JOOLA Flash 40+ vs Nittaku Premium

[Baal]

That does sound quite like a XuShaoFa *** clone. Is the Flash pretty much the same thing, rebranded?

Yes, as far as I can tell.

 

[Baal]

This Joola is the ball to be used at the World Veterans Championships in Las Vegas in June 2018, so any info could be helpful to participants.

Simple. Train with any seamless ball for 2 weeks before the tournament. Should be enough.
They are essentially all the same and are playable (unlike cellulose acetate balls). But if you are used to ABS balls like Nittaku Premium or D40+, the seamless will feel large, slow, and less spinny and at first feel a bit like beachballs.

As others mentioned, the tables impact all of this. Expect very slow play with the main effect of spin being the way the ball bounces on the table.

 

[Der_Echte]

I knew I had to get you started so people can get the real picture of the poor quality, poor consistency and challenges of the non-ABS and seamless plastic balls à la Joola Flash, XSF... God, I also remember the comical and endless scenes of Samsonov, Aruna and other pro and top players going through several boxes of Joola Flash or Butterfly G40+ at the various LA Opens I've attended sponsored by either brands. I should have totally filmed it!

I have to be up-front. The poly balls Nexy sells (if no one knew, I am 1/2 of the USA Nexy Distributor outfit) are seamless poly balls I would think are made by XSF to Nexy Korea's specs and QC. So are Yinhe and Xiom I suspect.

If the balls were not stored in uncontrolled environment in the summer where it is well over 40C outside (and way higher in the unprotected environment, like say a trunk or storage container) those seamless balls from Yinhe are round enough, and predictable bounce. They have a harder feel than the base XSF. I feel the base XSF balls sold around 2015 had real crappy QC. They feel lighter and the couple batches of 144 I saw people buy and use had maybe 10 good balls out of the box of 144. As much as XSF inovated and provided a WAY better ball than the crappy weird-bouncing seamed 40+ balls, XSF balls were far from match play acceptable. Still, they were 10x better than the crappy seamed 40+ that were not Nittaku Pemium 40+.

The Xiom and Nexy balls feel harder than even Yinhe, I like that aspect a lot. I believe the QC is better and the balls have a slightly different formulation or process to make them. The Nexy balls I measured when they first came out to USA in 2015 were at the absolute max tolerance of weight. Overall, the bounce is consistent, have a great hard feel I like, and have a good roundness, maybe QC is more picky for these, don't really know.

However, Der_Echte trying to be the ever-ready dude, would keep these balls and some other gear in his trunk of the official Audi boss car. After even one week, a perfect round ball is more like an egg.

If balls are shipped from Asia where they make them, and ship them in shipping containers, and it is hot over there, or over here where they are received, then inside temps of the shipping container would reach ridiculous high temps. Just try to open up one of these containers on a hot summer day and see how long you can stay inside... and that is with the door open.

So you could see that there can be factors affecting a product that even a TT maker cannot really control.

Anyone who has been reading the TT forums over the years would know what Baal has written over time as the different balls were deployed to the market.

I agree very much in concept and substance with what he observed.

 

[Der_Echte]

We whine and complain (rightfully) about the poor QC and overall quality/performance of the current Flash ball that is used in tourneys, but even that crappy ball is SO MUCH better than the crappy 40+ seamed ball that many USA tourneys used. I hated on those balls so bad I wanted to torch every one of them or stomp on them personally. Why any sane person would want to use them for a tourney is insanity and borderline criminal to subject humanity to such anguish... almost criteria to assemble a war crimes tribunal. Those balls were really that bad. I DO understand why many tourney directors used it... the ball was likely provided free of charge along with other considerations... TD made a business decision, right or wrong. ITTF and the former regime + the brown-nose cronies had a part in this too in all this gotta-use plastic ball brainwash con-job. Anyone watching the forums could read what many skeptical forumers said after they researched the "problem" and saw through the smokescreen. Notabley, Jay Tubberville was in the forefront of that effort, among others, but he did the research and laid out the most logical argument and reasoning why the whole deal was bullcrap.

