If you are the CNT boss, what would you do?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

As elaborated by Li Sun earlier today.


At the beginning of the new Olympic cycle, the new competitive landscape has not yet formed, and all teams have the chance to compete for the title. The young athletes of the national table tennis team need to be exposed to more competitions and also need time to grow, which are in line with the laws of competitive sports.

I have seen many olympic games and many olympic cycles.

If you feel what we have witness the past 2 months with CNT performance, considered "part of plan" or "normal", then I have to disagree with you. Many main players have struggled leading up to Paris OG and have fallen post OG.
CNT is no longer the threat it once was, and that is for sure.

The same busy schedule post OG includes other countries too, so the overloading isn't isolated issue for China.
Early this year when I said schedule overload, you couldn't agree with that.... but even the head coach is blaming on that now. lol

As I said, CNT have probably loss more games / sets this year than the past 20 years added together against foreigners.

History can't be changed now.
The foreigners now have even more belief that they can remove CNT from the thrown.
The pressure will be even more from the new leaders in the team. That is for sure

To say CNT is not bothered about it, sounds more like PR talk. But i'm sure deep within, the threat is clear.
otherwise, why did they activate CNT C team?? for this sole reason of continuation and succession plan.

Personally, I do feel CNT will continue to win, but the gap will close in even further.
It is really only a few that is keeping it alive.
before, maybe 5 to 10 players per gender can knock out foreign forces.
now, it is maybe only 2 to 4 players, and that is not guaranteed on the day too.

The foreign opponents are all young too. Unlike the older opponents of the previous cycles.
I believe more foreign opponents will raise up and CNT will eventual struggle to due with the overall quantity of foreign threats.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Table tennis head coach responds to team’s worst results in history - Global Times

www.globaltimes.cn

well, there is near 20 feeders, hopefully the so called "young ones" can play 15+ of them.

 

[darkky65]

hire some mental health coaches.

 

[zeio]

I have seen many olympic games and many olympic cycles.

If you feel what we have witness the past 2 months with CNT performance, considered "part of plan" or "normal", then I have to disagree with you. Many main players have struggled leading up to Paris OG and have fallen post OG.
CNT is no longer the threat it once was, and that is for sure.

The same busy schedule post OG includes other countries too, so the overloading isn't isolated issue for China.
Early this year when I said schedule overload, you couldn't agree with that.... but even the head coach is blaming on that now. lol

As I said, CNT have probably loss more games / sets this year than the past 20 years added together against foreigners.

History can't be changed now.
The foreigners now have even more belief that they can remove CNT from the thrown.
The pressure will be even more from the new leaders in the team. That is for sure

To say CNT is not bothered about it, sounds more like PR talk. But i'm sure deep within, the threat is clear.
otherwise, why did they activate CNT C team?? for this sole reason of continuation and succession plan.

Personally, I do feel CNT will continue to win, but the gap will close in even further.
It is really only a few that is keeping it alive.
before, maybe 5 to 10 players per gender can knock out foreign forces.
now, it is maybe only 2 to 4 players, and that is not guaranteed on the day too.

The foreign opponents are all young too. Unlike the older opponents of the previous cycles.
I believe more foreign opponents will raise up and CNT will eventual struggle to due with the overall quantity of foreign threats.

As NextLevel pondered in his post on Odo's true level after WTT CS Montpellier 2024, the past 2 tournaments, rather than the past 2 months (which would tip the scale the other way and rebut your arguments), do not show the whole picture.

Faraji just got trashed by Park Gyuhyeon but made the main draw as the lucky loser at WTT CT Muscat 2024, comparing that with his performance at ATTC 2024, should I jump to the conclusion that he is a shooting star rather than a rising star?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

As NextLevel pondered in his post on Odo's true level after WTT CS Montpellier 2024, the past 2 tournaments, rather than the past 2 months (which would tip the scale the other way and rebut your arguments), do not show the whole picture.

Faraji just got trashed by Park Gyuhyeon but made the main draw as the lucky loser at WTT CT Muscat 2024, comparing that with his performance at ATTC 2024, should I jump to the conclusion that he is a shooting star rather than a rising star?

whats up with your butt and anal?

