Is Ai Fukuhara a Villain?

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Listen, I don't want to believe that Fukuhara did all of this, but in the end, it's yet another reminder that we shouldn't idolize athletes. I also have to remind myself that we should be slow to condemn and quick to understand - nice, charming people can make big mistakes or have terrible judgment or have mental illness.

One of Taiwan's investigative journalism shows (around the time of the affair/divorce) actually went to dig a lot of dirt from Japan and Ai's prior relationships (which even linked her to Wang Liqin at one time, all of them are tall). Now, I don't believe everything I see there, but what they did point out was Ai has always been a princess in Japan and China and showed many examples during her young childhood live, and growing up.
She was basically untouchable (think hollywood now)

Chiang was the total opposite, coming from an average family and did not have red carpet treatment.
I think the differences in them - layman with royalty was just too great.

Ai always got what she wanted and Chiang, had a smooth career until his basically never recover career ending injury. He was Taiwan's future number 1 since junior level, beating all of Chiang Peng Lung and Chuan's records (ranked as high as number 2 in seniors) behind Chuang and Chen (CCA) and was very close to replace Chuang as Taiwan's number 1 at the age of 24 or so (when he actually surpassed CCA). Rememer that both Chuang and CCY was at they peak then. So Chiang went from almost (Taiwanese) stardom to zero.
 
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I never said you lied, I said you already decided. You are the one who started this by suggesting that I did not see your one hour video of Chiang's lawyers .
why I said you didn't watch the video? Did you even read my reply?

Because you said this:

Its funny nobody here is considering the possibility that because Japan bans dual custody may be this course of action is what Ai's lawyer might have asked her to pursue in the hopes of getting their version of fair judgement in Taiwanese court.

So I said to you, she did that 1 year ago already...
lol
 
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Unless one of the parties irrefutable evidence of criminal activity like domestic abuse, both sides are victims and we should just leave it at that instead of calling one of them villain.

Next step for Chiang is to force the execution of court order and non compliance will lead to a criminal activity for Ai
(as per the video lol)
Btw, I didn't call any one vilian, so you need to target OP (he went EJ by the looks of things)
 
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Next step for Chiang is to force the execution of court order and non compliance will lead to a criminal activity for Ai
(as per the video lol)
Btw, I didn't call any one vilian, so you need to target OP (he went EJ by the looks of things)
Did I say you called her villain ? Don’t put words in my mouth Tony. As for your previous posts the next logical step for me is to explain to you english grammar and what is the differenrnce between past tense and present continuous which neither you nor I will enjoy . So why don’t you stay put where you are and I will stay where I am in this whole argument.

Well on second thoughts I am sure you in your infinite wisdom will find a way to misinterpret what i said above … good luck !
 
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Did I say you called her villain ? Don’t put words in my mouth Tony. As for your previous posts the next logical step for me is to explain to you english grammar and what is the differenrncw between past tense and present continuous which neither you nor I will enjoy . So why don’t you stay put where you are and I will stay where I am in this whole argument.
I didn't say you said I call her a villain, I just declared to you I didn't... what made you misread something so plain and simple?
oh, English is not my first language if you want to be technical. Is English your mother tongue?

As I said, next is for the court to action by Chiang team request and see what Ai will come up with.
I don't believe Ai will sacrifice her mom and Japan to flee to Singapore.
Liu Guoliang will also have something to think about with Ai as a high level representative of WTT
 
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Next step for Chiang is to force the execution of court order and non compliance will lead to a criminal activity for Ai
(as per the video lol)
Btw, I didn't call any one vilian, so you need to target OP (he went EJ by the looks of things)
Yeah, some people seem to be hung up on the "villain" thing. Hence my post about clickbait titles. That said, I have no problem with someone taking sides in this based on what is publicly available. And don't get me wrong, may Ai made a mistake in marrying the guy, or even getting married at all. But part of the point of the law is that many people if allowed will try to get their own way without regard for the interests and feelings of others. The law is our best attempt to find balance to those things, even if it isn't always fair. Other than deferring to our ignorance, no one has explained what Chiang actually did that makes him deserving of his wife (who left him after an affair) to prevent him from seeing his son. If it was the other way round, I wonder whether people would be saying that we need to wait for the information. The privacy angle I get, but sometimes, you can't fight people with resources without putting social pressure on them because their resources enable them to get away with stuff that most of us would get arrested for.
 
