Is ma long the GOAT ?

[ttmonster]

btw, I am feeling insulted that that you can call such a respected person in this forum insecure and ridiculous ... much unlike how you were taking offense to my "supposedly twisting your words" , this is a direct personal insult ... can you please apologize to Carl asap ? ... I am demanding a public apology here even if UpSideDownCarl is either busy or letting it slide !

You don't know me so stop with your assumptions, it makes you look insecure and ridiculous to be honest.

 

[NextLevel]

It's trolling to invent stories like the ball made Ma Long what he is today. That is completely baseless. And you would know this if you followed what happened. It's not trolling to constantly having to explain this like I'm arguing with flat-earthers.

I know the ball didn't make Ma Long a great player - causality is not that simple.

But I also do not think it is purely a coincidence that his backhand improved and his titles came after the introduction of the plastic ball. It isn't overwhelming as a factor, but I think it is clearly a factor. The plastic ball reduced the potency of backhand openers.

 

[NextLevel]

Round, and round, and round she goes

Hahahaha...

 

[ttmonster]

What is your rating in Sweeden , how long have you been playing and what your level ... and don't give us that crap about FH-FH hits ... lets talk about real matches. If you are at any decent level of playing table tennis you would know how much ball affects the game ... you are not arguing with "flat earthers" .. which I am taking a very big personal insult to by the way and demand and immediate apology ... I feel you are the one sitting inside a well and croaking ..

It's trolling to invent stories like the ball made Ma Long what he is today. That is completely baseless. And you would know this if you followed what happened. It's not trolling to constantly having to explain this like I'm arguing with flat-earthers.

 

[NextLevel]

In China, National Games, yes.
If one wins OG+WTTC+WC+National Games, he/she is called 全满贯 full Grand Slam winner.

Good to know. We need to move to China.

 

[rainneverever]

No offense. Again if you don't agree with pro players and coaches on their opinions, why bother compare your own levels of TT for any argument.

BTW, ML did not change to BH H3 when the plastic ball was played in 2014 WC and 2014 National Championships when he lost both in the finals. That is why at that time he was thought to be done in plastic era.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

RTK, later when I am off work, I will see it I can analyze the 2013 ML v WH wttc semifinal.

In the meantime, can you do me a favor and watch that 2013 match. Maybe watch a few times. Try to pay particular attention to points ML seems to lose on what look like they are mistakes. Also pay attention to WH’s serve placement and how ML handles that. And WH’s placement for pushes and how ML handles that.

Also particularly watch what changes in WH’s serve placement in games 4 and 5 and whether ML looks like he is playing well or with nerves in those two games.

Maybe also see if you can notice how WH changes tactics again in game 6.

If you do that, you will see more in that match.

 

[RidTheKid]

I will apologize as soon as Carl apologizes to me for claiming that I don't understand TT and that I'm "simply a fan".

btw, I am feeling insulted that that you can call such a respected person in this forum insecure and ridiculous ... much unlike how you were taking offense to my "supposedly twisting your words" , this is a direct personal insult ... can you please apologize to Carl asap ? ... I am demanding a public apology here even if UpSideDownCarl is either busy or letting it slide !

 

[rainneverever]

Good to know. We need to move to China.

I thought you should have known as a senior forum member lol. I recalled years ago people here taught me even China National Championships and CNT trials are huge.

 

[ttmonster]

I really don't get why you are making this personal , none of us are saying that Ma Long is not the GOAT ... he is the closest or one of the closest to GOAT that you can have at this point ... you are fan of Ma Long and you should be happy with that .. all we are saying that there are arguments that can be made against it and that is true for any GOAT in any sport ...
you should be happy that we are all calling your man to be possibly the greatest ...

simply put the reason we are asking for personal playing levels is because of the stupid arguments that are being made here ... e.g. ball does not affect spin ! .. you know better to stay away from this ...

No offense. Again if you don't agree with pro players and coaches on their opinions, why bother compare your own levels of TT for any argument.

BTW, ML did not change to BH H3 when the plastic ball was played in 2014 WC and 2014 National Championships when he lost both in the finals. That is why at that time he was thought to be done in plastic era.

 

[RidTheKid]

No rating but I play evenly with guys with 1200-1300 rating in Sweden, that's 2200 USATT appx. You seem to get insulted very easily.

What is your rating in Sweeden , how long have you been playing and what your level ... and don't give us that crap about FH-FH hits ... lets talk about real matches. If you are at any decent level of playing table tennis you would know how much ball affects the game ... you are not arguing with "flat earthers" .. which I am taking a very big personal insult to by the way and demand and immediate apology ... I feel you are the one sitting inside a well and croaking ..

 

[RidTheKid]

I've watched it several times for the record, a few weeks back last time. But I'm actually already watching it again as we speak

RTK, later when I am off work, I will see it I can analyze the 2013 ML v WH wttc semifinal.

