Is Ai Fukuhara a Villain?

[zeio]

Bringing up issues like this is misogyny. Warning you in advance. If a man did this, would you feel the same way?

It's unfortunate the focus of this thread has shifted to misogyny. Let's assume the following.

Yours truly must hate men by starting a thread about Mizutani cheating on his wife.
Yours truly must really hate men by making a post about Maharu Yoshimura cheating on his wife and in so doing had instigated the non-suspecting apacible into joining the cause.
Yours truly must also hate women by posting his view on Fukuhara cheating on her hushand replacing her trans-national XD partner (this is after all a TT forum) and kidnapping her own son bonding with her biological male offspring for an extended period (to hell with the court rulings, gotta stay neutral). Oh, so sly of him to post about her retirement only to turn against her [1, 2].

That's 2 to 1. I guess that makes yours truly a misandrist, for now?

It's also comical how some members far away from the sphere of influence have chosen to question the views (not necessarily judging) of those who are close to it (once again, you can't ignore it), and jumped to the conclusion that they are not in any position to judge.

Here is the deal. Much of the Japanese media and public never approved of the marriage back in 2016 and actually looked down on Chiang, but now a majority of them, while not necessarily in support of Chiang, have turned against Fukuhara. Should we assume they have gone from misandrists to misogynists in several years' time?

Ironically, the overall public opinion in mainland China is actually favorable to Fukuhara, simply because she is a Chinese bride. Yes, they consider her as one of them (she is fluent in Chinese and has been very tactful in dealing with China-Japan relations) and so they stand with her. Should we assume, better yet, praise them for being politically correct?

Who do you think people will find is closer to the truth and more informative?

 

[ttmonster]

It's unfortunate the focus of this thread has shifted to misogyny. Let's assume the following.

Yours truly must hate men by starting a thread about Mizutani cheating on his wife.
Yours truly must really hate men by making a post about Maharu Yoshimura cheating on his wife and in so doing had instigated the non-suspecting apacible into joining the cause.
Yours truly must also hate women by posting his view on Fukuhara cheating on her hushand replacing her trans-national XD partner (this is after all a TT forum) and kidnapping her own son bonding with her biological male offspring for an extended period (to hell with the court rulings, gotta stay neutral). Oh, so sly of him to post about her retirement only to turn against her [1, 2].

That's 2 to 1. I guess that makes yours truly a misandrist, for now?

It's also comical how some members far away from the sphere of influence have chosen to question the views (not necessarily judging) of those who are close to it (once again, you can't ignore it), and jumped to the conclusion that they are not in any position to judge.

Here is the deal. Much of the Japanese media and public never approved of the marriage back in 2016 and actually looked down on Chiang, but now a majority of them, while not necessarily in support of Chiang, have turned against Fukuhara. Should we assume they have gone from misandrists to misogynists in several years' time?

Ironically, the overall public opinion in mainland China is actually favorable to Fukuhara, simply because she is a Chinese bride. Yes, they consider her as one of them (she is fluent in Chinese and has been very tactful in dealing with China-Japan relations) and so they stand with her. Should we assume, better yet, praise them for being politically correct?

Who do you think people will find is closer to the truth and more informative?

You counted wrong, here is the actual score.
Your assertions here :

1. Me or somebody in this thread has claimed that this thread by itself is misogyny ? NOT TRUE
2. People who are geographically closer have better insight into private lives . NOT TRUE
3. Media and public always has the correct opinion . NOT TRUE.



The score is actually 0-3.

 

[zeio]

Another point about quoting tabloid magazine, which I touched on in Mizutani's cheating thread, is that you need to be aware how Japanese get the "real" news.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-best-Japanese-tabloids

However, one interesting phenomenon is their gossip column. If they don’t name name, and say thing like “a well know R&B singer has been arrested for drug　offense” then it is going to break as a legit news two or three days later in other outlets. Also, Tokyo Sports is one of very few outlets where they can get away with reporting happening in yakuza world. Tabloids in Japan are dumping ground of news which can’t be printed in mainstream outlets. If you want to read fake and real “real” news, you can’t miss Tokyo Sports.

Speaking of Tokyo Sports, I notice they've started reporting table tennis much more recently.

 

[NextLevel]

It's unfortunate the focus of this thread has shifted to misogyny. Let's assume the following.