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Yeah, some people seem to be hung up on the "villain" thing. Hence my post about clickbait titles. That said, I have no problem with someone taking sides in this based on what is publicly available. And don't get me wrong, may Ai made a mistake in marrying the guy, or even getting married at all. But part of the point of the law is that many people if allowed will try to get their own way without regard for the interests and feelings of others. The law is our best attempt to find balance to those things, even if it isn't always fair. Other than deferring to our ignorance, no one has explained what Chiang actually did that makes him deserving of his wife (who left him after an affair) to prevent him from seeing his son. If it was the other way round, I wonder whether people would be saying that we need to wait for the information. The privacy angle I get, but sometimes, you can't fight people with resources without putting social pressure on them because their resources enable them to get away with stuff that most of us would get arrested for.

I am not close to Chiang, but close enough.
I spoke to Chiang's teammates, Chiang is a very soft guy. (now that doesn't mean he can't be a villain)

Ai's mom seem to like Chiang and continued to stay with him and the kids when Ai was getting attacked left right and centre by her fans amid her love affair being exposed. It wasn't a few days, it was months. (and yes, I know people who visits the Chiang and Ai's mom)

There was allegations made by Ai through her friend (a whole 3rd party media leak story) that Chiang was mentally abusive or something in that regards. Hence Ai was emotional non stable and had to "talk" with her good male friend, and they ended up sleeping in 2 different rooms in hotels and her home and somehow have become husband and wife now. Till this day, according to Ai, she didn't sleep with the guy then.

I know divorce is ugly and people will always find higher courts or different court to start a new fight. It has been going on forever - especially if you have the cash.

I have never talked so much about Chiang's challenges over the past 2.5 years (until you dragged me into it lol)
But my issue is and what disguise me is "not seeing his son", not even through a video call.

If Chiang is a villain, court didn't' deny Chiang rights to a video call.
This to me is tough to understand and even if a spouse ends up in jail, do you as the other parent, say, you don't have a dad? or don't visit your dad? or what ever logic some could have.... that is beyond me.
Chiang has not been accused or proven a villain inside the past 2.5 years.

The kid cannot have a phone for ever? He will never find out from his school peers on - hey your dad is looking for you? or your dad is a villain? Some things are just beyond the human values I have been bought up with.

I just hope Chiang don't need to wait weeks or months for the Japanese court to execute the forcing of the court order dated 20 July 2023. It's already 2 weeks now...
Ai's team can say, they do not agree to the court order and want to fight it in a higher court and would not respond, or something like that... but 2 weeks now, they haven't said anything, but to say, Chiang shouldn't have a press conference as Mar 2023 judge in Taiwan said so.. lawyer like response.

Chiang's team has admitted this is a tough battle for Chiang to win (especially Ai has the resources to move the son to different countries), and Chiang has already accepted there is a huge chance he will never see his son again, but wants to continue trying.

I am grateful, I am not in such challenges and I can see my kids every day
 
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The moral of the whole story is that once again we can link pips usage to mental illness
hahaha

well, most pips users I know are okay.
however, there is one girl that is very very very unstable.
you can see her mood during her training, very obviously.

She is so unique that even the head coach has never seen something so special in his 35 years of coaching.
unique in she gets emotional damaged with the pettiest of things.

Last week, another coach said, find your own training partner.
she didn't have any one who wants to train with her.
then there was another that had no one.
so coach said, okay, then the 2 of you train together then (since you have no partner).
She was pissed and said, you said I can choose my own..... and kindof wasted her teammates time for training with a pissed off attitude and can't keep the ball on.