For a moment, I don't even know who you talking about in Faraji

But now I can see, you are trying to find excuses.
This thread is not about finding excuses and being in denial, but about finding solutions

so... stay to the point or start your own thread please.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

hire some mental health coaches.

this is actually a very good suggestion.

who ever is working on LGY has failed
WCQ is going the same path, especially after his 0-19 experience

 

[zeio]

Looking back on comments from Saudi Smash 2024 and China Smash 2024, Oliverpool was pretty accurate on LSD.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/saudi-smash-2024.33519/post-458449
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/china-smash-2024-beijing-9-26-10-6.33455/post-482854

Felix's record in the past 2 months (33% title rate, 33% final rate):
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - W 4-1 Harimoto (see below)
ETTC 2024 - QF 3-4 Duda (5, 4, -9, 6, -6, -14, -6) [Official score after disqualification is 0-4 (-0, -0, -0, -0)] and W in MD 3-0 Kallberg/Moregard (2, 6, 8)
China Smash 2024 - R16 1-3 XP (-9, 10, -9, -10) and SF in MD 0-3 LJK/WCQ (-3, -9, -12)

Alexis' record in the past 2 months (33% title rate, 33% final rate)
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - SF 1-3 F. Lebrun (-6, 7, -14, -9)
ETTC 2024 - W 4-0 Duda (5, 8, 6, 2) and W in MD (see above)
China Smash 2024 - R64 0-3 Calderano (-7, -9, -11) and SF in MD 0-3 LJK/WCQ (see above)

Harimoto's record in the past 2 months (25% title rate, 50% final rate)
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - F 1-4 F. Lebrun (-7, -9, -6, 8, -4)
ATTC 2024 - W 3-1 LSD (see below) and 5th in MT and QF in MD
China Smash 2024 - R16 2-3 Moregard (-13, 9, 4, -6, -11)
WTT CS Macao 2024 - R16 2-3 LSD (-13, 9, -9, 4, -8)

LSD's record in the past 2 months (60% title rate, 80% final rate)
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - SF 0-4 F. Lebrun (-12, -9, -9, -3)
ATTC 2024 - F 1-3 Harimoto (-9, -6, 4, -5) and W in MT/XD 3-1 Ri Jong Sik/Kim Kum Yong (-9, 10, 9, 13) and QF in MD
China Smash 2024 - W 4-3 ML (4, -7, -5, -13, 4, 5, 8) and W in MD/XD
WTT CS Macao 2024 - W 4-0 QD (5, 6, 8, 8)
WTT CT Almaty 2024 - W 4-3 Oh Junsung (5, -9, -6, -6, 8, 12, 9) and W in MD/XD

Note that both Harimoto and LSD played more events and way more matches than the Lebrun brothers. That, coupled with the results, rebut your arguments.

 

[Dominikk85]

CNT had the first rocky year ever since the Swedes passed over the reign decades ago.
They had been some solo warriors challenging the 3 decade CNT champions, some upsets by Chinese players moving overseas etc.
the threat was only a handful at most and could be tamed by even the no 5 player in the team.

Today, nearly everyone in the top 50 can challenge a top CNT player.
The Olympics was probably the start of the fall
ATTC saw how CNT couldn't handle the pressure + workload and now the 2nd last Champion of the year.

Rumors of FZD retiring (who will retire first - Ma Long of FZD??)
Ma Long retiring too
WCQ become just like the unstable LGY
LJK the reliable 2nd string leader loosing more and more and he isn't getting younger too....
the list goes on and the women's team isn't any better.
and there isn't good juniors coming through....

There will be one more Champion in a months time, it is probably not enough time to do anything, but if you are the CNT boss, what would you do for 2025?
surely if things continue as is, it will only go in one direction.

I think lin shidong will probably reach the same level as wcq and fzd so the next years don't Look bad. China just has the best coaching that will continue to build excellent players.

