If you are the CNT boss, what would you do?

[Gozo Aruna]

you have a valid point.

the CNT head coach said, they need more game time for the younger players.
mean while, in the rest of Asia and Europe, the younger ones have so much game time already.

CNT has the most money by far, so what is stopping them sending the B team and 2nd tier A team, including that of C team to all the WTT events out there? there will be 120+ wtt events, so there isn't any shortage of game time. (but a total of 83 CNT players took part in WTT in 2024.... most of them having terrible results)

There is no doubt, based on age, Japan, even France, is ahead of China.
If we were to factor in TT population to young elites PROs, CNT is at a disadvantage, and has been for quite a few years.

I still remember when a young Miwa, who was 11 years old went to Shandong, none of the 15 years old players there can beat her. Now imagine if you have 5 or 10 Miwa's from Japan in 10 years time. Can CNT match that?

same thing with France and many part of Europe, the younger generations are coming out in numbers and I feel soon, even Taiwan will be out ranked by the Europeans.

For those that don't know, the ISF (schools tournament) table tennis teams event, China girl's lost to Taiwan for 2nd teams place. China boy's lost to Romania and end up 3rd.

@Tony's Table Tennis ,

FYI in WTT Youth Contender Ismailie, U13 + U15 & U17 GS Champion are all won by Malaysians.

 

[TTFrenzy]

CNT start getting their arse handed to them at around the same time ESN started to come out with Hybrids. Now the non-CNT can also tackified their game without boosting. Igor Novick will be so happy.

hybrid rubbers have little to do with what is happening.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

so, WCQ will be back for champions, his side of the draw doesn't seem easy, but again, it is champions, - any one can pretty much beat anyone.
biggest test of R32 for WCQ to end the year on the plus, its been a tough one for him

LSD, only plays on Tuesday, thus giving him extra rest day. compared to others starting on Sunday.

overall, 2 CNT mens and 5 womens taking part in Frankfurt.
I'm sure the players want to perform and win - no player wants to loose.
lets see what will happen!

 

[PoppaChubby]

so, WCQ will be back for champions, his side of the draw doesn't seem easy, but again, it is champions, - any one can pretty much beat anyone.
biggest test of R32 for WCQ to end the year on the plus, its been a tough one for him

LSD, only plays on Tuesday, thus giving him extra rest day. compared to others starting on Sunday.

overall, 2 CNT mens and 5 womens taking part in Frankfurt.
I'm sure the players want to perform and win - no player wants to loose.
lets see what will happen!

It's been the same for the Bros in Montpellier: they started on wednesday, Alexis getting another 1 day off on thursday. That's why we got a "Super Sunday" with the semis and finals. It was to help the Bros.

 

[zeio]

LGL's comment on 2025 and beyond.

https://weibo.com/7360795486/P6mNspEMg
全国体育局长会议今日召开
中国乒乓球协会主席刘国梁表示：从2025年新的周期开始，在这个周期会给更多年轻人一些比赛机会。第一年，是更多的这个培养，第二年相对成熟一些，第三年是这个冲刺，第四年是实际的这个奥运会的这个备战。所以在这些过程当中呢，首先要搭建新的平台，组建新的架构，组织好新的团队，这里头有教练员的，有这种运动员梯队培养的，而且有周期性的，针对这个年龄、打法和团队整体的这种配置。
The National Sports Directors' Meeting was held today
Liu Guoliang, President of CTTA, expressed: Starting from the new cycle in 2025, more young people will be given some competition opportunities in this cycle. The first year is more about culturing, the second year is relatively mature, the third year is the sprint, and the fourth year is the actual preparation for the Olympics. So in these processes, we must first build a new platform, form a new structure, and organize a new team. There are coaches and athletes who are trained in echelons, and there are periodic configurations specifically for age, playing style, and the overall team.

191这不就出来讲话了吗？ (LGL has spoken, hasn't he?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9357324000
刘国梁谈奥运新周期 (LGL on the new Olympic cycle)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9357278129

 

[Kopp]

I'd ask more money from the parents of the players & promise them that their children will be in the CNT or at least will train with the CNT 😂

 

[Dominikk85]

I think the next Generation is already coming. LSD will be number 1 soon. I think There is a decline in Chinese table tennis at the youth level if you just look at the number of players playing but they still have a large number of players and great coaching.

One disadvantage the Chinese have compared to prior years is the WTT. The year round play means Chinese players get exposed more to international players and they also have less time for training.

In the past China could kinda hide their players from the other players and spend month of training to prepare while the international players couldn't get used to them.

Now international players get more practice against Chinese players. Of course vice versa that is true too but generally cnt has better possibility to prepare for international players in training due to a large array of good training partners while the international players don't have as great training partners.

