KTS Coach shows how to NOT be tight on FH Topspin

[Der_Echte]

I linked this vid some months or years ago, but this is a real lucid explanation of how to use your power.

 

[Wrighty67]

Nice video, really helpful - thanks.

 

[Kopp]

Great video! Thanks for sharing.

 

[NextLevel]

The video is awesome - her use of the body is not debatable. Her opinion on the forehand followthrough, well....

That said, there is no one way to do anything in TT. But I would argue that what she is saying there probably applies more to hitting than looping and there are reasons people salute that she didn't get into and it isn't all about recovery. Let's just say that there are high level players who follow through very differently from what she recommends.

But let's just look at one different reason for a slightly different approach to following through. It enables arm straightening and a forearm snap if you want to use one.

 

[turbozed]

The video is awesome - her use of the body is not debatable. Her opinion on the forehand followthrough, well....

That said, there is no one way to do anything in TT. But I would argue that what she is saying there probably applies more to hitting than looping and there are reasons people salute that she didn't get into and it isn't all about recovery. Let's just say that there are high level players who follow through very differently from what she recommends.

But let's just look at one different reason for a slightly different approach to following through. It enables arm straightening and a forearm snap if you want to use one.

Thanks for posting this. "Mistake 1" in this video is something I noticed I've been making. Going to try lowering the arm more and relaxing the shoulder. Also, the bit about using the shoulder more away from the table for more forward momentum just makes a lot of sense. After watching both of these videos, the kinesiology of the FH from drive to topsin seems a lot more clear to me now.

 

[Lazer]

One gripe, way too much yapping, don’t have the energy to watch the whole thing 🥱

I wish they would be more to the point…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Der_Echte]

Lazer, you need more patience to have a Korean girlfriend.
Are Swedish women easier? Should get stamp for visa?

Having said that, although Kim Jung Hoon yaps in many of the vids I post of him, he gets to the root of everything soon enough.

 

[Wrighty67]

The video is awesome - her use of the body is not debatable. Her opinion on the forehand followthrough, well....

That said, there is no one way to do anything in TT. But I would argue that what she is saying there probably applies more to hitting than looping and there are reasons people salute that she didn't get into and it isn't all about recovery. Let's just say that there are high level players who follow through very differently from what she recommends.

But let's just look at one different reason for a slightly different approach to following through. It enables arm straightening and a forearm snap if you want to use one.

That’s a game changer video for me NL - she literally could have been talking about me on both FH and BH! Relaxing the shoulder is my no1 goal - thanks for sharing that one.

 

[Der_Echte]

The video is awesome - her use of the body is not debatable. Her opinion on the forehand followthrough, well....

That said, there is no one way to do anything in TT. But I would argue that what she is saying there probably applies more to hitting than looping and there are reasons people salute that she didn't get into and it isn't all about recovery. Let's just say that there are high level players who follow through very differently from what she recommends.

Hi Next Level,
I agree with your observations that coach Hyo S M sometimes says some things that she does for success, but to her players do differently for success.

I remember one of her vids a few years ago that she was discussing how to generate spin and power on a FH topspin opener vs underspin ball... she very strongly advocated that one should NOT tilt waist and upper body to the side to get down for leverage... but should rotate and bend knees/squat to get low enough for leverage... she said it was because it is difficult to recover if you tilt on waist to tilt entire upper body to the side to help get you down...

I use some of both (knee bend/waist) tilt at waist to side and down) and can recover just fine. I see some pros do that too just fine.

Just about every Korean pro will say upfront that there is no single correct answer in TT.

I picked this vid, because she could clearly articulate some concepts that are important to generate power and avoid things that sap power/control/timing.

I remember some years back i made a thread called do not move your shoulder all around you where I linked a vid of the baerong/yorong girls, or coach Hyo or Ggongyang... discussed similar things to the baerong/yorong vid NL linked.

Learning how to relax the body, how to stay relaxed and explode each sequence of the chain and firm at impact takes time, but is golden. So many adults kill their power by trying to become captain caveman and tighten the shoulder and arm/hand and try to club the ball with the shoulder strength.

 

[Der_Echte]

Kim Jung Hoon advocates knee bend and waist rotation a little more than you normally see so that the great majority of the waist uncoiling happens before and right at impact, so that only the momentum of the lower arm and bat are the force going forward... so it is pretty easy to slow that down and recover back... much more so than if you were still trying to uncoil waist at and after impact.