The 3 of us coaches (was confused how such activity can trigger her response).
I actually told the coach to say, take her training partner away and I will train with the normal one and leave emotional one to train on her own lol. I mean, she and the other was standing there, while everyone else went to find a table (in pairs). I would of imagine she will be grateful that one of the coaches arranged her a partner and saved her the embarrassment of not able to find one. (to her credit, she has 2 friends, but her 2 mates wanted to train with each other and they can't be 3 per table as instructed by the coach)

well 99.9% of pips I know are very normal.... so I must declare that lol
 
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I didn't say you said I call her a villain, I just declared to you I didn't... what made you misread something so plain and simple?
oh, English is not my first language if you want to be technical. Is English your mother tongue?

As I said, next is for the court to action by Chiang team request and see what Ai will come up with.
I don't believe Ai will sacrifice her mom and Japan to flee to Singapore.
Liu Guoliang will also have something to think about with Ai as a high level representative of WTT
Does it matter whether it is my mother tongue, there are plenty of native enlish speakers who know nothing of grammar and use wrong grammar. What I referred to is that you misinterpreted my assertion that "Fukuhara will follow what her lawyers tell her to" by saying she already has. The argument makes zero sense.

All your posts clearly show that you sympathize with Chiang , whatever be the reason. And so does Next Level.

The problem lies in that , the problem is that you guys have already decided who is wrong and who is right and nitpicking every information available to fit your narrative. It should be the other way round . We can only know who is wrong and who is right if every little information comes out which never will. you will only hear from "Chiang's friends" what a nice guy he is , you will hear from haters that Ai Fukuhara is has millions and Chiang has a humble background and this is a rich girl vs poor guy drama and you will continue building your narrative the way it has in this thread so far.

In a fair society even a criminal gets fair representation in court and is called "a victim" or "a suspect" till they are proven guilty . You guys have already tarred and feathered her...
 
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The moral of the whole story is that once again we can link pips usage to mental illness
That is such a tasteless joke but the reactions have me laughing really hard. Harder than I have laughed in a while.
 
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The problem lies in that , the problem is that you guys have already decided who is wrong and who is right and nitpicking every information available to fit your narrative.

My only narrative is the Japanese court order.
Something that you seem to fail to agree that exists

the court order is the strongest and everything else I typed is for entertainment, of which the court order is what I have been talking about since my interaction with you for the first few words, to ask, have you watched the video? lol (you agree?)

how do you see the court order? do you see there is a possibility that Chiang made it up?
 
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My only narrative is the Japanese court order.
Something that you seem to fail to agree that exists

the court order is the strongest and everything else I typed is for entertainment, of which the court order is what I have been talking about since my interaction with you for the first few words, to ask, have you watched the video? lol (you agree?)

how do you see the court order? do you see there is a possibility that Chiang made it up?
Well you have clearly not read what I have written earlier, unlike you I don't blame you because this thread is pretty long. Why should I fail to agree that a court order exists , because that is a fact.

The additional context that you need to consider here is that Japan does not encourage shared custody . Hence as per the court order Ai does not have custody .

AI in her interests is trying to highlight that the case is still sub judice in Taiwan , which she should .

We DO NOT know what actually happened between them to reach where they are, we DO NOT know who is more harmful to the child's well being, and most likely never will. Because thats pretty much how things are when it comes to people's private lives.

A court order is exactly what the name suggests, based on Japanese law and information and arguments presented to them a judge or jury has decided Chiang should have the custody. ITs not a criminal case and the judgement does not paint somebody as guilty or a villain. Laws differ from country to country and the exact same case can have a different outcome in a different country.


My opposition is to you guys painting one party as guilty and painting the other as a victim.
 
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Does it matter whether it is my mother tongue, there are plenty of native enlish speakers who know nothing of grammar and use wrong grammar. What I referred to is that you misinterpreted my assertion that "Fukuhara will follow what her lawyers tell her to" by saying she already has. The argument makes zero sense.

All your posts clearly show that you sympathize with Chiang , whatever be the reason. And so does Next Level.

The problem lies in that , the problem is that you guys have already decided who is wrong and who is right and nitpicking every information available to fit your narrative. It should be the other way round . We can only know who is wrong and who is right if every little information comes out which never will. you will only hear from "Chiang's friends" what a nice guy he is , you will hear from haters that Ai Fukuhara is has millions and Chiang has a humble background and this is a rich girl vs poor guy drama and you will continue building your narrative the way it has in this thread so far.