That means the WTT is a little bit of an equalizer which probably it also was meant to be.

However when you look at the really big titles the Chinese still have won them and will continue to do so.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think the next Generation is already coming. LSD will be number 1 soon. I think There is a decline in Chinese table tennis at the youth level if you just look at the number of players playing but they still have a large number of players and great coaching.

One disadvantage the Chinese have compared to prior years is the WTT. The year round play means Chinese players get exposed more to international players and they also have less time for training.

In the past China could kinda hide their players from the other players and spend month of training to prepare while the international players couldn't get used to them.

Now international players get more practice against Chinese players. Of course vice versa that is true too but generally cnt has better possibility to prepare for international players in training due to a large array of good training partners while the international players don't have as great training partners.

That means the WTT is a little bit of an equalizer which probably it also was meant to be.

However when you look at the really big titles the Chinese still have won them and will continue to do so.

you are spot on with everything.

in the past, CNT relies heavily on long term preparation - 40 days camps for 1 tournament and they will practice every strategy and opponent to the tee and only play few events a year.

CNT didn't use to focus that much on youths, other than the few big events a year.
WTT has shifted focused for more regular participation, so CNT has to adapt.
The dept within China's provincial structures has weakened, and this has affected influx to CNT.

what you say is also true - the west is no stranger to Chinese players or styles and no stranger to the actual players any more.
The fear factor is probably different compared to a decade ago.
There is a bigger range of threat today towards the Chinese than there are a decade ago.
The gap is closing in, so pressure is on for sure.

CNT needs to win, and anything other than clean sweep is a failure.
How many jobs out there requires 100% success? its not an easy job

Today I was chatting with one of Taiwan's national coaches and discussing which players require more training to maintain form, while some others don't.
Overall, it was a very interesting discussion, as some players are reliant on regular high intensity training to maintain form - ie Dima, while others actually train very little and can just prep few days before and maintain form - ie Timo Boll.

I believe most of CNT is on the Dima package

 

[Kopp]

I saw the China TT National Ch. on YT. There were many players at the same level as the CNT competing in the tournament. Cronyism and money probably played a role in the selection of CNT members.

 

[zeio]

Discussion over at PTT.

[心得] 中國的問題 [Thoughts] CNT's problem
https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/tabletennis/M.1733540241.A.F45.html

推 skypiper: 以前中國非前三隻的也都很常輸球 但前三隻勝率很難掉 12/09 22:20
→ skypiper: 什麼林高遠梁靖崑從以前就很常輸球了 他們只是沒進步 12/09 22:20
→ skypiper: 王楚欽和林詩棟說真的也只是剛要上來的小將而已 12/09 22:21
→ skypiper: 王楚欽只是世界排名被安排弄到第一 大賽一個也沒拿 12/09 22:21
→ skypiper: 這些人只能說跟不上前面的梯隊 能力還沒練上來 12/09 22:22
→ skypiper: 為什麼以前中國不會有這種狀況 因為一直有好的前三隻 12/09 22:22
→ skypiper: 在先發還沒退休之前就會先把新人練好去衝擊巔峰選手 12/09 22:22
→ skypiper: 現在馬龍退了 後面的人都沒練起來 只好硬擠一個王楚欽 12/09 22:23
→ skypiper: 這些新人和非主力的能力都不夠 上去當然會出現輸球 12/09 22:24
→ skypiper: 那種省隊都出來打 世界就只剩中國的說法真的別瞎扯 12/09 22:25
→ skypiper: 看這些硬擠上去的主力就知道 維持贏球不是那麼容易 12/09 22:25
→ skypiper: 過去中國的資源分配規劃得很好 主力獲得集中資源 12/09 22:26
→ skypiper: 所以世界前50的人數 日本一直遠勝於中國 12/09 22:26
→ skypiper: 但是真的比起拿冠軍 中國主力更精銳 12/09 22:28
→ skypiper: 現在中國內部教練團一直換來換去 資源不知道弄成怎樣 12/09 22:28
→ skypiper: 但就讓人感覺選手沒有獲得很好的培養 12/09 22:29
→ skypiper: 看過去中國選手很容易看到幾個月就有明顯進步或技術改革 12/09 22:29
→ skypiper: 現在看看林高遠梁靖崑跟他們三四年前有差嗎 沒有誒 12/09 22:29
→ skypiper: 王楚欽強勢的時候很強勢 可是烙賽的時候超烙賽 12/09 22:30
→ skypiper: 這個問題從以前到現在一點改進都沒有 12/09 22:30
→ skypiper: 他也不是像張繼科烙賽都在小比賽 大賽都很強勢 12/09 22:31
→ skypiper: 王楚欽大賽一樣烙賽給你看 這種選手以前中國不會重用 12/09 22:31
→ skypiper: 以前中國教練團還寧可用沒那麼強 但是成績穩定的 12/09 22:32
→ skypiper: 那些器材問題還有技戰術問題 說真的都不是問題 12/09 22:32
→ skypiper: 如果是以前劉國梁時代 幾個月半年就解決掉了 12/09 22:32
→ skypiper: 現在只感覺教練和選手一點都不契合 資源也沒有合理規劃 12/09 22:33
推 skypiper: 以前我講青黃不接只是有點開玩笑意味在講 12/09 22:36
→ skypiper: 可是看看現在 新舊主力銜接得好嗎 是不是開始起了個問號 12/09 22:37

