ITTF Men's and Women's World Cup Macao 2025, 4/14-20

[shaibu]

I know its been said already, but still cant believe how monumentally stupid XIOM marketing is looking now. The player you sponsor gets a huge win playing with his namesake blade. Not some other brand blade with a xiom handle, but a genuine xiom. What a marketing opportunity, right? One little problem, you have discontinued the blade.

 

[latej]

I know its been said already, but still cant believe how monumentally stupid XIOM marketing is looking now. The player you sponsor gets a huge win playing with his namesake blade. Not some other brand blade with a xiom handle, but a genuine xiom. What a marketing opportunity, right? One little problem, you have discontinued the blade.

It seems XIOM doesn't give a s...

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EDIT: I guess real men don't read these web-pages... So I bow down... Good job...

 

[Robin0910]

ma long always had problems against hard hitters.

ZJK beat him because he hit too hard, harimoto did the same, lee sang su , fan zhendong etc etc

Im not saying Ma Long would have lost 10/10 times but it wouldnt be as easy as it seems

Also ma long gambled against lin gaoyuan because he was outplayed, that game was more like lin gaoyuan totally lost his composure, rather than ma long finding a super smart tactic to beat him

Watch the game again, in the first 3 sets lin gaoyuan borrows power from ma long shots and counters them, and at 3-0 ma long simply dropped his tempo a bit, and let lin gaoyuan miss his shots instead. It's not like he cornered lin with his superiority, lin simply didnt adapt to a rather normal and predictable change. In fact I was quite surprised that malong didnt thhought of that tactic earlier in the game

Yeah, but that implies that Hugo didn’t hit hard enough at their last encounter at China Smash. Zhang Jike didn’t just hit hard, he also played with tons more spin and his backhand flick was the best in the world at the time.

Harimoto never hit hard enough when he was a kid. He won with his extreme speed hitting off the bounce all times and placement.

His head to head with Lee Sangsu is 6-2 the last loss was 3-2 and their last encounter (again at China Smash) was won by Ma Long 3-0.
LSS’s strength are his flicks and mainly his third balls. He won many points with those when he beat Ma Long but he didn’t let it happen again in Beijing.

The Lin Gaoyaun example was just to demonstrate that he was capable of coming back from nothing and winning the World Cup even though no one expected him to win it.
I know that it was Lin Gaoyuan who completely fumbled it as he led some of the games even after Ma Long started coming back.

So it’s not just power that he was beaten by.
All these players had other extremely talented quirks.
I’m not saying that Ma Long would’ve 100% beaten Hugo. But their last encounters were totally dominated by Ma Long and when he analyzes a player he will beat them. For example Wang Chuqin at last year’s World Cup 4-0. The Wang Chuqin who was totally dominating the events up until that time. Hugo had a very close match with him on Saturday.

So based on these I believe Ma Long whom we saw at China Smash would’ve won in a close match.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I know its been said already, but still cant believe how monumentally stupid XIOM marketing is looking now. The player you sponsor gets a huge win playing with his namesake blade. Not some other brand blade with a xiom handle, but a genuine xiom. What a marketing opportunity, right? One little problem, you have discontinued the blade.

I called it out a few weeks or months ago here as well. And it is a recurring issue with XIOM not a one time or unlucky thing. Insanely dumb and a good reason not to purchase their products - what's the point when, if you like it and want to stick to it, you can't get the same thing a year later?

 

[Brs]

Calderano played the match of his life!

This.

People got very excited after Hirano had her big coming out in 2017 Asian champs and beat the top three WCNT . A guy NL and I know said then, What if she just had one really great week? Hirano has gone on to be a very fine player, without overturning the world order of table tennis.

Calderano has been a top guy for years. Maybe he just had his one really great week.

 

[NextLevel]

This.

People got very excited after Hirano had her big coming out in 2017 Asian champs and beat the top three WCNT . A guy NL and I know said then, What if she just had one really great week? Hirano has gone on to be a very fine player, without overturning the world order of table tennis.

Calderano has been a top guy for years. Maybe he just had his one really great week.

This is definitely possible. The counter to that is that he has made changes to his priorities and training with a huge focus on this. I guess time will tell.

 

[NetProphet]

This.

People got very excited after Hirano had her big coming out in 2017 Asian champs and beat the top three WCNT . A guy NL and I know said then, What if she just had one really great week? Hirano has gone on to be a very fine player, without overturning the world order of table tennis.

Calderano has been a top guy for years. Maybe he just had his one really great week.

