Improving Third Ball Play After Service in Table Tennis

[palguay]

I have followed most of the big developments and scientific articles that have come out with regards to strength training in the past 15 years or so, so I am well aware of how incomplete and underfunded that much more popular and studied topic is.

I appreciate the idealism but have to laugh at the naivete of anyone who believes that the experienced coaches in the field care any bit about paltry research data is out there and using it to justify their methods to beginner students.

I enjoy talking about TT theory here but I'm under no delusion that it makes a lick of difference to improving my playing ability compared to actual table time and the input of an experienced coach with decades of coaching experience.

This is one of the common misconceptions , there are actual research papers on table tennis being presented at the ittf seminars. Just because you are not aware does not make it incomplete. If you go and spend some time learning about it, there are topics like interleaving practice, mixed or variable practice. There are tons of examples on how it works best on beginners , I will add a few citations to what i say. but hey it's easier to come on a forum and give half baked opinions without backing it up with anything

 

[turbozed]

This is one of the common misconceptions , there are actual research papers on table tennis being presented at the ittf seminars. Just because you are not aware does not make it incomplete. If you go and spend some time learning about it, there are topics like interleaving practice, mixed or variable practice. There are tons of examples on how it works best on beginners , I will add a few citations to what i say. but hey it's easier to come on a forum and give half baked opinions without backing it up with anything

These papers about interleaving practice and variable practice are not table tennis specific.

If there's wealth of table tennis research papers please link then instead of referring to them in vague terms.

You stated that the research on table tennis is "not incomplete" which means that research on it has been fully completed. I expect you to be able to link well funded studies with large subject population and well controlled protocols on every aspect of table tennis in your next reply.

 

[palguay]

These papers about interleaving practice and variable practice are not table tennis specific.

If there's wealth of table tennis research papers please link then instead of referring to them in vague terms.

You stated that the research on table tennis is "not incomplete" which means that research on it has been fully completed. I expect you to be able to link well funded studies with large subject population and well controlled protocols on every aspect of table tennis in your next reply.

If you had taken time going through the video , there are a reference to papers on table tennis. If you are capable of doing a google search you will find such papers even better if you have access to sites that publish scientific journals (researchgate is one there are others), you can actually collaborate with the people who conduct these research and get your questions answered. why would I waste my time enlightening you without you doing a bit of work.

 

[IB66]

This is one of the common misconceptions , there are actual research papers on table tennis being presented at the ittf seminars. Just because you are not aware does not make it incomplete. If you go and spend some time learning about it, there are topics like interleaving practice, mixed or variable practice. There are tons of examples on how it works best on beginners , I will add a few citations to what i say. but hey it's easier to come on a forum and give half baked opinions without backing it up with anything

Hi Palguay,

This is the sort of stuff I’m looking for people to post on the Coaching coaches thread I have just started!!!

 

[turbozed]

If you had taken time going through the video , there are a reference to papers on table tennis. If you are capable of doing a google search you will find such papers even better if you have access to sites that publish scientific journals (researchgate is one there are others), you can actually collaborate with the people who conduct these research and get your questions answered. why would I waste my time enlightening you without you doing a bit of work.

I've gone through the video and I've linked people to the same papers before. I've also linked papers to general skill acquisition here.

If you think I'm arguing that there's zero papers available on table tennis, then you're moving the goalposts and are strawmanning me.

Other posters here like zeio do a good job of posting scientific papers here, all of which some of us eagerly gobble up. These are extremely few and far between. And they usually involve studies with subjects with n<20

Again, if you are claiming that the state of table tennis research is complete you should have no problem sharing with us. Two other posters besides myself would like access to your knowlege of this trove of papers that you are aware of. Please don't be coy and share with us. Im afraid you're in a position where just telling me to use Google won't get you out of this.

 

[palguay]

I've gone through the video and I've linked people to the same papers before. I've also linked papers to general skill acquisition here.

If you think I'm arguing that there's zero papers available on table tennis, then you're moving the goalposts and are strawmanning me.