Recommended by skypiper: In the past, the CNT players that were not in the top 3 also often lost, but the winning rate of the top 3 rarely dropped 12/09 22:20
→ skypiper: Lin Gaoyuan and Liang Jingkun have always lost before. They just haven’t improved 12/09 22:20
→ skypiper: Wang Chuqin and Lin Shidong are really just young players who are coming up 12/09 22:21
→ skypiper: Wang Chuqin was only ranked first in the world through intervention and has not won any majors 12/09 22:21
→ skypiper: These players can only be said that they cannot keep up with the previous echelons and have not yet developed their abilities 12/09 22:22
→ skypiper: Why did CNT not have this situation before? Because there have always been good top 3 12/09 22:22
→ skypiper: Before the old guards retire, they will first train the newcomers to reach the top 12/09 22:22
→ skypiper: Now that Ma Long has retreated, the ones behind him have not practiced enough, so they have to squeeze out Wang Chuqin 12/09 22:23
→ skypiper: These newcomers and non-main players are not capable enough. Of course, they will lose if they go up 12/09 22:24
→ skypiper: Don’t be silly saying that if all provincial teams come out to play, CNT will be the only one left in the world 12/09 22:25
→ skypiper: Just look at these main players who have forced their way in, and you will know that it is not so easy to keep winning 12/09 22:25
→ skypiper: In the past, CNT's resource allocation was well planned and the main players secured concentrated resources 12/09 22:26
→ skypiper: So in terms of players in the top 50 in the world, JPN has always been far greater than CHN 12/09 22:26
→ skypiper: But compared to winning titles, CNT’s main players are more elite 12/09 22:28
→ skypiper: CNT’s internal coaching team is constantly changing, and I don’t know how the resources will be allocated 12/09 22:28
→ skypiper: But it gives off the vibe that the players are not well trained 12/09 22:29
→ skypiper: Looking at CNT players in the past, it is easy to see significant progress or technological reforms within a few months 12/09 22:29
→ skypiper: Now see if there is any difference between Lin Gaoyuan and Liang Jingkun and their old selves three or four years ago? No 12/09 22:29
→ skypiper: Wang Chuqin is very strong when he is strong, but when he craps out, he is super crappy 12/09 22:30
→ skypiper: This problem has not been relieved at all from before to now 12/09 22:30
→ skypiper: He is not like Zhang Jike who only crapped out in minor competitions and was very strong in major competitions 12/09 22:31
→ skypiper: Wang Chuqin will crap out for all to see in major competitions. This kind of player would not be reused by CNT in the past 12/09 22:31
→ skypiper: In the past, the CNT coaching staff would rather use those who were not that strong but had consistent results 12/09 22:32
→ skypiper: Those equipment issues and technical and tactical issues are really not a problem 12/09 22:32
→ skypiper: If it were the Liu Guoliang era, it would have been solved within a few months to a half year 12/09 22:32
→ skypiper: Now I just feel that the coaches and the players are not compatible at all, and the resources are not properly planned 12/09 22:33
Recommended by skypiper: I used to say that I was joking when I talked about the issue of transfer of power from old to new 12/09 22:36
→ skypiper: But look at how poor the new and old main players are connected now. Is there a question mark? 12/09 22:37

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-cnt-boss-what-would-you-do.35638/post-488701

It's way overblown. CNT has achieved all the major milestones for 2024.

...

It comes down to WCQ, LJK and LGY, but the latter two are on the way out, so the real concern is WCQ (losing to Moregard at Paris 2024), which is not surprising as I cautioned ahead of Paris 2024.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I saw the China TT National Ch. on YT. There were many players at the same level as the CNT competing in the tournament. Cronyism and money probably played a role in the selection of CNT members.

I some time wondered, how can Bejing loose so many players to Singapore, and then Singapore using Beijiing provincial players to beat CNT womens A team.
that was also in a time where there wasn't much Beijing women's players going into the national team.

So one could say, they were in the wrong provincial team....

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So former world junior champion Yu Ziyang has retired from the national team very quietly 2 months ago.
age 26 only.