Yes, I agree.
It could just be a great week for him and a level he can't maintain.
That's why I'm made my Ma Long comparison earlier to put some perspective on future expectation (for myself as much as anything as I thought about the likelihood of more of this in the future) because if anyone wants to consistently take titles from the top Chinese players then that's the kind of level you have to reach consistently. And that requires more craft and ability to adapt to different match situations than most people appreciate (I don't claim to be any type of guru but I do enjoy studying the tactical side of the game....)
Anyway, without that they'll figure you out, and, by and large, if WCQ don't get you then LSD or LJK will. The probability and numbers are just always on their side. And that's even without mention of XP or whoever else they have to surprise us in the next 12 mths.
Hugo is so flamboyant and brilliant to watch that he has the love and best wishes of almost the entire world in his bid to do this again, but as you say, could just have been his lightning the ha moment...🤷🏻

 

[banbekas]

ma long always had problems against hard hitters.

ZJK beat him because he hit too hard, harimoto did the same, lee sang su , fan zhendong etc etc

Im not saying Ma Long would have lost 10/10 times but it wouldnt be as easy as it seems

Also ma long gambled against lin gaoyuan because he was outplayed, that game was more like lin gaoyuan totally lost his composure, rather than ma long finding a super smart tactic to beat him

Watch the game again, in the first 3 sets lin gaoyuan borrows power from ma long shots and counters them, and at 3-0 ma long simply dropped his tempo a bit, and let lin gaoyuan miss his shots instead. It's not like he cornered lin with his superiority, lin simply didnt adapt to a rather normal and predictable change. In fact I was quite surprised that malong didnt thhought of that tactic earlier in the game

You are saying Kid Harimoto hit the ball as hard as FZD and prime ZJK? I have seen it all now..
ZJK and ML were pretty much neck to neck in every encounter except for Rio. Even then it was an even game for most of the match.

 

[banbekas]

This.

People got very excited after Hirano had her big coming out in 2017 Asian champs and beat the top three WCNT . A guy NL and I know said then, What if she just had one really great week? Hirano has gone on to be a very fine player, without overturning the world order of table tennis.

Calderano has been a top guy for years. Maybe he just had his one really great week.

It's very likely this.
As much as I would love to glaze Hugo, his win against WCQ was pretty shaky.

 

[NextLevel]

It's very likely this.
As much as I would love to glaze Hugo, his win against WCQ was pretty shaky.

Shaky is definitely the wrong word. The match was close yes, but the win was definitely not shaky, Hugo won many patterns that were not beyond him. It was at the very least a match between equals and arguably since Hugo won the last 3 games, he would have the advantage in the rematch as he executed the last strategy that worked .

 

[NextLevel]

You are saying Kid Harimoto hit the ball as hard as FZD and prime ZJK? I have seen it all now..
ZJK and ML were pretty much neck to neck in every encounter except for Rio. Even then it was an even game for most of the match.

Kid Harimoto had a shitty forehand but the power of that forehand was never in dispute especially on third ball if he had a loose ball. He just often couldn't rally with it.

 

[blahness]

Hugo's problem is if someone manages to defend his 1st attack, or attacks first, he won't be in a good position because he has big strokes and thus much slower recovery and also poorer defence. But those big strokes are also why he is so dangerous too so it is a tough balance. Imo he is on the right path now, just specialise hard in short game precision, consistency, placement, deception and spin variation so that he gets the 1st big attack most of the time, then he maximises his strengths and his winning chances will be high.

Sometimes you gotta go harder with your strengths rather than attempting to cover your weaknesses. Hugo is never gonna be as fast close table as say Harimoto or Felix or LSD.

 

[latej]

Hugo's problem is if someone manages to defend his 1st attack, or attacks first, he won't be in a good position because he has big strokes and thus much slower recovery and also poorer defence.

Actually in those matches his 1st attack was returned and he was ready, and either finished it or put it back slightly weaker and finished next. I really don't thing that will be the issue... Hmm, defense, I thought his defense was pretty cool too, see the match-point... Can't agree here.

But those big strokes are also why he is so dangerous too so it is a tough balance. Imo he is on the right path now, just specialise hard in short game precision, consistency, placement, deception and spin variation so that he gets the 1st big attack most of the time, then he maximises his strengths and his winning chances will be high.

I also thought if you add power 10%, you need to add 10% timing precision. Whether or not he will maintain it, is an open question. Certainly he proved to himself, he can.

Sometimes you gotta go harder with your strengths rather than attempting to cover your weaknesses. Hugo is never gonna be as fast close table as say Harimoto or Felix or LSD.

Exactly. Isn't it nice seeing WCQ over-powered on many shots.