Other posters here like zeio do a good job of posting scientific papers here, all of which some of us eagerly gobble up. These are extremely few and far between. And they usually involve studies with subjects with n<20

Again, if you are claiming that the state of table tennis research is complete you should have no problem sharing with us. Two other posters besides myself would like access to your knowlege of this trove of papers that you are aware of. Please don't be coy and share with us. Im afraid you're in a position where just telling me to use Google won't get you out of this.

lol , you are the one moving goalposts. you have not shown anything that you claim. in the first post you claim you have followed the science and came up with some unbacked opinion, but don't show anything what you have done. I have shown enough things I have done in this thread where I have put in effort to learn something and innovate on the learning. If you can show some effort that you have put in this other than I have been watching from the sideline and I know claim.

I would rather focus my energy on producing things that make the game better.

 

[palguay]

Can you give some links. I am just curious

you seem to have genuine interest to learn, take a look at one such paper https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40798-021-00327-5 . I have it on my computer and will share others with you . One more that I had used in the video https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30317921/

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Signing off by saying we have completely different perscpectives, my last reply to you

I have posted enough content on our channel on research based training, I generally do not like gatekeeping like it is only understandable by experience.

The point of posting to TTD is to get different perscpectives, unlike some coaches who are set that they don't have to ask at particular places, I prefer to talk to different people to get their views even a beginner can sometimes teach experienced people because they look at things in different ways.

I definitely respect brokenball, did you look at his new video on compression of tt ball and rubber, for the sport to go forward we require people who can actually do something not ones who just show videos of their best students and claim they are a good coach. I think there is enough data for people to make their decision on what they want to follow, there is place in the world for all kind of thoughts

well, definitely different perspective.
a pity you only look at surface value when you did that LGL feed to Ma Long BH.
if you could look deeper, than maybe your training could have more value.

I met a guy who trained by youtube when I went to a social place last Sunday.
He had good rallies during warm up.
I asked, where did you learn. He said youtube.

Well, youtube didn't teach him about heavy spin.
you know, it looks the same, but the hidden value is the quality.
Quality is only possible after quantity.
I have done 10s of thousands of FH top spin when I was a kid. Enough that, 2 decades later, today, when I see even half an opportunity, that is my opening attack opportunity. I'm rusty as hell, feet can't move as quick, but my mind can read those oppurtunities and know what needs to be done.

No data, just personal experience from the Q & Q
No beginner would ever be able to talk this.

 

[palguay]

well, definitely different perspective.
a pity you only look at surface value when you did that LGL feed to Ma Long BH.
if you could look deeper, than maybe your training could have more value.

I met a guy who trained by youtube when I went to a social place last Sunday.
He had good rallies during warm up.
I asked, where did you learn. He said youtube.

Well, youtube didn't teach him about heavy spin.
you know, it looks the same, but the hidden value is the quality.
Quality is only possible after quantity.
I have done 10s of thousands of FH top spin when I was a kid. Enough that, 2 decades later, today, when I see even half an opportunity, that is my opening attack opportunity. I'm rusty as hell, feet can't move as quick, but my mind can read those oppurtunities and know what needs to be done.

No data, just personal experience from the Q & Q
No beginner would ever be able to talk this.

I played at national level when I was in juniors, I am currently in the top in 40+ the quality of the shot is more than what you think you see in a 15 second video so it's a pity that with such mindset what your students are missing

 

[turbozed]

lol , you are the one moving goalposts. you have not shown anything that you claim. in the first post you claim you have followed the science and came up with some unbacked opinion, but don't show anything what you have done. I have shown enough things I have done in this thread where I have put in effort to learn something and innovate on the learning. If you can show some effort that you have put in this other than I have been watching from the sideline and I know claim.

I would rather focus my energy on producing things that make the game better.

What goalposts have I moved? I claimed that the status of the research literature on table tennis was incomplete and much worse than that of strength training. These are objectively true statements that you seem to not just disagree with but seem to be personally offended by. I find this bizarre behavior because I've never encountered any science minded person claiming that the research literature on any topic was complete, especially not a niche topic like table tennis.