Yours truly must hate men by starting a thread about Mizutani cheating on his wife.
Yours truly must really hate men by making a post about Maharu Yoshimura cheating on his wife and in so doing had instigated the non-suspecting apacible into joining the cause.
Yours truly must also hate women by posting his view on Fukuhara cheating on her hushand replacing her trans-national XD partner (this is after all a TT forum) and kidnapping her own son bonding with her biological male offspring for an extended period (to hell with the court rulings, gotta stay neutral). Oh, so sly of him to post about her retirement only to turn against her [1, 2].

That's 2 to 1. I guess that makes yours truly a misandrist, for now?

It's also comical how some members far away from the sphere of influence have chosen to question the views (not necessarily judging) of those who are close to it (once again, you can't ignore it), and jumped to the conclusion that they are not in any position to judge.

Here is the deal. Much of the Japanese media and public never approved of the marriage back in 2016 and actually looked down on Chiang, but now a majority of them, while not necessarily in support of Chiang, have turned against Fukuhara. Should we assume they have gone from misandrists to misogynists in several years' time?

Ironically, the overall public opinion in mainland China is actually favorable to Fukuhara, simply because she is a Chinese bride. Yes, they consider her as one of them (she is fluent in Chinese and has been very tactful in dealing with China-Japan relations) and so they stand with her. Should we assume, better yet, praise them for being politically correct?

Who do you think people will find is closer to the truth and more informative?

I hope it was clear that I was being a bit facetious with that specific "misogyny" claim.

 

[zeio]

Oh, my post is not directing at you. I quoted it just to get started on addressing the direction the thread is going.

The fact that TensorBackhand started this thread, whether he felt the need or simply out of curiosity, shows the severity of the situation here, as turbozed pointed out early on, let alone the question if Fukuhara prefers the son to the daughter and the possibility that the son is a better bargaining chip.

It's not just about the parents or the kids now. Suppose if I happen to see Fukuhara on the street, should I report it or just stick to my business, given I'm not the worm in her stomach and haven't experienced having a child in my body for 9 months?

 

[TensorBackhand]

I didn't know Mizutani and Yoshimura were in adultery.

Yoshimura looks like a total knucklehead. His way of talking is so annoying, so I'm not too surprised.

Mizutani looks more solid. But I guess his clean image is just fake as well.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

i won’t make predictions about how long it will take to resolve their disputes but I’m ready to take the bet that like mentioned earlier that Fukuhara business will go down downhill from here and she’ll lose her WTT job and we won’t see her on Japanese TV except in the news until this is all resolved and forgotten.

It looks to me that the above happening is the only thing that could make her change her mind.

Yeh and It seems she wants to go to the higher courts it would probably drag the case for at least another 3 years. She can appeal the decision, go to the Highest court after. During the whole process ask for technical delays etc.
That’s how the Justice system works and she is abusing it like many. Very little downside for her and winning time.

I’ve been involved in my life with the judicial system twice , once in France against my former employer and here in Japan against a tenant who unilaterally stopped paying her (very high) rent.

Unfortunately it is my experience the party having more time and money is the one always advantaged by the system

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So, all I am asking is, try and see if you can put yourself in Ai's place and try and sort out some of what she may have had going on when she initiated this. Maybe also see if you can figure out why she still thinks or feels she has the right to sole custody....although, I do think that is harder to sort out.

But some people, when they do something and it seems like a mistake, can't go back on that. Just try and put yourself in Ai's place and see if you can at least have some understanding for what might be her side of things. Thats all.

I've tried to picture why Ai is doing all this, but sadly, her upraising with child-stardom, princess style (it is no secret - she said it herself for the princess style wedding) and getting everything her way probably have gotten her to what is happening now.
This is something very difficult to relate to.

She used to be very busy on western social media.
the moment her love affair broke out, she went into hiding, something against and totally opposite with what she have done for decades prior.
She was the favourite daughter of Japan and Japanese people turned her back on her.
She then went to China/Chinese social media and Chinese fans still adored her and supported her, despite her scandal, compared to her position in Japan and Taiwan.
Till this day, she has not recovered her western social media.

I saw more of "her" from Chiang's post of kids chatting with Ai than Ai posting photos of herself.
Chiang either thought it was a good idea to show the world that kids still had a mom, or wanted to create an image of him being the good guy - I don't know, but the fact was, those photos did surface on the internet and kids did chat with mom. So, I can't think that Chiang hid the kids from Ai to cause Ai to "take one back and fear loosing it back to Chiang".

