Introduction to my YT Channel

[Shuki]

If you have an environment like his and you don't use it, you'd be insane!

Makes me think how good I could be if I had partners who are good and wanted to play with me many hours during the day + a robot. We don't all have that.

Agreed. A damn good table and top of the line robot will be one of the first purchases I make when I get enough room to facilitate it.

 

[ttmonster]

Boogar, I watched a little of your videos. Noticed a few things in general and a few things in specific to the player you were playing.

( you would be the best person to judge of course )

1. I think there is some issue with your reset after you are done serving. He was consistently putting you on time pressure .

are you thinking about what kind of returns you are going to get based on the spin you are putting on the serve ?
are you serving too fast or too short or too high ?

2. Your form is breaking down when you are trying to loop, especially opening loop vs backspin , your shoulder is swinging and your leg or waist is not coordinating with the stroke.
are you swinging too big ?
can you try to find a chopper to loop against or in general ask somebody to give you go long pushes on the third ball on either wing and loop it with a smaller stroke but using legs and waist ? ask the player to block back your opening loop and make sure you put the fifth ball on the table ..

3. In the first few videos , you opponent was serving too high and short, why did you not try flpping those serves, if not flip why not push aggressively ?

4. He obviously does not want to play backhand, why are you not serving long to his backhand corner and try to attack the third ball ? You could also serve short to his forehand and then push the / open long to his backhand ?

5. When he is starting to block , try to vary the placement and spin on your loops , if not anything hit a sidespin loop once in a while , the technique he is using to block your loops probably won't work against sidespin hooked loops ...

Hope it helps, I am sure there are reasons which I cannot see in the video ... just telling you whant went through my mind, based on what I have seen you do in your practice against robots, if you focus on your footwork and practice more random balls and shorten your stroke, I am sure you can beat your opponent ...

 

[Archosaurus]

Boogar, what helped me recently is to go back to the basics. It will increase your confidence and you will easily beat players like Fabio who also do not have a solid game.

First thing you should look at is if you're rotating around your hips, and not gyrating them. You're gyrating them. I used to gyrate them. It's really bad on the back and does nothing for power.

I think this is because of a too wide stance for the level/fitness and too big swing. For whatever reason, the back and hips start moving wherever. That's what ttmonster means with the shoulder swinging and hips not being coordinated. I only really started to grasp it recently myself.

You're also swinging too big, and you might have noticed a pain in your right trapezius muscle, because your head goes down and your shoulders go up in the swing. If you swing hard you will make your neck muscles get stuck. Happened to me, so I know.

If you look at guys like Wang Liqin or Ma Long who have huuuuuuuuuuuuuge swings, their head and shoulders don't move around as much as yours. A smaller swing will help it, because you won't be inclined to lift the shoulder. To compensate you will need to bend your forearm more on the backswing, but it will also make the shot less flat.

I took some pictures with exaggerated features to show my point. Bad to good. They're not taken during a swing, so they're not realistic, but I think you understand my point. Later you can add more legs, make the stance wider and make the swing bigger if you want.

http://imgur.com/a/cdK4o

These are just based on my observations, not a guide on how to swing.

 

[Shuki]

Just keep practicing, things will fall in place, you're on the right track.

 

[Archosaurus]

Just keep practicing, things will fall in place, you're on the right track.

Pretty much. He has things figured out better than I had at his time playing. A lot better.

I just want to bring some attention to the hip and shoulder movement because I've screwed myself up swinging like he is. Very hard to get away from the habit if you don't hammer it down consciously and you'll get injured eventually.

 

[Shuki]

Pretty much. He has things figured out better than I had at his time playing. A lot better.

I just want to bring some attention to the hip and shoulder movement because I've screwed myself up swinging like he is. Very hard to get away from the habit if you don't hammer it down consciously and you'll get injured eventually.

the thing is without a coach guiding you, you will always develop bad habits. They will limit how far you can get but you will stlll be able to get far even with them.

 

[Archosaurus]

the thing is without a coach guiding you, you will always develop bad habits. They will limit how far you can get but you will stlll be able to get far even with them.

Yes, and that's why I think you should try to figure out the simple things yourself and do them right, so you don't get injured at least.

Not having a very good stroke is one thing, but having a serious shoulder injury from repeated strain is another.

 

[Boogar]

Jea i found myself a cool place!

However i can only train there on weekdays late, meaning from 7 pm to 9:30 pm.
Jea we are mostly alone because the player from our club like never train at all ... xD

And the hall closes in summer for about 8 weeks

Thats why i play alot outdoors. It s not that much fun with stone tables and iron nets ( and wind), on the other hand its more social

 

[Boogar]

Boogar, I watched a little of your videos. Noticed a few things in general and a few things in specific to the player you were playing.

( you would be the best person to judge of course )

1. I think there is some issue with your reset after you are done serving. He was consistently putting you on time pressure .

are you thinking about what kind of returns you are going to get based on the spin you are putting on the serve ?
are you serving too fast or too short or too high ?