In the meantime, can you do me a favor and watch that 2013 match. Maybe watch a few times. Try to pay particular attention to points ML seems to lose on what look like they are mistakes. Also pay attention to WH’s serve placement and how ML handles that. And WH’s placement for pushes and how ML handles that.

Also particularly watch what changes in WH’s serve placement in games 4 and 5 and whether ML looks like he is playing well or with nerves in those two games.

Maybe also see if you can notice how WH changes tactics again in game 6.

If you do that, you will see more in that match.

 

[ttmonster]

Ha ha .. I learnt it from you senpai to get offended when it suits me !
Your claiming you play evenly with guys with 2200 rating USATT does not hold water ... since you have not played competitive table tennis at any level and don't have any evidence to prove that .... the claims you are making is not worth anything ... pointless to argue with you

No rating but I play evenly with guys with 1200-1300 rating in Sweden, that's 2200 USATT appx. You seem to get insulted very easily.

 

[Brs]

These discussions are pointless in every sport. Even in timed/measured like swimming or track and field the kit and training has changed so much, who can say how good an athlete from decades ago would be today.

In games with rule changes and massive disruptions it's totally ridiculous. In the NFL is Tom Brady the GOAT. Most people would say yes. But if he could get hit in the knees like QBs used to, he might be a second Joe Theismann.

All GOAT threads are good for is fodder for arguments. Maybe we should have a thread about who is the greatest forum arguer of all time. I vote for that troll who was banned from mytt, I forgot his screen name already.

 

[RidTheKid]

You've heard Ma Long complain a lot (many times) about using different balls the last few years with the ABS balls being introduced. Did Ma Long ever complain this regularly about the cell ball?

I really don't get why you are making this personal , none of us are saying that Ma Long is not the GOAT ... he is the closest or one of the closest to GOAT that you can have at this point ... you are fan of Ma Long and you should be happy with that .. all we are saying that there are arguments that can be made against it and that is true for any GOAT in any sport ...
you should be happy that we are all calling your man to be possibly the greatest ...

simply put the reason we are asking for personal playing levels is because of the stupid arguments that are being made here ... e.g. ball does not affect spin ! .. you know better to stay away from this ...

 

[NextLevel]

I thought you should have known as a senior forum member lol. I recalled years ago people here taught me even China National Championships and CNT trials are huge.

Hahahaha. Every thing must be learned and yes, I have heard that National Games are a big deal in China. I know Ma Long won the last one with celluloid ball, beating Wang Hao in semis and Fan in the final. I think both matches were close. Not his usual 4-0 over Wang Hao in useless matches.

Ma Long was a great player with celluloid ball. But plastic ball was where his dominance truly came out.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I will apologize as soon as Carl apologizes to me for claiming that I don't understand TT and that I'm "simply a fan".

I’m not asking for an apology and I understood why you said what you said. I also understand why I said what I said. And my comment has to do with how you try to attack and smother anyone who presents any opinion other than your own. But I am okay with our interaction.

If you simply watch the 2013 match closely, it will be much easier for me to give time stamps and explain what I see. When I do, you can disagree. But, if you do, it would be nice if there is some reasoning behind it that has to do with what you see in the video. Rather than what WH said after the match.

BTW: I also heard that after the match WH said to ML something like: “you played well. You can hold your head high.” That is my memory from right after the match though.

 

[NextLevel]

You've heard Ma Long complain a lot (many times) about using different balls the last few years with the ABS balls being introduced. Did Ma Long ever complain this regularly about the cell ball?

We have hear Ma Long say that the public is the one that thinks his mental game is weak not him, and he has also said he is mentally weak- which is it? Complaints just tend to go along with wins and losses. ML complained after loss in Asian TT champs 2017 but silence after WTTC 2017. Par for the course. Results don't lie.

Quadri Aruna prefers the cell ball but all his best results came after plastic ball was introduced.

Look at what the plastic ball did to Xu Xin. These are all great players but subtle changes can affect players greatly. They reshaped their games but it isn't fair.

 

[NextLevel]

I’m not asking for an apology and I understood why you said what you said. I also understand why I said what I said. And my comment has to do with how you try to attack and smother anyone who presents any opinion other than your own. But I am okay with our interaction.

If you simply watch the 2013 match closely, it will be much easier for me to give time stamps and explain what I see. When I do, you can disagree. But, if you do, it would be nice if there is some reasoning behind it that has to do with what you see in the video. Rather than what WH said after the match.

BTW: I also heard that after the match WH said to ML something like: “you played well. You can hold your head high.” That is my memory from right after the match though.

I think he asked whether ML had a injury lol.

 

[RidTheKid]

I really don't care what you think, now do I I know my level and it's extremely good for such little time I've put into it.

Ha ha .. I learnt it from you senpai to get offended when it suits me !
Your claiming you play evenly with guys with 2200 rating USATT does not hold water ... since you have not played competitive table tennis at any level and don't have any evidence to prove that .... the claims you are making is not worth anything ... pointless to argue with you