Life, Existence, and the Meaning of Long Pips - The Opus Maximus of James Z

[TensorBackhand]

You do know that if you invert the pips out rubbers, it is, wait for it, inverted rubber , right ? lol
Also there is no rule that says one can’t glue the rubbers on their blade upside down.

lol I'm reminded of a guy I played with he had a brand new sheet of Donic Bluegrip C2 and he glued it onto his blade upside down.

When he went to play with it, he noticed it was upside down. What an incredible waste of a rubber, but hilarious.

 

[Lazer]

This is something that I've always wondered about. Speed and spin are rated on sites with a single number, when it would be more accurate and make more sense for them to be represented on a curve with several different values depending on input power. Wish there was an objective way to test for those values. Subjective feel of reviewers who have widely varying input power ability seems extremely unreliable.

Yes, I agree but that would more unintelligible for some people.
I think now they register the highest possible (beyond any human ) spin, whereas before they included to a certain amount of "esase to engage spin". That's the only way I can see Rozena up between the Tenergies. To me that makes no sense at all.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[lodro]

Thank you .
I rest my case (assuming you understand the intended PRIMARY purpose of illegal speed-gluing or illegal boosting)


No it is NOT.
I just explained it. Only pips out rubbers (OX version) have their top sheet only approved.
Inverted (spinny or anti) are approved as sponge & top-sheet together because you cannot have an OX for inverted rubber.
If you buy a rubber with sponge (inverted or pips out), the player is technically not allowed to switch the sponge but lots of players do it. Umpires can actually ban that racket. I am pretty sure of that.
I think you may be confused because ITTF LARC has started listing tops sheets only. (They used to list each rubber with thicknesses allowed).
Anyway this is not relevant to the discussion at hand unless BOTH the tops sheet & sponge of Tenergey 05 is different from BOTH the top sheet & sponge of Tenergy 05 FX for example. But I doubt it.

I would be happy to supply photos of inverted rubbers with the same ittf numbers but different color sponges . Would you then say that these are illegal rubbers ?

 

[Egon]

Just yesterday I tested three new rubbers with a thickness of 1.9 from a friend - Glazer 09C, Dignix 05 and Tenergy 05 hard. My and his feelings completely coincide with the rubber matrix from the Butterfly. Of these rubbers, Tenergy 05 hard does create the most spin! glazer 09c is noticeably slower and less spin with lots of control, and dignics 05 is faster than both rubbers and spins lower.

 

[Lazer]

Just yesterday I tested three new rubbers with a thickness of 1.9 from a friend - Glazer 09C, Dignix 05 and Tenergy 05 hard. My and his feelings completely coincide with the rubber matrix from the Butterfly. Of these rubbers, Tenergy 05 hard does create the most spin! glazer 09c is noticeably slower and less spin with lots of control, and dignics 05 is faster than both rubbers and spins lower.

You mean that spin is harder to access on D05 than on G09C?
According to BTY they have virtually the same spin capability. G09C shows only a teeny-weeny bit more, should be hard to determine for a human.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[zeio]

This is something that I've always wondered about. Speed and spin are rated on sites with a single number, when it would be more accurate and make more sense for them to be represented on a curve with several different values depending on input power. Wish there was an objective way to test for those values. Subjective feel of reviewers who have widely varying input power ability seems extremely unreliable.

Butterfly has actually published experimental data for Bryce Speed, Bryce and Sriver.

Expressing relative blade speed

There is a simple way for us to compare relative blade speed of different forum members' blades....

mytabletennis.net

 

[Egon]

You mean that spin is harder to access on D05 than on G09C?
According to BTY they have virtually the same spin capability. G09C shows only a teeny-weeny bit more, should be hard to determine for a human.

Cheers
L-zr

It seemed to me that the Glazer 09c spins better than the Dignics 05 on hard shots, perhaps this is due to the higher speed of the Dignics 05 - the contact time of the ball with the rubber is less.

 

[Egon]

I was just talking only about rubbers with same top sheet but different sponges.
Not about three totally different rubbers Tenergy & Dignix & Glayzer
That may be or may not be wrong on chart . I do not know. But that is not the issue I am talking about.

My subjective experience confirms for me personally that there is no reason to doubt the Butterfly rubber property matrix, and you do whatever you want

 

[Lazer]

What you two are talking about is analyzing & comparing test results for the same rubber at varying test conditions such as input power
What I was talking about was comparing two different rubbers under same test conditions (I assume that is how any rational person would conduct a comparison test) .

My guess is the result of some more or less scientific test equipment.

 

[Egon]

You mean that spin is harder to access on D05 than on G09C?
According to BTY they have virtually the same spin capability. G09C shows only a teeny-weeny bit more, should be hard to determine for a human.

