How would you define a Pro?

[Zezima]

Professional athlete: to be engaged in your specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.

Wall Green or the Taiwan Rugby team wouldn't fit this.
I assume the Taiwan Rugby team are part time, as were all rugby teams before the 90's (except NZ maybe..)
Which brings about another category, part time professional.

But full time pro is pretty clear to me.

those are called semi-pros and has the name "pro" in it aswell. Since they get payment but don't rely on it and most have to seek another full time job.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I assume the Taiwan Rugby team are part time, as were all rugby teams before the 90's (except NZ maybe..)
Which brings about another category, part time professional.

we all call them amateurs, because they are hobby players, who got together to play.
this is often the case in many sports, including those that wen to the olympic.
I can' remember off hand, but I think there are many examples from various sporting codes where they took annual leave from work, to go to the olympics
some of them even unpaid leave.
They had a full time job and the part time hobbie ended up in national colors. Maybe we can call them pros in their own country, so that just means we have entry level pro and high end pros

PS. how about that table tennis player from Chile, made the olympics as a part timer,
I think it is getting more confusing.

 

[NetProphet]

we all call them amateurs, because they are hobby players, who got together to play.
this is often the case in many sports, including those that wen to the olympic.
I can' remember off hand, but I think there are many examples from various sporting codes where they took annual leave from work, to go to the olympics
some of them even unpaid leave.
They had a full time job and the part time hobbie ended up in national colors. Maybe we can call them pros in their own country, so that just means we have entry level pro and high end pros

Yes.
I would categorise that as part timers getting to play at the professional level.
Many sports do facilitate this.

It's like the Faroe Islands football team is still made up of salesmen, accountants etc even though they have a few notable results over the years, managing to beat Austria and Canada 1-0.

Liechtenstein is another example in football where amateurs represent their county V professionals.

And don't forget the Jamaican Bobsleigh team! 😊

PS. how about that table tennis player from Chile, made the olympics as a part timer,
I think it is getting more confusing.

Yes, Zeng, how could I forget!
It was my wife who told me about her last year as she said to me 'keep believing, it's never too late!!' 😂

 

[latej]

I personally feel playing level (skills) + full time job (remuneration) should be the 2 main checklist to determine a pro.
normally with such playing level, remuneration is possible - ie playing professional in Europe and the higher the level, the higher the remuneration

Yes, I see it that way too actually... But imagine people like zen-monks living in a monastery, practicing whatever they practicing possibly even harder than CNT, getting to levels, which may be incomprehensible sometimes for us, and yet - it's not a job, and there is no remuneration... Hence for me actually the level is all that matters... And I tend to just see it as a kind of line which goes up to WCQ, and I really don't care much where is the point of non-pro/pro split ;-) Cheers.

 

[NDH]

I think it is important to have a neutral understanding of what is Pro
since we all have an idea on what is beginner, and what is intermediate

Do we?

What qualifies as someone advancing from "beginner to intermediate"?

Time? Ability? Dedication?

I know plenty of people who have been playing for decades, and they are still rooted in the bottom division of local league. Are they a beginner?

Likewise with Intermediate, that covers such a wide array of player, and I think the definition of this specific word is probably the hardest to define.

I personally feel playing level (skills) + full time job (remuneration) should be the 2 main checklist to determine a pro.
normally with such playing level, remuneration is possible - ie playing professional in Europe and the higher the level, the higher the remuneration

How many people in China do you think would make the Worlds top 100 if given the chance?

Maybe this is more of an anomaly, but I'd guess there are many MANY "non pros" in China, who have a higher ability/skill level than others "pros" in the world.

Others have already answered - It's money (predominantly). That's what defines a "pro".

If you make a living playing Table Tennis in a country with a really poor playing standard, you are still a pro.

 

[Tyce]

If making a living is the criterium, plenty of top players from smaller TT countries aren't Pro.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

How many people in China do you think would make the Worlds top 100 if given the chance?

Probably at least one thousand

 

[NetProphet]

How many people in China do you think would make the Worlds top 100 if given the chance?