2. Your form is breaking down when you are trying to loop, especially opening loop vs backspin , your shoulder is swinging and your leg or waist is not coordinating with the stroke.
are you swinging too big ?
can you try to find a chopper to loop against or in general ask somebody to give you go long pushes on the third ball on either wing and loop it with a smaller stroke but using legs and waist ? ask the player to block back your opening loop and make sure you put the fifth ball on the table ..

3. In the first few videos , you opponent was serving too high and short, why did you not try flpping those serves, if not flip why not push aggressively ?

4. He obviously does not want to play backhand, why are you not serving long to his backhand corner and try to attack the third ball ? You could also serve short to his forehand and then push the / open long to his backhand ?

5. When he is starting to block , try to vary the placement and spin on your loops , if not anything hit a sidespin loop once in a while , the technique he is using to block your loops probably won't work against sidespin hooked loops ...

Hope it helps, I am sure there are reasons which I cannot see in the video ... just telling you whant went through my mind, based on what I have seen you do in your practice against robots, if you focus on your footwork and practice more random balls and shorten your stroke, I am sure you can beat your opponent ...

Good points! Thanks for the hints
Jea i noticed aswell that im swining too big and using my shoulder too much. Thats why im trying to get everything compacter like in the video from Sean O'Neill i posted.

And yes the game was kinda linear. Before we played we did some drills and somehow we both fell into that rythm of no short play, no flipping and no backhands. Pretty weird

What do you mean with the reset? I took a closer look and it might be wrong footwork just after resetting?

Unfortunately i dont know any choppers :-/
But i will gladly do a thousand more thirdball attacks against pushes )

 

[ttmonster]

There is something going on after you serve, I am not sure what, may be if I see all the videos ... anyways , see if you can figure out what's going on ... how much time are you spending practicing serves ?

Good points! Thanks for the hints
Jea i noticed aswell that im swining too big and using my shoulder too much. Thats why im trying to get everything compacter like in the video from Sean O'Neill i posted.

And yes the game was kinda linear. Before we played we did some drills and somehow we both fell into that rythm of no short play, no flipping and no backhands. Pretty weird

What do you mean with the reset? I took a closer look and it might be wrong footwork just after resetting?

Unfortunately i dont know any choppers :-/
But i will gladly do a thousand more thirdball attacks against pushes )

 

[Boogar]

There is something going on after you serve, I am not sure what, may be if I see all the videos ... anyways , see if you can figure out what's going on ... how much time are you spending practicing serves ?

Hamm hard to say, just when ever i have no one to hit at the club im doing serves. maybe 15 minutes per session.

 

[ttmonster]

If I were you I would do a mandatory 30 mins before I hit the robots ...

Hamm hard to say, just when ever i have no one to hit at the club im doing serves. maybe 15 minutes per session.

 

[Boogar]

If I were you I would do a mandatory 30 mins before I hit the robots ...

Okay good idea! I really like doing serves. On what should i focus?

I think one thing i need to work on is to learn to know what returns the opponent can make and not get surprised, also learn to capizalize more on the serve.
Because i think im somehow trying to go for winners too much and otherwise just push it back, hence loosing the initiative.

 

[ttmonster]

Right now focus on the basics , is what I would say. focus on spin and height of the serve , there should be spin and the height should be low. You can research out diffeerent tools to do that. Then focus on placement. Once you get the spin, height and placement right. Start visualizing what the different options your opponent might have against a particular serve. If you can find a partner to mimic those returns , you can ask them to mix up a couple of options and give them to you randomly etc. otherwise visualize/shadow your footwork of the third ball after doing your serve during practice.

Once you nail these things down, you can start focusing on deception. Based on my experience, its better to start with pure under, no , top to start with . Helps you gain confidence on the third ball. Then you can start mixing side, otherwise its too much too soon to ask from you anticipation and footwork ...

Okay good idea! I really like doing serves. On what should i focus?

I think one thing i need to work on is to learn to know what returns the opponent can make and not get surprised, also learn to capizalize more on the serve.
Because i think im somehow trying to go for winners too much and otherwise just push it back, hence loosing the initiative.

 

[Archosaurus]

I think it's worth it to practice an hour a day at least, and learn to produce all the spins. Backspin and then back/side is most important to have down, but like ttmonster said start with topspin first.

Don't take it too seriously, serve however the hell you want and experiment. You should have a main serve you work on, though. For me it's standard pendulum. I practice punch, both tomahawks, penhold punch and pendulum etc. It's good to have a lot of serves and variations up your sleeve.

Then again I'm a big fan of the serve and short game. Waldner, Ma Lin and Liu Guoliang are the ones I look up to most on the serve game. You might not be the same, so you might not be so enthusiastic.

Just trust me when I say it's worth it and the fastest way to level up. With good serves, you could probably beat your peers most of the time and half of them would be free points for some time as they adapt to them.

EDIT: Oh yeah, was going to write it but forgot mid post: LEARN TO DEAL WITH THE SPIN YOU GET BACK! A heavy serve will probably come back heavy, a sidespin will probably come back sidespin. Be ready for it and understand it.

