

/​

you will kill the side spin. you can do it with your FH and then its easier then to aim for short FH side. it will force your opponent to move. bat angle should be adjusted if the serve is underspin (more horizontal and lift a bit the ball) or no-spin (more vertical and do a mini chop at impact)

its possible also to do a long push with my BH with the tip of the racket FORWARD. With that a bit unusual angle I can push deep and fast to his BH (and its actually easier than it seems). Not many people do that so it can surprise the opponent at least the first time you do it.

if the serve is SHORT, then with the same angle, and my BH, but the tip of the racket INWARD, i can drop the ball behind the net. its killing the incoming sidespin, and very easy to control. Its often a winner for me in matches. the main problem with this receive, IMO, is that you must NOT anticipate. because if you prepare to do this shot and the serve actually comes long or even half long, the bat angle is totally wrong and you will get jammed.

there are plenty of other receives but thats what i know how to do in matches.
What he says, but my BH side is my best side, so those kind of players stop serving on my BH to serve short on my FH side. If long: attack, if short a simi-strawberry side push to the server's FH, if short near middle, I just drop the ball too + the server gets a taste of his own medicine back
 
  • Like
Reactions: Takkyu_wa_inochi
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2023
174
160
396
It's either a straight semi-long push with a really heavy cut (which is more difficult) or a fast BH flick (which is easier). And then it is all about the quality of these two of your shots. If the guy can attack both regardless, he's just a much better player and you will have to live with it until you catch up.
 
Top