One could look up my official results of every tourney I played in that had that crappy Joola ball... I lost rating points in every one of those tourneys, some of them I had a real significant drop.

Not that I want to dote on rating points, I could give a care, it doesn't define me as a play nor does it really always represent my playing level, but it does give others a ballpark idea if they see a number.

 

[Der_Echte]

Even with the crappy Flash ball and somewhat friction tables (the tables in 2016 Joola NA teams had less friction than US Open) I still had a really good result in 2016 Joola NA teams. Yeah, it was really inconvenient to try to search for and keep every possible fragment of the ball after it exploded/shredded on an edge hit and give it to control desk to get a new ball... As much as that was a pain in the azz, I was accustomed to the ball enough as the Smash TTC club I was a member mainly used XSF balls that had poor QC, so Baal is right in saying just get some crappy or off-round XSF made seamless and play a few weeks.

 

[thomas.pong]

All good points!

On the other end, the Nittaku Premium balls probably come in the same horrible shipping container conditions as the XSF. Maybe part of the quality of ABS balls is that they can withstand the heat, thus also making them more durable?

 

[Der_Echte]

TP, (uh... maybe bad choice of your initials on my part... in American English TP means Toilet Paper)

I would also suspect the NP40+ have a much better ability to make it through those conditions. I won't really know until I buy a pack and keep them in the trunk of the official President's black Audi.

Heck, I won't have to wait long, outside daytime high temperature will be 43C+ in a few months, temps inside trunk prolly at or above 180F...

All I would have to do is cough up $34 USD for a 12 pack plus shipping... then place a few of them in my bat case, leave the rest in the pack in the trunk, then see how those dogs bark at the club several times over the summer.

 

[langel]

Well, in fact I like XuShaofa 3* most of all.
Nittaku is very good, but here it is 3 times more expensive and at least with 3 times shorter life and it makes is out of consideration.
Here Joola flash is not available and I can say nothing about it.
We all have played in the club with DHS D40+ and we all are negative about it.
I have mentioned that we have a priest player in the club and he had proclaimed it as "an unforgiveble sin". It maybe a matter of parcell, I don't know, but the fact is that this ball will not be used by the club for a long time.
We like all of the balls of Minkow factory - Kingnik, XuShaofa and branded.
Previously I felt no difference between seamless brands and used what is available, usually XSF and Xiom, but the latest parcells of Xiom seamless prooved different, less spin, not vivid, no pleasure. I managed to brake one and it smelled very strange from the inside. So we continue to play mainly with XSF - unbreakable, all balls round, long life performance.
Maybe there are some differences in regions and parcells.

 

[thomas.pong]

Well, in fact I like XuShaofa 3* most of all.
Nittaku is very good, but here it is 3 times more expensive and at least with 3 times shorter life and it makes is out of consideration.
Here Joola flash is not available and I can say nothing about it.
We all have played in the club with DHS D40+ and we all are negative about it.
I have mentioned that we have a priest player in the club and he had proclaimed it as "an unforgiveble sin". It maybe a matter of parcell, I don't know, but the fact is that this ball will not be used by the club for a long time.
We like all of the balls of Minkow factory - Kingnik, XuShaofa and branded.
Previously I felt no difference between seamless brands and used what is available, usually XSF and Xiom, but the latest parcells of Xiom seamless prooved different, less spin, not vivid, no pleasure. I managed to brake one and it smelled very strange from the inside. So we continue to play mainly with XSF - unbreakable, all balls round, long life performance.
Maybe there are some differences in regions and parcells.

You should try Nittaku SD 40+, better quality than D40+, same price as XSF (~$1 /ball). Available for TT11.

 

[langel]

You should try Nittaku SD 40+, better quality than D40+, same price as XSF (~$1 /ball). Available for TT11.

I may try with a single ball from here to make a comparison, but it should proove a lot better than XSF for me to decide to order from TT11.

Here 12 balls 3* of XSF cost 13 euro.
At TT11 N SD 12 balls are 17+5 shipping = 22 euro.
Its a double price and they have to be really much better.