As far as I know, Ai could of returned to Taiwan during the time post divorce and does have custody rights to both kids (she hasn't seen her daugther in person for 1 year now). She choose not to be in Taiwan, maybe because of Taiwan's media backlash, but Ai's trip to Taiwan last July (the one she took the son back), Chiang kept it a secret and didn't leak to give Ai a hard time at the airport.

Something happened when Ai visit Taiwan, Chiang delivered the son to Ai at the airport, Ai didn't leave the airport and took the next flight back
Ai took the son back to Japan for "summer vocation holiday" as agreed with by Chiang and 1 week later Chiang lost total contact with Ai and the son. That 1 week, things were "still normal" in terms of video calling.
And during those few days that Chiang lost contact with his son, was also when Chiang found out that Ai has launched an application to have full custody of the son in the Japanese court (of which the application has not been granted based on 20 July 2023 court decision).

Maybe it might not be Ai and her thought process, maybe she was advised to apply full custody to the son and risk further damage with Chiang by her legal team or someone else. We don't know, but she isn't alone in this, she has a husband and still has a pr team and legal team.

Its 2 weeks now since 20 July 2023, so, I'm struggling to see or understand Ai's side of the game.
She is wealthy enough to visit Taiwan every month or bi-monthly and spend time with the daughter.
But she choose to not enter Taiwan (staying at the airport to me was just that).

If there was some problems in Taiwan with Chiang, she does have the ability to use the law and media to be on her side and make a protective wall and to live normally amid her WTT duties and like what most parents would do with divorced kids and sharing custody and living in different cities.

But maybe she couldn't accept the result of the Taiwanese court's joint custody? maybe it is a failure to her, where she would always get everything she wanted since a kid? I don't know, as obviously she is still fighting in the Taiwanese court too.

So, I can't seem to figure out why Ai did what she did, but then, I did not encounter a sharp drop from hero to zero and pretty much loosing one thing that has been her advantage over 90% of her life - her fame.

Her legal team should know that if you are in court, then leave it to the court to do things.
Don't do things yourself, as that would just jeopardize your standing in the entire case.
I mean, what Ai did now, do you think Taiwan's court will ignore, if there is still a pending custody battle on the son and the daugther? Ai has legal adviser, so it is very difficult to put yourself in the shoe of Ai, as a lot of things don't make sense to me.

Right now Ai has undeemeded the order of a Japanese court and her legal team has zero comment on this matter to the media. It would make sense the legal team has replied to Chiang and the court, but as of 27 July, Chiang's legal team had denied Ai's team made contact with them in relation to the court order. I would choose to believe Chiang's team have no reason to lie about it.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

i won’t make predictions about how long it will take to resolve their disputes but I’m ready to take the bet that like mentioned earlier that Fukuhara business will go down downhill from here and she’ll lose her WTT job and we won’t see her on Japanese TV except in the news until this is all resolved and forgotten.

It looks to me that the above happening is the only thing that could make her change her mind.

Yeh and It seems she wants to go to the higher courts it would probably drag the case for at least another 3 years. She can appeal the decision, go to the Highest court after. During the whole process ask for technical delays etc.
That’s how the Justice system works and she is abusing it like many. Very little downside for her and winning time.

I’ve been involved in my life with the judicial system twice , once in France against my former employer and here in Japan against a tenant who unilaterally stopped paying her (very high) rent.

Unfortunately it is my experience the party having more time and money is the one always advantaged by the system

Delay tactics seems to be the way in many countries, so I don't feel this is unique to Japan.
Only person winning is those getting paid for a longer court trial.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

if the children are always at risk of going to sole custody of the mom, who can freely divorce after a couple years of marriage because she's bored or finds better away, there would no more point to care of children for men. Raising young children and getting attached to them would be a very bad risk/reward bet.

and thats how its become. Now look at which countries and group of people are producing more children, whether they're in their home country or moved to new countries and who is "winning" the Darwinian race.

If fake men and women decide that only moms have rights because they are the ones bearing the children, we are heading into dystopia in some not too far future.