 

[Shuki]

I wouldn't say just learn to deal with the serves you get back. Surely be prepared. But also be prepared for a MISREAD serve that comes back uncomfortably to you. Those tend to be tricky for quite a lot of players.

For example, you disguise a top-side spin and they think it's a form of under and chop it. Well not they popped a ball up real high right at the end of your table with heavy backspin making you extremely uncomfrotable. Too uncomfortable to smash, too uncomfortable to loop. But you don't want your follow up to be another chop back. So make sure you're ready for these kind of nonsense returns.

 

[Boogar]

I wouldn't say just learn to deal with the serves you get back. Surely be prepared. But also be prepared for a MISREAD serve that comes back uncomfortably to you. Those tend to be tricky for quite a lot of players.

For example, you disguise a top-side spin and they think it's a form of under and chop it. Well not they popped a ball up real high right at the end of your table with heavy backspin making you extremely uncomfrotable. Too uncomfortable to smash, too uncomfortable to loop. But you don't want your follow up to be another chop back. So make sure you're ready for these kind of nonsense returns.

Jea those strange chops are a pain in the ass.
I think the thing i need to work most on are half long backspin serves with a ton of backspin. ANd also the height of those.

Because i rely too much much on top/side spin serve that i disguise as backspin. It gives me free points all the time but i dont learn quality third ball attacks.

And with backspin serves i can do the ghost serves stuff where its very short and bounces back over the net. However that serve is not rly useable in matches.

 

[ttmonster]

Shuki made a great point about misread serve returns. Just make sure you are in position and when you smash , smash with a firm wrist and compact follow through, you might need to smash twice or thrice but thats okay , all you need is to figure out the correct racquet angle and follow through to smash those high balls .... I was fortunate enough to have a few good lobbers in my original club and they taught me a lot of footwork and smashing by making me run like a dog with their lobs

Now, regarding the other point you are making, IMHO don't change your serves or serving strategy . You definitely need to work on the other serves, the height and what not, and make sure when its half long, its short half long not long half long .... short meaning, it should or at least should appear to bounce right near the edge again ... otherwise it a sure fire way of getting a strong loop back , when you will get in to defensive.

The way I have tried to resolve the third ball opening problem is is to have one regular practice partner, one that is slightly above your level or somebody who can adapt and start returning your best serves. You have to make the sacrifice that you might end up getting beaten by this particular guy more than others but then you will also learn to improve your third ball attacks because he will start getting them back after regularly playing you.
I could not find out another solution to this, just because I also depend a lot on my serves to win me points ... but I also want to have a strong third ball , so that I don't get stuck on the later stages of a match when my opponent starts getting my serves back, this I have seen happening pretty frequently to people who depend on third ball attacks...

Jea those strange chops are a pain in the ass.
I think the thing i need to work most on are half long backspin serves with a ton of backspin. ANd also the height of those.

Because i rely too much much on top/side spin serve that i disguise as backspin. It gives me free points all the time but i dont learn quality third ball attacks.

And with backspin serves i can do the ghost serves stuff where its very short and bounces back over the net. However that serve is not rly useable in matches.

 

[Boogar]

Shuki made a great point about misread serve returns. Just make sure you are in position and when you smash , smash with a firm wrist and compact follow through, you might need to smash twice or thrice but thats okay , all you need is to figure out the correct racquet angle to smash those high chops ....

Now, regarding the other point you are making, IMHO don't change your serves or serving strategy . You definitely need to work on the other serves, the height and what not, and make sure when its half long, its short half long not long half long .... short meaning, it should or at least should appear to bounce right near the edge again ... otherwise it a sure fire way of getting a strong loop back , when you will get in to defensive.

The way I have tried to resolve the third ball opening problem is is to have one regular practice partner, one that is slightly above your level or somebody who can adapt and start returning your best serves. You have to make the sacrifice that you might end up getting beaten by this particular guy more than others but then you will also learn to improve your third ball attacks because he will start getting them back after regularly playing you.
I could not find out another solution to this, just because I also depend a lot on my serves to win me points ... but I also want to have a strong third ball , so that I don't get stuck on the later stages of a match when my opponent starts getting my serves back, this I have seen happening pretty frequently to people who depend on third ball attacks...

I usually play against a penholder. He can return my serves very well, actually too well. And he returns them with swipes that no shakehander would do xD So i cant rly practice "normal" returns.

Ah and for the ready stance after serve issue - i just got my tripod so i can film myself from different angels Maybe we can figure it out then ! However i dont know when i get to play the next time might be next week.

 

[ttmonster]

Don't even talk about the side swipe man !!!! I am in the same boat !!! lets just say , right now , "I love to gripe about side swipe"

I usually play against a penholder. He can return my serves very well, actually too well. And he returns them with swipes that no shakehander would do xD So i cant rly practice "normal" returns.

Ah and for the ready stance after serve issue - i just got my tripod so i can film myself from different angels Maybe we can figure it out then ! However i dont know when i get to play the next time might be next week.