I did read somewhere though that table tennis has lost popularity among young Chinese compared to sports like soccer and basketball so maybe in the future it will be tougher to create superstar players when the number of naturally gifted athletes in table tennis drops.

However the coaching quality and also experience of the coaches winning major titles and medals of course still is a big edge for Chinese table tennis, having superstar coaches like LGL and wang Hao just creates an expectation of excellence where nothing less than gold medal is acceptable.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think lin shidong will probably reach the same level as wcq and fzd so the next years don't Look bad. China just has the best coaching that will continue to build excellent players.

I did read somewhere though that table tennis has lost popularity among young Chinese compared to sports like soccer and basketball so maybe in the future it will be tougher to create superstar players when the number of naturally gifted athletes in table tennis drops.

However the coaching quality and also experience of the coaches winning major titles and medals of course still is a big edge for Chinese table tennis, having superstar coaches like LGL and wang Hao just creates an expectation of excellence where nothing less than gold medal is acceptable.

You are right that CNT still has a lot that will work for them and the biggest threat is indeed less kids playing table tennis, which is already the case over 10 years ago.

That actually makes sense with the current B team and C team weekness, as 16 years old today would have started playing 10 years ago.

Shanghai, Shandong, Beijing are just some (previous strong TT powerhouses) that are struggling to groom the same amount of players for CNT. They struggling with players from within, that they need to recruit from other provinces.

CNT solution with C team likely will only blossom in 6-8 years time (when the u12 players they took in 1-2 years ago turn 20).
Until then, the current structure remains as is, so it will be interesting to see how leadership bridge the gap.

 

[PoppaChubby]

Looking back on comments from Saudi Smash 2024 and China Smash 2024, Oliverpool was pretty accurate on LSD.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/saudi-smash-2024.33519/post-458449
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/china-smash-2024-beijing-9-26-10-6.33455/post-482854

Felix's record in the past 2 months (33% title rate, 33% final rate):
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - W 4-1 Harimoto (see below)
ETTC 2024 - QF 3-4 Duda (5, 4, -9, 6, -6, -14, -6) [Official score after disqualification is 0-4 (-0, -0, -0, -0)] and W in MD 3-0 Kallberg/Moregard (2, 6, 8)
China Smash 2024 - R16 1-3 XP (-9, 10, -9, -10) and SF in MD 0-3 LJK/WCQ (-3, -9, -12)

Alexis' record in the past 2 months (33% title rate, 33% final rate)
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - SF 1-3 F. Lebrun (-6, 7, -14, -9)
ETTC 2024 - W 4-0 Duda (5, 8, 6, 2) and W in MD (see above)
China Smash 2024 - R64 0-3 Calderano (-7, -9, -11) and SF in MD 0-3 LJK/WCQ (see above)

Harimoto's record in the past 2 months (25% title rate, 50% final rate)
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - F 1-4 F. Lebrun (-7, -9, -6, 8, -4)
ATTC 2024 - W 3-1 LSD (see below) and 5th in MT and QF in MD
China Smash 2024 - R16 2-3 Moregard (-13, 9, 4, -6, -11)
WTT CS Macao 2024 - R16 2-3 LSD (-13, 9, -9, 4, -8)

LSD's record in the past 2 months (60% title rate, 80% final rate)
WTT CS Montpellier 2024 - SF 0-4 F. Lebrun (-12, -9, -9, -3)
ATTC 2024 - F 1-3 Harimoto (-9, -6, 4, -5) and W in MT/XD 3-1 Ri Jong Sik/Kim Kum Yong (-9, 10, 9, 13) and QF in MD
China Smash 2024 - W 4-3 ML (4, -7, -5, -13, 4, 5, 8) and W in MD/XD
WTT CS Macao 2024 - W 4-0 QD (5, 6, 8, 8)
WTT CT Almaty 2024 - W 4-3 Oh Junsung (5, -9, -6, -6, 8, 12, 9) and W in MD/XD

Note that both Harimoto and LSD played more events and way more matches than the Lebrun brothers. That, coupled with the results, rebut your arguments.