---
btw i pity my younger bro who's living in the US and went thru a painful divorce. Money aside, he was forced to exile himself near his ex parents in law where she lives now, far from the big metropolis where he used to live and work. Basically he sacrificed his career and everything to have a chance to see his 3 kids. If not, looks like the judge would have denied him joint custody.

 

[NextLevel]

All I would say is, rather than deciding who is right and wrong, and whether someone is better or worse in this situation....try and see things from Ai's perspective and think of some real and legitimate reasons that might drive someone to something that, would otherwise seem dangerous or irresponsible.

Many parents who don't have custody of their children or visitation rights (men and women) do end up committing seemingly abhorrent acts.

Rather than blaming either parent, rather than talking about what the law says, all I am asking is for you to try and think about some of the range of things that could have really been going on mentally and emotionally for Ai when she took her son.

I do remember, when my kid was 14-15, a close friend, her parents were going through a particularly nasty divorce, at some point the father took the son and the mom and the daughter were freaking out thinking of all the things that could have happened to him.

I know for a fact the father did not mean to hurt the kid or the sister. I know there was a lot between him and his wife. But I don't think he did it to hurt her either. He just wanted to see his kids and he took the one he was able to. It is true, the kid was back home the next day. But the father was out of his mind wanting to see the kid and that is a hard place to be.

So, all I am asking is, try and see if you can put yourself in Ai's place and try and sort out some of what she may have had going on when she initiated this. Maybe also see if you can figure out why she still thinks or feels she has the right to sole custody....although, I do think that is harder to sort out.

But some people, when they do something and it seems like a mistake, can't go back on that. Just try and put yourself in Ai's place and see if you can at least have some understanding for what might be her side of things. Thats all.

Carl,

No one ever needs to explain why someone is acting in their selfish interests - no normal human being finds that hard to understand. What we need to explain is why they are doing this when there are consequences that involve hurting others and potentially themselves. Even if we are all men, we all understand that Ai wants to be with and keep her son on some level. That's easy to explain, and it is a bit weird hearing people say that people who are criticizing Ai don't get this.

The real question is what so far explains the desire to deny the father access to his child. Why is she breaking the law? Other than general ideas that we don't know the whole story, nothing has come close to being the kind of answer that would satisfy most people as making Ai's behavior justifiable. If we know Chiang was abusive to mother and/or child, most/all of us would have a very different opinion of the whole issue.

This is a public forum and I have a public identity so no need to get too graphic. But in private conversation, we can discuss some of the crazy things that happen in this world. Marriage is hard. Divorce is hard on kids. To be honest, I find the Japanese approach of granting a single parent custody very interesting, I wonder what drove that kind of decision, as I am openminded to understanding the logic behind almost anything.

But yeah, parents want to have access to their children when they love their children. How that gives a parent the right to kidnap a child from another parent, I am not sure. And I have no difficulty understand why a parent might kidnap a child. I have difficulty understanding why it is a good thing based on any of the reasons I have heard so far.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Yeah. I am not saying it is a good thing. I am just saying, sometimes, when emotional, parents do crazy things that are hard to rationalize.

It is true, I don't see any reason why, after so much time, this is still going on and why it would only be the son.

I was just trying to get you guys to have some compassion for Ai even if what she is doing is not sane or good for anyone involved including her.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yeah. I am not saying it is a good thing. I am just saying, sometimes, when emotional, parents do crazy things that are hard to rationalize.

It is true, I don't see any reason why, after so much time, this is still going on and why it would only be the son.

I was just trying to get you guys to have some compassion for Ai even if what she is doing is not sane or good for anyone involved including her.

she choose to hide the truth from her fans, the people that supported her all the years.
If she didn't get those millions of people she is a nobody.
Now things don't go her way, she abandoned them and choose not to speak with them, but choose to go overseas (to China) and seek loving fans there instead.

It is difficult to have compassion for Ai who chooses to not speak out and I understand some peoples logic that why should Ai speak out...well since, she owes her Japanese fans some answers surely?
I feel her PR management has been terrible since the love affair.
She isn't the first and won't be the last to have one, people should learn to just cope with it better and if they can't, then, don't choose to become a star, or continue to be one and complain when things don't go your way with the media

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I've missed a few episodes about Ai's private life...

She is not living in Japan anymore but China ?
She already got re-married ? with a Chinese man ? a Japanese man ?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've missed a few episodes about Ai's private life...