100 😂

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

haha
well, we all saw how those 2nd strings are loosing
I think there is no longer an all 100 will be chinese any more
the gap is lesser now.
and those that comes out and looses to randomers, pretty much don't have many opportunities. Maybe with more lifelines, though could become better, but it is difficult to say.

many foreigners has gone into Chinese leagues and beating Chinese players too. so there is lots of historical fact to state 100 out of 100 Chinese is impossible

 

[lightspin]

I would define pro as someone whose income is derived from playing table tennis. This could be prize money, salary from a club or government, or sponsorships.

You could talk about what is a "pro level" but that is subjective and difficult to define.

How many players in China could crack the top 100? With the way the weird ranking system works, for women at least 10,000. For men at least 1000 but probably way more. With local champion points bonuses, if they went to a weaker area of the world and did well in that area, they are automatically in the top 100 without too much of a tough time. China has so many women players who trained seriously from a young age that no one has ever heard of. For men the road would be tougher, but the system still produces so many good players. A lot of retired male players in China still could break the top 100.

 

[zeio]

There have never been more CNT players in the Top 100 than now. The Top100/Total ratio has been kept at roughly 1/3.

MS Top 100/Total

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/2024_49_SEN_MS.html
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/2024_23_SEN_MS.html
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024_1_SEN_MS.html
2024
/12 WK49 - 14/42
/6 WK23 - 13/44
/1 WK1 - 16/46

https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2008/12
https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2008/6
https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2008/1
2008
/12 - 8/24
/6 - 11/29
/1 - 11/29

 

[banbekas]

Like Tennis players. So, no CNT is pro. They are all highly skilled amateurs.

 

[thisisit]

you don't have to make money to be a pro. you just need to practice your profession with the intent of making money.

 

[staysmart]

Zhu Yi Thought i saw him competing in doubles at Chinese Nationals against Ma Long / Wang Chuqin

 

[Metaxa]

A pro is someone who can live (well) on the income he gets from playing table tennis regardless of where the money comes from, without having to pursue another profession. All others are semi-pros or amateur pros.

 

[Brozi]

Havent read all the responses (no time ;/), but for me a pro (player) is someone who earns his living fully from tabletennis, while training full time (not having any other job to support him).

 

[PoppaChubby]

Consistently - I guess that is indeed important, but if you are rich, and of very low level and have a national federation that is happy to enter you into international tournaments and you can fly overseas with your parents money and loose every single match as your level can't match those overseas.
would that still count as a Pro in your example?

Being in the WTT is a requirement then ? not sure, in that case how would call fan Zhendong nad his performances at the China National Games this year ?

Most of the Bundesliga B pros are not playing in the WTT, nor the french Pro B guys like Emmanuel Lebesson. I think playing a national/local pro league is enough to tell you're a pro. In that case the MLTT would be far from being a pro league, but it's actually a pro league. Enzo Angles isn't playing in he WTT anymore, Damien Provost is another example: the guys is far from being a WTT top 500 athlete, but he makes money playing in many local leagues like Greece, Spain, Sweden, the MLTT of course, etc.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Havent read all the responses (no time ;/), but for me a pro (player) is someone who earns his living fully from tabletennis, while training full time (not having any other job to support him).

I think this is a very simple and straight forward answer

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

you don't have to make money to be a pro. you just need to practice your profession with the intent of making money.

then every TTD member counts? haha

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Havent read all the responses (no time ;/), but for me a pro (player) is someone who earns his living fully from tabletennis, while training full time (not having any other job to support him).

• K.I.S.S. response. Gozo approves 100%. No money no pro. End of story.
• Tony is a pro b'coz he teaches U19 giggly college girls ( I've watched his YT ) and receive a fee.
  If he does not receive a fee and is doing it pro-bono, then he is still a hobby player.
• Heming is definitely a pro as he receives his income from coaching.
• Bobrow is a pro as he receives his income from YT related to TT, event commentary and being an Andro brand ambassador.
• Gozo is a 100% hobby player.