In a fair society even a criminal gets fair representation in court and is called "a victim" or "a suspect" till they are proven guilty . You guys have already tarred and feathered her...
Again, the law has spoken - courts have made judgments. In favor of Chiang. I know the law means little to you in estimating moral standing but while I don't think it is perfect, I think it is important - I follow laws I do not like everyday. You keep writing like she hasn't been heard in court or given an opportunity to be. And that she cant explain herself if that was the issue.

What exactly Chiang has done to merit being kept away from his son? Trust me, the idea that Chiang might have turned Ai off over time is plausible. Women tend not to marry down. Sustaining romance when contempt in either direction comes into play is exceeding difficult. Marriage is extremely hard when two individuals are not on the same page.

Whether any of this justifies keeping children away from their parents in any circumstances is not clear to me since there is no real abuse on the record. Maybe Ai thinks the best course of action is to have each child in single custody. If that is her expressed opinion, my view of the issue would change a bit but whether that means the child should not be allowed to see his father is rough.

Because any view of what AI is doing that justifies it requires you to think that she is doing something calculated to protect her son (but weirdly enough not her daughter).
 
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Again, the law has spoken - courts have made judgments. In favor of Chiang. I know the law means little to you in estimating moral standing but while I don't think it is perfect, I think it is important - I follow laws I do not like everyday. You keep writing like she hasn't been heard in court or given an opportunity to be. And that she cant explain herself if that was the issue.

What exactly Chiang has done to merit being kept away from his son? Trust me, the idea that Chiang might have turned Ai off over time is plausible. Women tend not to marry down. Sustaining romance when contempt in either direction comes into play is exceeding difficult. Marriage is extremely hard when two individuals are not on the same page.

Whether any of this justifies keeping children away from their parents in any circumstances is not clear to me since there is no real abuse on the record. Maybe Ai thinks the best course of action is to have each child in single custody. If that is her expressed opinion, my view of the issue would change a bit but whether that means the child should not be allowed to see his father is rough.

Because any view of what AI is doing that justifies it requires you to think that she is doing something calculated to protect her son (but weirdly enough not her daughter).
Like you correctly said, there is a lot of unknown and most likely it will remain that way since this is a private matter and its a complicated matter because its a marriage and as you pointed out the dynamics can be overtly complex , which even the involved parties may not be consciously aware as there are a lot of emotions involved.
But thats what I have been trying to say all along., .

May be I was not clear but I was not arguing that Ai did not get appropriate representation in the Japanese court. However, some of the laws in conservative societies are so antiquated I don't know what the arguments in the court was and how it came to the decision it did. That was why I brought up the historical misogyny in Japan and alluded that most likely it could have affected the outcome, again this is pure guess so I won't bet on it. But you look overall at the BBC article I showed , its entirely possible. Can you imagine a sports minister in modern society joking that a woman should dress up as pig because she is overweight ?
 
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Like you correctly said, there is a lot of unknown and most likely it will remain that way since this is a private matter and its a complicated matter because its a marriage and as you pointed out the dynamics can be overtly complex , which even the involved parties may not be consciously aware as there are a lot of emotions involved.
But thats what I have been trying to say all along., .

May be I was not clear but I was not arguing that Ai did not get appropriate representation in the Japanese court. However, some of the laws in conservative societies are so antiquated I don't know what the arguments in the court was and how it came to the decision it did. That was why I brought up the historical misogyny in Japan and alluded that most likely it could have affected the outcome, again this is pure guess so I won't bet on it. But you look overall at the BBC article I showed , its entirely possible. Can you imagine a sports minister in modern society joking that a woman should dress up as pig because she is overweight ?
Yes, it is definitely rude to make fun of a woman's appearance in modern discourse, especially when a man does it, and so publicly too. Though I wonder what would have happened if an equally powerful woman was so rude. The things women use to describe other women's appearances make men look like saints.