Again, the Lebruns have to play way outside of Europe, and they've to compete in the national league. It's easier for Harimoto to travel between Japan and China than for the Lebruns between France and China: time zones, jet lag... Plus: OG in Paris, with media duties after that. LSD was basically chillin' in June, July and August.

 

[zeio]

This is wasting my time. I have better things to do.

I should point out that Tony argued with a member from France a few years ago and in the heat of the moment mocked that member by questioning the historical achievements of France. To see the opportunistic side of him jumping on the French bandwagon now is nothing short of amusing.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is wasting my time. I have better things to do.

I should point out that Tony argued with a member from France a few years ago and in the heat of the moment mocked that member by questioning the historical achievements of France. To see the opportunistic side of him jumping on the French bandwagon now is nothing short of amusing.

haha,
well, you haven't added any solution to this thread, but keep being pro CNT and how there is no problem and on how China is the hero to France and all other countries, despite a messy period as mentioned in OP, so messy the coach need to hide from award ceremonies.
You sound like the foreign minister or should be the next person in line for that job!

and I have always remain neutral will all parties.
I can say bad things about France and I can also say good things when there is merit.
With the change of time and circumstances, each and everyone will change too you know.
As that is my democratic right and freedom
CNT is great for 2 to 3 decades, its time for a change and denial is not good for health!

until you can also be neutral, your view is clearly pro China and anti every other country, especially anti Japanese girls..... it does get boring over time and I hope you do find something better to do with your time than finding excuses for CNT in this thread.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

LSD was basically chillin' in June, July and August.

I see you only just joined TTD
you going to get very popular very soon,

what you said is true, hahaha
the olympic champions are however working very hard.... if you know what I mean, lol

 

[zeio]

Matches in 2021/2022/2023/2024, Total
LSD 4/69/144/85, 302
F. Lebrun 82/95/99/79, 355 (The record so far is 108 in 2019)
Harimoto 29/50/80/129, 288 (Previous records were 107 in 2015 and 105 in 2019)

 

[PoppaChubby]

I see you only just joined TTD
you going to get very popular very soon,

what you said is true, hahaha
the olympic champions are however working very hard.... if you know what I mean, lol

My name is PoppaChubby because I respect the CNT mind you, and Fan is the guy I like the most on this WTT circus. Maaan, he loves chillin' at concerts and football matches with whatever dude he finds there, he gets buliied in social medias by the DHS fangirls, and... baaaam grand slam !

PoppaChubby

Lil' Chubby

I just hope PoppaChubby won't look like the real Poppa Chubby, living his life like rock n' roll is cool, but mind the pizzas and the junk food on the way, to me a 7 games match with Fan sounds like this, it's rock n'roll with him baby !

 

[zeio]

haha,
well, you haven't added any solution to this thread, but keep being pro CNT and how there is no problem and on how China is the hero to France and all other countries, despite a messy period as mentioned in OP, so messy the coach need to hide from award ceremonies.
You sound like the foreign minister or should be the next person in line for that job!

and I have always remain neutral will all parties.
I can say bad things about France and I can also say good things when there is merit.
With the change of time and circumstances, each and everyone will change too you know.
As that is my democratic right and freedom
CNT is great for 2 to 3 decades, its time for a change and denial is not good for health!

until you can also be neutral, your view is clearly pro China and anti every other country, especially anti Japanese girls..... it does get boring over time and I hope you do find something better to do with your time than finding excuses for CNT in this thread.

Why would I provide a solution when the premise is false? Worry about TPE first.

 

[PoppaChubby]

Why would I provide a solution when the premise is false? Worry about TPE first.

We all worry about Taïwan first man... everybody needs semiconductors, not only China.

 

[PoppaChubby]

This is wasting my time. I have better things to do.

I should point out that Tony argued with a member from France a few years ago and in the heat of the moment mocked that member by questioning the historical achievements of France. To see the opportunistic side of him jumping on the French bandwagon now is nothing short of amusing.

Well you didn't do much better with that Han Hua thing bro... either way, each country has his own bias, contradictions, and we're all loving our mère patrie first and foremost. As a basketball fan I love a bit of trash talk sometimes, some booing, TT without spice is boring, but with Paris and Montpellier, now it gets fun !