He has a career high WR60 something at one stage, but he was never destined to be a favorite and was just at most, a practice partner. He would be a top 20 material, should he had the chance to play more events.
a whipping 0 WTT in 2024, 3 in 2023, 6 in 2022.... finishes with a international career win of 140 out of 172, a 81% win ratio (very very high).

There was an incident in 2018 where YTZ had an internal match against WCQ.
If WCQ wins, then next day practice is normal
If YTZ wins, then next day, the whole team, including YTZ needs to run 10km.
This decision was made by Liu Guozheng and LGZ called the Asian champ team together (FZD, LJK, LGY, YF) to cheer for WCQ in this match up.

YTZ said (after retirement), "After being in the national team for 10+ years, I have realized that I am only a ordinal person".

So, to the ones that believe CNT is a democratic space where it is each players job to define there own destiny... I am afraid the politics do not allow for fairness and you just need to live with it, or leave the team.

If he was to enter into a top European club and play leagues, he would be treated like a treasure for sure (especially with his track record of beating top 10/ top 20 world ranked players, ie at 16 years old beating JM 4-2 at ITTF World Tour Japan Open and won the tournament).

Lets hope YTZ has life after CNT, otherwise, will just be another lost talent.

YTZ last international role was Ma Long's practice partner and they were very close.
Has Ma Long "departure" lead to YTZ early retirement? I'm not sure, but why would you stay?

PS. He said he retired because of spending time with family and to treat injuries.

 

[ZFT]

So former world junior champion Yu Ziyang has retired from the national team very quietly.
age 26 only.

He has a career high WR60 something at one stage, but he was never destined to be a favorite and was just at most, a practice partner. He would be a top 20 material, should he had the chance to play more events.
a whipping 0 WTT in 2024, 3 in 2023, 6 in 2022.... finishes with a international career win of 140 out of 172, a 81% win ratio (very very high).

There was an incident in 2018 where YTZ had an internal match against WCQ.
If WCQ wins, then next day practice is normal
If YTZ wins, then next day, the whole team, including YTZ needs to run 10km.
This decision was made by Liu Guozheng and LGZ called the Asian champ team together (FZD, LJK, LGY, YF) to cheer for WCQ in this match up.

YTZ said (after retirement), "After being in the national team for 10 years, I have realized that I am only a ordinal person".

So, to the ones that believe CNT is a democratic space where it is each players job to define there own destiny... I am afraid the politics do not allow for fairness and you just need to live with it, or leave the team.

If he was to enter into a top European club and play leagues, he would be treated like a treasure for sure (especially with his track record of beating top 10/ top 20 world ranked players, ie at 16 years old beating JM 4-2 at ITTF World Tour Japan Open and won the tournament).

Lets hope YTZ has life after CNT, otherwise, will just be another lost talent.

YTZ last international role was Ma Long's practice partner and they were very close.
Has Ma Long departure lead to YTZ early retirement? I'm not sure, but why would you stay?

As a right hander I’ve always thought once you reach intermediate or advanced level and above, the ideal regular training partner would be a lefty with textbook topspin mechanics (as in little sidespin hook), as in my experience stable backhand speed rallying is typically the last foundational skill that is mastered.

At that level the lefty would be able to feed a more stable but powerful forehand to your backhand and it’s easier to track with the longer FH stroke form.

If you can consistently start matching the LH FH with your RH backhand defence it makes facing the short and snappier righthander BH to BH rallies infinitely easier.

For ML I can see it was with the specific strategic aim of reducing the BH rallying advantage of FZD and at the same time the added bonus of mimicking LYJ.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

As a right hander I’ve always thought once you reach intermediate or advanced level and above, the ideal regular training partner would be a lefty with textbook topspin mechanics (as in little sidespin hook), as in my experience stable backhand speed rallying is typically the last foundational skill that is mastered.

At that level the lefty would be able to feed a more stable but powerful forehand to your backhand and it’s easier to track with the longer FH stroke form.

If you can consistently start matching the LH FH with your RH backhand defence it makes facing the short and snappier righthander BH to BH rallies infinitely easier.

For ML I can see it was with the specific strategic aim of reducing the BH rallying advantage of FZD and at the same time the added bonus of mimicking LYJ.

what you say does have merits, and lefties are very high in demand practice partners.
there is an advantage, that players, parents and even coaches would convert right handers to play left handed at a young age.

Of the left handed pros I know in person, I think it is about 50-50 of true leftie vs fake leftie.

 

[zeio]

Yu Ziyang is 29. Born on 1995/5/23.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yu Ziyang is 29. Born on 1995/5/23.

well, depending if you want to use official or real age
this is the same pretty much all the time when we talk age... right, haha