She is not living in Japan anymore but China ?
She already got re-married ? with a Chinese man ? a Japanese man ?

I also don't, but read about Japanese media saying she had married "Mr X"
The married man she had an affair with. And I think is a Japanese man.
There was also leaked photos of her continuing to see Mr X post the divorce

Ai did spend a lot of time in China at first to whether the storm and when she was announced as WTT Japan GM, she seem to be in Japan most of the time.
All this happened inside the past 2 years and a bit.
so she already moved on very quickly

The only "window" for her to talk to the world is her weibo account

Sina Visitor System

weibo.com

She did comment on the press conference on 27 July and you can read of the Chinese fans who support her, and the ones who don't.
I would imagine all parties would have read that by now, so I didn't post it previously.

 

[zeio]

after 7 pages of this thread, i think we now all agree

And you had to pick 墮姬/Daki, literally "the fallen princess". Daki also happens to be a homonym for 唾棄.

 

[NDH]

OK, perhaps I'm the odd one out here, but why has this topic not only been started in the first place, but managed to dominate the forum for the majority of the week to the tune of (as of right now), 9 whole pages!!

I get there is a very loose connection to Table Tennis here, but I personally find this type of thread to be incredibly nauseating.

"Just don't look at it"

"Keep scrolling you fool"

Yeah, yeah, I know the drill.

But c'mon guys - This just gives the forum a real bad look, and some of the opinions/comments are just not good for the vibe of what is supposed to be an inclusive Table Tennis forum.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Props to NDH he at least is on the forum to help others rather than boost his own ego.

With great trepidation (in view of the potential for more insincere clickbait posts from the usual actors):-

Ai Fukuhara is a Japanese National and resident
Chiang is a Taiwanese National and resident

Taking a practical common sense long view this issue would be settled with visitation rights.
However the fact that they are no longer living in the same country, let alone the same city, and the relevant countries have different policies towards whether father or mother should be the default custodian of the children, means that wherever the children end up the parents on both sides will potentially suffer distress when the children are located in the opposing domicile. Hopefully both parents will move toward resolving this problem.
It's just a fact that children can not be simultaneously living in 2 places.
its just a fact that mothers suffer special emotional distress when the link to their flesh and blood is threatened
its just a fact that fathers suffer too.
Its also a fact that trying to solve such issues by obscure forum members talking about "cheating" and blame is not constructive towards an eventual visitational solution.

Its also very plain that there are several actors in this thread are not genuinely sympathetic towards the kids or mother or husband, but rather, they are concerned to maintain their right of free speech even when they are exploiting the unhappiness of kids and parents.
I would say that free speech is a valuable treasure, but is devalued when its use is tarnished by its use to satisfy an egotistical. need for attention. THOSE FORUM MEMBERS WILL DENY IT WITH WORDS THAT THEY THINK ARE CLEVER, BUT IN THE END IT IS THEIR EARLIER WORDS THAT SHOW THEM UP FOR WHO THEY REALLY ARE.

 

[zeio]

You counted wrong, here is the actual score.
Your assertions here :

1. Me or somebody in this thread has claimed that this thread by itself is misogyny ? NOT TRUE
2. People who are geographically closer have better insight into private lives . NOT TRUE
3. Media and public always has the correct opinion . NOT TRUE.



The score is actually 0-3.

I went back to check for the first instance of the term "misogyny" and guess who raised it first?

Again, assume the following scenario, if you see Fukuhara on the street:
1. You choose to respect the court's decision and tip her off. Does that make you an enemy of women?
2. You choose to empathize with her and pretend she is a lookalike. Does that make you an enemy of men?

 

[NextLevel]

OK, perhaps I'm the odd one out here, but why has this topic not only been started in the first place, but managed to dominate the forum for the majority of the week to the tune of (as of right now), 9 whole pages!!

I get there is a very loose connection to Table Tennis here, but I personally find this type of thread to be incredibly nauseating.

"Just don't look at it"

"Keep scrolling you fool"

Yeah, yeah, I know the drill.

But c'mon guys - This just gives the forum a real bad look, and some of the opinions/comments are just not good for the vibe of what is supposed to be an inclusive Table Tennis forum.

How many people do you think have left TTD becauss of this "bad look"? And would your opinion change if other TT forums in Asia or Australia considered this a bigger topic?