I don't doubt that you have good intentions. If you are saying you want to contribute to the overall knowledge of the sport, I think that's great. That has little bearing on our disagreement and doesn't really give you a right to engage in bad faith or be petulant. I don't think I've been overly rude to justify that.

If youd still like to share the wealth of research literature that you have access to, please do so and we can both drop any antagonistic tone and move on.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I played at national level when I was in juniors, I am currently in the top in 40+ the quality of the shot is more than what you think you see in a 15 second video so it's a pity that with such mindset what your students are missing

haha, enjoy seeking your ultimate answer to do such a basic thing as a 3rd ball.
learn from Coach Master Gozo, he really does have a good FH smash that is pretty fast

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

move on.

just move on.
cup is full I guess

 

[palguay]

haha, enjoy seeking your ultimate answer to do such a basic thing as a 3rd ball.
learn from Coach Master Gozo, he really does have a good FH smash that is pretty fast

I've have actually made more difference to a lot of table tennis players (maybe in thousands) due to my robot and will continue to scale. you can have all the likes on such forums

 

[palguay]

What goalposts have I moved? I claimed that the status of the research literature on table tennis was incomplete and much worse than that of strength training. These are objectively true statements that you seem to not just disagree with but seem to be personally offended by. I find this bizarre behavior because I've never encountered any science minded person claiming that the research literature on any topic was complete, especially not a niche topic like table tennis.

I don't doubt that you have good intentions. If you are saying you want to contribute to the overall knowledge of the sport, I think that's great. That has little bearing on our disagreement and doesn't really give you a right to engage in bad faith or be petulant. I don't think I've been overly rude to justify that.

If youd still like to share the wealth of research literature that you have access to, please do so and we can both drop any antagonistic tone and move on.

I've been on the internet longer and have engaged with bigger trolls , this is not rude for me

I've posted a couple of links , also since you mentioned huberman let me use that. You know he talks about psychological sigh and the research behind it. a lot of table tennis players are not able to perform well in the match due to anxiety, so now this is an actual way that can be used to benefit the players. Also visualization in hubermanlab is directly applicable, a lot of sports and strength related things matter . so there a couple of science related with actual research papers.

Now guys like you will nitpick and say I mentioned in table tennis but a smart guy will look at something working and see how they can use it in their training.

I think my point is made and back to inventing things to make this game accessible to more people

 

[turbozed]

I've been on the internet longer and have engaged with bigger trolls , this is not rude for me

I've posted a couple of links , also since you mentioned huberman let me use that. You know he talks about psychological sigh and the research behind it. a lot of table tennis players are not able to perform well in the match due to anxiety, so now this is an actual way that can be used to benefit the players. Also visualization in hubermanlab is directly applicable, a lot of sports and strength related things matter . so there a couple of science related with actual research papers.

Now guys like you will nitpick and say I mentioned in table tennis but a smart guy will look at something working and see how they can use it in their training.

I think my point is made and back to inventing things to make this game accessible to more people

People are engaging you in good faith, yet you've found a way to pick a fight with them all the while making yourself seem insufferably egotistical, as you seem to be always steering the conversation towards your merits as a person. To be honest, I don't think anyone is interested in that sort of conversation. I just wanted to see some table tennis articles and it doesn't look like that's happening so I'll see myself out. Good luck with your endeavors.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've have actually made more difference to a lot of table tennis players (maybe in thousands) due to my robot and will continue to scale. you can have all the likes on such forums

I've coached over 1000 kids too.
Well done to you and good luck in figuring out your 3rd ball
I'm out

 

[Metaxa]

If you want to score a point quickly with your third ball, you should start by serving from beyond the service line, above the table. This considerably reduces the playing field and allows you to make optimal use of the third ball. This does not require much practice, after your third ball the game is more than likely still and you can continue practicing on your service and third ball as much as you want.

 

[IB66]

 

[Lazer]

The video start with a vacuum cleaner going in the background

Cheers
L-zr

 

[IB66]

The video start with a vacuum cleaner going in the background

Cheers
L-zr

Nah, that was the emergency power back up charger getting the defib powered up and ready in case of emergency. i was knackered at the end of the video which was an hour into a 2 hour training session!!!!!
Oh to be young again!!!!