I mean... that coach Molin trash talk over Freitas was raw, rude, crazy and funny still ! that's an example, to me he's like Wembanyama, that WTT circus really needed that freshness, we need some McEnroe, some Fognini, some Monfils guys in there

 

[PoppaChubby]

I have seen many olympic games and many olympic cycles.

If you feel what we have witness the past 2 months with CNT performance, considered "part of plan" or "normal", then I have to disagree with you. Many main players have struggled leading up to Paris OG and have fallen post OG.
CNT is no longer the threat it once was, and that is for sure.

The same busy schedule post OG includes other countries too, so the overloading isn't isolated issue for China.
Early this year when I said schedule overload, you couldn't agree with that.... but even the head coach is blaming on that now. lol

As I said, CNT have probably loss more games / sets this year than the past 20 years added together against foreigners.

History can't be changed now.
The foreigners now have even more belief that they can remove CNT from the thrown.
The pressure will be even more from the new leaders in the team. That is for sure

To say CNT is not bothered about it, sounds more like PR talk. But i'm sure deep within, the threat is clear.
otherwise, why did they activate CNT C team?? for this sole reason of continuation and succession plan.

Personally, I do feel CNT will continue to win, but the gap will close in even further.
It is really only a few that is keeping it alive.
before, maybe 5 to 10 players per gender can knock out foreign forces.
now, it is maybe only 2 to 4 players, and that is not guaranteed on the day too.

The foreign opponents are all young too. Unlike the older opponents of the previous cycles.
I believe more foreign opponents will raise up and CNT will eventual struggle to due with the overall quantity of foreign threats.

That's exactly what the american NBA pundits say about basketball: the NBA is the best league in the world, Lebron, Steph and KD are the FZD, Ma Long and WCQ (not Xu Xin obviously) of basketball. But Djoker/FeFe is a clear threat now, Wemby/Alex too, the gap is clearly way much closing even if USA still wins, even if the actual Celtics would destroy Zalgiris or the Pana.

and yeah, some americans hate that, exactly like zeio

All in all, Europe dominates the global sport scene because they always adapt, bringing new developments: french youth education and player development (football, volleyball, handball, basketball, and now table tennis), serbia/slovenia textbook with ex-yugos coach dominating in basketball, etc.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

That's exactly what the american NBA pundits say about basketball: the NBA is the best league in the world, Lebron, Steph and KD are the FZD, Ma Long and WCQ (not Xu Xin obviously) of basketball. But Djoker/FeFe is a clear threat now, Wemby/Alex too, the gap is clearly way much closing even if USA still wins, even if the actual Celtics would destroy Zalgiris or the Pana.


All in all, Europe dominates the global sport scene because they always adapt, bringing new developments: french youth education and player development (football, volleyball, handball, basketball, and now table tennis), serbia/slovenia textbook with ex-yugos coach dominating in basketball, etc.

you have a valid point.

the CNT head coach said, they need more game time for the younger players.
mean while, in the rest of Asia and Europe, the younger ones have so much game time already.

CNT has the most money by far, so what is stopping them sending the B team and 2nd tier A team, including that of C team to all the WTT events out there? there will be 120+ wtt events, so there isn't any shortage of game time. (but a total of 83 CNT players took part in WTT in 2024.... most of them having terrible results)

There is no doubt, based on age, Japan, even France, is ahead of China.
If we were to factor in TT population to young elites PROs, CNT is at a disadvantage, and has been for quite a few years.

I still remember when a young Miwa, who was 11 years old went to Shandong, none of the 15 years old players there can beat her. Now imagine if you have 5 or 10 Miwa's from Japan in 10 years time. Can CNT match that?

same thing with France and many part of Europe, the younger generations are coming out in numbers and I feel soon, even Taiwan will be out ranked by the Europeans.

For those that don't know, the ISF (schools tournament) table tennis teams event, China girl's lost to Taiwan for 2nd teams place. China boy's lost to Romania and end up 3rd.