KJH advocates a bat finish in different places based and what shot is going on... some will finish in classic salute in front of and slightly above forehead, some might finish in front of nose or forehead. KJH emphasizes leg and waist prep and exploding/finishing the explosions before and right at impact over the exact place of bat finish... which will be pretty much a form of the shot being done (loop vs underspin, drive, powerloop, medium loop)

Plenty of room to consider players and coaches who know and can articulate. No player can copy 100% of what some pro says and does, a player has to learn, understand, and adopt what will work for him or herself. Examining and questioning are good things.

 

[Der_Echte]

There is also a BH short arm stroke small use of wrist shot I am trying to get LDM7 to develop... on that shot there is practically zero follow through. The shot almost stops itself with the big firming at impact. Why? The muscles used to firm up are also making it damned difficult to continue the stroke.

This is real handy as this makes for a super quick reset... that allows you to play real fast close to the table.

Jimmy Butler has a real mean BH snapshot with a similar concept.

 

[latej]

I remember one of her vids a few years ago that she was discussing how to generate spin and power on a FH topspin opener vs underspin ball... she very strongly advocated that one should NOT tilt waist and upper body to the side to get down for leverage... but should rotate and bend knees/squat to get low enough for leverage... she said it was because it is difficult to recover if you tilt on waist to tilt entire upper body to the side to help get you down...

Both ML and WCQ have perfect FH, but I think there are some differences. I think on average WCQ tends to be tilted more forwards, i.e. having feet planted a tiny bit more back than where ML's would be. Also perhaps he tends to stand a bit wider on average. And one more difference is that on backswing, the shoulder of the non-playing hand on WCQ seems to be not so much rotated - you can see his thumb is up, whereas on ML sometimes the little-finger's edge is up. Due to that the ML's shoulder is, how to say, more dislocated, which makes his back less straight, and so then on forward swing, WCQ can rotate the body slightly more effectively.

This is just my observation. I'm not sure it really is very relevant. It is clear all the top players have slightly different mechanics, yet they are all fantastic. But I think WCQ is biomechanically perfect . Don't kill me.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi Latej,

I am not opening up the arms room or radioing the FDC (Fire Direction Control) to rain down artillery.

I remember Timo Boll tilts at his waist to get his upper body and shoulders lower and to the side for leverage, it sure works for him. He isn't finishing off balance, even in his 40s.

More and more, there is a growing number of modern topspin style former Korean pros opening clubs and teaching modern two wing topspin play style and the associated technical things... many have their own youtube channels... Many elite amateur TT players did the same... so now you so some really great content and articulation on what is important for success in so many shots and rally/match situations.

This explosion of Korean youtubers has done a lot for the sport in Korea and I sometimes borrow their explanations to highlight or showcase some really needed thing to learn. Sometimes Lula likes it

The difficult thing about coaching adult players who were not trained as kids is that it may take many different ways to say something before the light gets turned on.

People can call the FDC for fire and blow me up (figuratively of course) and I wouldn't care. I am determined to get people to learn and one has to be committed and determined sometimes.

 

[jammmail]

There is also a BH short arm stroke small use of wrist shot I am trying to get LDM7 to develop... on that shot there is practically zero follow through. The shot almost stops itself with the big firming at impact. Why? The muscles used to firm up are also making it damned difficult to continue the stroke.

This is real handy as this makes for a super quick reset... that allows you to play real fast close to the table.

Jimmy Butler has a real mean BH snapshot with a similar concept.

This is what im working on with my coach - that snappyness (is that a word?) both sides but particularly the BH side

 

[NextLevel]

Hi Latej,

I am not opening up the arms room or radioing the FDC (Fire Direction Control) to rain down artillery.

I remember Timo Boll tilts at his waist to get his upper body and shoulders lower and to the side for leverage, it sure works for him. He isn't finishing off balance, even in his 40s.

More and more, there is a growing number of modern topspin style former Korean pros opening clubs and teaching modern two wing topspin play style and the associated technical things... many have their own youtube channels... Many elite amateur TT players did the same... so now you so some really great content and articulation on what is important for success in so many shots and rally/match situations.

This explosion of Korean youtubers has done a lot for the sport in Korea and I sometimes borrow their explanations to highlight or showcase some really needed thing to learn. Sometimes Lula likes it

The difficult thing about coaching adult players who were not trained as kids is that it may take many different ways to say something before the light gets turned on.

People can call the FDC for fire and blow me up (figuratively of course) and I wouldn't care. I am determined to get people to learn and one has to be committed and determined sometimes.

The guys who tilt their waist without using sufficient leg lunge risk back injury if they use their back to generate too much because the spine can only go so far in certain directions. Injuries have been a huge part of Timo's career so we need to be careful what technical lessons we adopt sometimes. Especially since we don't make the money that gives them access to high quality medical care.