Since women win the vast majority of custody cases in Japan and Japan is conservatively xenophobic, I think the direction in which your pure guess would point is puzzling, but at least you admit it is a pure guess. It is far more likely that something about international law and recognizing international decisions tied their hands, and that Ai's gambit didn't pay off - she probably thought she could get it overturned in Japan. Maybe she thought splitting the children 50-50 was fair - but that is not for her to decide.

Yes, there is a lot of unknown, but no one needs to know my opinion of taxation for me to pay my taxes. No one needs to know Ai Fukuhara's feelings about divorce to know she is refusing to follow what the courts ordered for custody.
 
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Yes, it is definitely rude to make fun of a woman's appearance in modern discourse, especially when a man does it, and so publicly too. Though I wonder what would have happened if an equally powerful woman was so rude. The things women use to describe other women's appearances make men look like saints.

Since women win the vast majority of custody cases in Japan and Japan is conservatively xenophobic, I think the direction in which your pure guess would point is puzzling, but at least you admit it is a pure guess. It is far more likely that something about international law and recognizing international decisions tied their hands, and that Ai's gambit didn't pay off - she probably thought she could get it overturned in Japan. Maybe she thought splitting the children 50-50 was fair - but that is not for her to decide.

Yes, there is a lot of unknown, but no one needs to know my opinion of taxation for me to pay my taxes. No one needs to know Ai Fukuhara's feelings about divorce to know she is refusing to follow what the courts ordered for custody.
To your point, the court order was to return the child immediately (presumably on the basis of the prior Taiwanese joint custody arrangement).

If you were Ai's (assuredly top notch) attorneys and the best response you can muster is "don't talk about the situation publicly", then you probably don't have much going for you.

I can't see this ending well now.

For Ai, this will likely irrevocably harm her future in Japan - you can recover from the affair given the close-knit Japanese entertainment industry (see Jun Mizutani), but I don't think you can really recover from an allegation of child abduction. I wouldn't be surprised if she tilts entirely to China after this given that her standing among Chinese netizens seems relatively undisturbed.

For Chiang, I know what he said in the press conference, but gosh, how do you preserve a joint custody arrangement after something like this? If his allegations are true, I wouldn't be surprised he tries (successfully) to reset the custody rights.

There are no winners here - this is the ping pong equivalent of swinging for the ball, letting the paddle fly, hitting multiple bystanders (and then arguing with the ref). I feel terrible for the kids...
 
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I wonder what the little kid will think of his mom in 15 or 20 years, she who deprived him of a father.
Speak of the devil. The story of Fuka, a Japanese American, who got kidnapped along with her brother by her mom and moved with her stepdad to America and abused throughout her childhood while being told her biological dad had abandoned them (note: not judging, just rephrasing what she stated), has been picked up by the local news here.

 
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All I would say is, rather than deciding who is right and wrong, and whether someone is better or worse in this situation....try and see things from Ai's perspective and think of some real and legitimate reasons that might drive someone to something that, would otherwise seem dangerous or irresponsible.

Many parents who don't have custody of their children or visitation rights (men and women) do end up committing seemingly abhorrent acts.

Rather than blaming either parent, rather than talking about what the law says, all I am asking is for you to try and think about some of the range of things that could have really been going on mentally and emotionally for Ai when she took her son.

I do remember, when my kid was 14-15, a close friend, her parents were going through a particularly nasty divorce, at some point the father took the son and the mom and the daughter were freaking out thinking of all the things that could have happened to him.

I know for a fact the father did not mean to hurt the kid or the sister. I know there was a lot between him and his wife. But I don't think he did it to hurt her either. He just wanted to see his kids and he took the one he was able to. It is true, the kid was back home the next day. But the father was out of his mind wanting to see the kid and that is a hard place to be.

So, all I am asking is, try and see if you can put yourself in Ai's place and try and sort out some of what she may have had going on when she initiated this. Maybe also see if you can figure out why she still thinks or feels she has the right to sole custody....although, I do think that is harder to sort out.

But some people, when they do something and it seems like a mistake, can't go back on that. Just try and put yourself in Ai's place and see if you can at least have some understanding for what might be her side of things. Thats all.
 
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