 

[NextLevel]

Actually in those matches his 1st attack was returned and he was ready, and either finished it or put it back slightly weaker and finished next. I really don't thing that will be the issue... Hmm, defense, I thought his defense was pretty cool too, see the match-point... Can't agree here.



I also thought if you add power 10%, you need to add 10% timing precision. Whether or not he will maintain it, is an open question. Certainly he proved to himself, he can.



Exactly. Isn't it nice seeing WCQ over-powered on many shots.

Exactly. In addition to the short game, Hugo showed serious improvements in his of the bounce counterloop and block. The last point of game 3 vs LSD was very eye opening, Hugo used to back off the table to counterloop all the time but he has clearly worked on holding the table to coubterloop. It would be interesting to see him play Truls and see whether Truls will still try the approach he used at Paris.

 

[Persistence TT]

You are saying Kid Harimoto hit the ball as hard as FZD and prime ZJK? I have seen it all now..
ZJK and ML were pretty much neck to neck in every encounter except for Rio. Even then it was an even game for most of the match.

No I didnt say that. Please read carefully before commenting.

I talked about hard hitters and yes, harimoto hit the ball hard, harder than ma long could handle.

 

[Yuomay]

This.

People got very excited after Hirano had her big coming out in 2017 Asian champs and beat the top three WCNT . A guy NL and I know said then, What if she just had one really great week? Hirano has gone on to be a very fine player, without overturning the world order of table tennis.

Calderano has been a top guy for years. Maybe he just had his one really great week.

if I remember correctly he just decided to not play league games next season. It is very well possible that this decision liberated him from quite some pressure.

 

[blahness]

Actually in those matches his 1st attack was returned and he was ready, and either finished it or put it back slightly weaker and finished next. I really don't thing that will be the issue... Hmm, defense, I thought his defense was pretty cool too, see the match-point... Can't agree here.

Hugo used to struggle against Harimoto precisely because he was just being blocked down and wasn't fast enough to sustain his attack. The difference this time of course is because of short game improvements and increased accuracy from his end. With such immense quality and consistency in the 1st attack then it becomes a moot point because they won't be able to block much less counter his attack. Also because they are struggling to even block, they're not thinking about adding quality on the defence (for eg 1st game vs LSD at 10-6 where LSD countered the opening loop by Hugo)

Away from the table defence like Hugo doesn't work most of the time. It is error prone and also relies on the opponent missing their loops/smashes. He got lucky this time with a few balls but it doesn't mean it is gonna work next time.

 

[latej]

Hugo used to struggle against Harimoto precisely because he was just being blocked down and wasn't fast enough to sustain his attack. The difference this time of course is because of short game improvements and increased accuracy from his end. With such immense quality and consistency in the 1st attack then it becomes a moot point because they won't be able to block much less counter his attack. Also because they are struggling to even block, they're not thinking about adding quality on the defence (for eg 1st game vs LSD at 10-6 where LSD countered the opening loop by Hugo)

I think the unreturnable 1st attack does happen - if the opponent doesn't read the serve properly, and in this level, it is relatively rare. So mostly he (or anyone) expects it will be returned. The step-back is part of the motion...

For me the difference was in 2 points: the power, and the relentlessness. He has the power which physically is not present in his opponents mostly. And he was relentlessly using. I will use it I will use it I will use it. I don't care if I miss, if I don't use it, I loose... ;-) Both sides... Cheers ;-)

Away from the table defence like Hugo doesn't work most of the time. It is error prone and also relies on the opponent missing their loops/smashes. He got lucky this time with a few balls but it doesn't mean it is gonna work next time.

Will see. I think his defense is good, but you probably think others have even better defense...

 

[andzejgolot]

I can beat lin shidong, thanks to the VAR

 

[blahness]

I think the unreturnable 1st attack does happen - if the opponent doesn't read the serve properly, and in this level, it is relatively rare. So mostly he (or anyone) expects it will be returned. The step-back is part of the motion...

For me the difference was in 2 points: the power, and the relentlessness. He has the power which physically is not present in his opponents mostly. And he was relentlessly using. I will use it I will use it I will use it. I don't care if I miss, if I don't use it, I loose... ;-) Both sides... Cheers ;-)



Will see. I think his defense is good, but you probably think others have even better defense...

the scary part is that he was doing unreturnable loopkills off half long serves, high quality deep spinny pushes, flicks, chiquitas which most top players would have use slow spinny loops on. It is not just about opponents misreading the serve. I thought both LSD and WCQ received his serve well although they were restricted from the chiquita due to the low trajectory + heavy af backspin.

I guess by defence Hugo is quite far behind some of the other players in the tour. I would say Ma Long, LJK, FZD, Harimoto all have pretty impenetrable defences.