Cheers
L-zr

Oh yeah, I forgot to say, maybe I thought that the G9C creates more rotation than the D05 also because we tested all the rotations on the forehand, and I have been playing forehand for 20 years only with sticky rubbers and therefore I can create more rotation with a sticky rubber , but for some reason, Tenergy 05 hard still creates more spin, even on my forehand movement. It reminded me of the undeservedly forgotten SpinArt from the Butterfly.

 

[JustANoob]

Is brokenball sick or maybe busy, should've gathered the huns and raided this thread 20 posts ago.

 

[brokenball]

This is something that I've always wondered about. Speed and spin are rated on sites with a single number, when it would be more accurate and make more sense for them to be represented on a curve with several different values depending on input power. Wish there was an objective way to test for those values. Subjective feel of reviewers who have widely varying input power ability seems extremely unreliable.

Good wonder!!!
Yes, that is what the Tieffenbacher document shows. The COR drops as impact speed increases.
Apparently only igorponger has read the Tieffenbacher document.

It really amazes me how you guys can post so much garbage without facts to to back them up.

But frankly my dear, who gives a f^#*ck. 😁

Yes! The kids should be practicing instead of talking about stuff they have no way of knowing.
Maybe after they get their engineering or physic degree with a few years of experience they will be qualified but I doubt it.
Has anybody noticed that it is the kids that do the boosting?

 

[brokenball]

This is something that I've always wondered about. Speed and spin are rated on sites with a single number, when it would be more accurate and make more sense for them to be represented on a curve with several different values depending on input power. Wish there was an objective way to test for those values. Subjective feel of reviewers who have widely varying input power ability seems extremely unreliable.

Good wonder!!!
Yes, that is what the Tieffenbacher document shows. The COR drops as impact speed increases.
Apparently only igorponger has read the Tieffenbacher document.

 

[igorponger]

Dont take the rubber range as granted. Those need a further verification with testing instruments with a high measure of diligence.

Be happy

 

[Egon]

Dont take the rubber range as granted. Those need a further verification with testing instruments with a high measure of diligence.

Be happy

Oh, that's interesting! What are instruments for measuring speed and rotation?

 

[Egon]

Good wonder!!!
Yes, that is what the Tieffenbacher document shows. The COR drops as impact speed increases.
Apparently only igorponger has read the Tieffenbacher document.

I also want to study this document. Do you have a link, can't find it with google search

 

[dingyibvs]

@brokenball is probably writing more replies, but he'll be the first (well, I guess this time I am) to tell you that it's not so simple as softer sponge = more spin.

When you hit a ball, the rubber stretches and then rebounds to impart spin (and speed as well, but that's another topic), kind of like a slingshot. A softer sponge would allow the rubber to stretch more, but will it rebound faster? A softer rubber band on a slingshot will allow you to stretch it more, but will it result in a more powerful shot?

 

[Egon]

@brokenball is probably writing more replies, but he'll be the first (well, I guess this time I am) to tell you that it's not so simple as softer sponge = more spin.

When you hit a ball, the rubber stretches and then rebounds to impart spin (and speed as well, but that's another topic), kind of like a slingshot. A softer sponge would allow the rubber to stretch more, but will it rebound faster? A softer rubber band on a slingshot will allow you to stretch it more, but will it result in a more powerful shot?

On soft rubbers, I have repeatedly noticed a ceiling (limitation) of speed and rotation, when the acceleration of movement beyond a certain limit does not bring a significant increase in the speed and rotation of the ball. On a hard rubber like the Hurricane 3 it seems like there is no such limit - no matter how much I speed up the ball goes faster and faster with more spin. Perhaps hard rubber also has its limits, but these limits, it seems to me, are not subject to the abilities of the human body.

 

[dingyibvs]

On soft rubbers, I have repeatedly noticed a ceiling (limitation) of speed and rotation, when the acceleration of movement beyond a certain limit does not bring a significant increase in the speed and rotation of the ball. On a hard rubber like the Hurricane 3 it seems like there is no such limit - no matter how much I speed up the ball goes faster and faster with more spin. Perhaps hard rubber also has its limits, but these limits, it seems to me, are not subject to the abilities of the human body.

Yeah, like with a slingshot (or a bow and arrow), a softer elastic band/string will allow even a child to shoot a projectile, but a harder elastic band/string will allow a stronger adult to shoot the same projectile further whereas a child may not be able to stretch it enough to launch the projectile past his feet. I'm simplifying the issue, of course, but that's the gist of it.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I also want to study this document. Do you have a link, can't find it with google search

May be this:

https://sasportssience.blob.core.windows.net/ijtts/IJTTS_2_pdf%20files/IJTTS_2_1_14_Tiefenbacher_The%20Impact.pdf