Ma long not in Olympics Singles?

[Persistence TT]

Well i guess everybody has their own opinion, no disrespect to yours but i think ma long does not have a poor mentality, and he has dominated zjk in majority of their matches
after the china harmony he leveled up his game and mental toughness, he missed his chance to be in the olympics singles and i agree that ZJK and WH are deserving of the slot since they are in good form during the selection, olympics indeed puts more pressure to each players but it does not mean that ma long cant deliver a gold at his current form

off course he can ! im not saying that he cannot do it im just saying that if i was liu guoliang and saw his past results , my faith to ma long wouldnt be so strong , in decisive moments he couldnt handle the pressure thats all . if he works on that then he will be trully no1. but right now for my perception of a "great player" he isnt a really great player . He is just a tremendous talent that needs to work on mentality to be the best ever . Great players handle pressure and play like they dont care about the result , thats a great player...balance and peace of mind

question : when was the last time u saw ma long make a great come back against a strong opponent ? zjk won 4-2 after losing 2-0 in the world cup against wang hao . wang hao WLQ ma lin and ZJK even xu xin have made great comebacks , but not ma long ! another important thing for the olympic singles is that wang hao hast lost only once to a non chinese player since 2010 (loss to RSM and then loss to ovtcharov @ team world cup)

 

[Bollforte94]

Thanks TTFrenzy for linkin my own video .... I know what he said but this reportage is "old". He changed a lot

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

off course he can ! im not saying that he cannot do it im just saying that if i was liu guoliang and saw his past results , my faith to ma long wouldnt be so strong , in decisive moments he couldnt handle the pressure thats all . if he works on that then he will be trully no1. but right now for my perception of a "great player" he isnt a really great player . He is just a tremendous talent that needs to work on mentality to be the best ever . Great players handle pressure and play like they dont care about the result , thats a great player...balance and peace of mind

question : when was the last time u saw ma long make a great come back against a strong opponent ? zjk won 4-2 after losing 2-0 in the world cup against wang hao . wang hao WLQ ma lin and ZJK even xu xin have made great comebacks , but not ma long ! another important thing for the olympic singles is that wang hao hast lost only once to a non chinese player since 2010 (loss to RSM and then loss to ovtcharov @ team world cup)

Sorry, but the discussion sounds a little stupid. I watched Zhang Jike play Joo Se Hyuk who he normally destroys and I watched Zhang Jike get beaten 4-0. Was that something other than mentality that Zhang Jike forgot to show up to the match? In that same tournament, Ma Long beat Joo in the finals and won the tournament. I also watched a tournament where Zhang Jike and Ma Long played in the finals and Ma Long won 4-0 and Zhang Jike's mental stability was so elsewhere that he forgot to shake hands after he got thrashed. Is that somehow not his mental strength.

Come on. Everyone has their good days and bad days.

By the way, in their last 6 meetings, Ma Long is 5-1 against Zhang Jike. Some people might say that is absolute domination.

It is unfortunate that, in the Olympics we will not see the two best players in the world going against each other.

It is also unfortunate that Ma Long was not at the World Cup but it is hard to complain that he did not win it in 2011 when he was playing great, because he was not there. 2009 was a long time ago.

Personally, I love Zhang Jike. I love watching his game. I don't love Ma Long but I like him. However, I still have to give him the credit he deserves. And if anyone deserves to go to the Olympics based on the past 9 months of table tennis play, it is definitely Ma Long.

But again, the thing that is a shame about the format for the Olympic games for Table Tennis is that, many of the greats will be excluded. There will not be one player there who has ever won an Olympic gold in Singles before who has qualified for the singles event. There are legends who are not being invited to play, who are still in the top 20 in the world.

You can argue about who has a better mental attitude between Ma Long, Zhang Jike and Wang Hao all you want. I have seen all of them play great and I have seen all of them fall apart. Remember at the end of 2010 when Wang Hao all of a sudden gained a ton of weight, got fat, could not move and could not beat anyone? Or was dropping off training and getting fat something other than mental strength? I remember seeing Waldner not play well in some big tournaments and fall apart. It happens to everybody.

And I have to be honest with you. I would much rather see Ma Long and Zhang Jike play in the finals of a tournament like the Olympics and see who comes out on top, than have one of them win without having had him go through the other. It would mean much more if Zhang Jike wins the gold medal against Ma Long, and for you Ma Long fans you can just flip the names around because it would mean much more for Ma Long if he won a big tournament like that and had to go through both Wang Hao and Zhang Jike.

 

[Persistence TT]

Thanks TTFrenzy for linkin my own video .... I know what he said but this reportage is "old". He changed a lot

well do you are inside his head and know that? search the article in tabletennista , ma long himself sais that he needs to work on his psychology thats why both he and ZJK wont attend qatar open 2012 . the fact that it was your video is absolutely irrelevant with our conversation.

@ carl : zjk lost to joo se hyuk in hungarian open because he was ill dude ! make some research please before posting an opinion and dont make conclusions if you dont know the full story . As for ma long VS zjk yes he did own him this year but this is not a key factor to choose someone to represent your country in the olympics . MA long has no character and thats a fact , im not hating him or anything im just expressing what i see . If he had character he would rise in difficult situations (all the other players i mentioned did it !).

As for the fact that many great players wont compete , well thats not an ITTF issue but Olympics issue . Olympics are made for the international companies to earn money and TT as it is right now isnt so popular . People doesnt want to see a one sided sport and thats bad for companies that are sponsors when TV broadcasting isnt so popular...its all about commercials !

Ending i totally agree with you for the ma long vs zhang jike final , in terms of performance they are the worlds best right now and it would be a great final no matter who would win it

 

[paras.oriental]

dude u compare 2 different situations . wang hao had never had weak mentality. he just lost to players who played better than him both @ 2004 and 2008 (wang hao also won world cups , ma long couldnt..) ! .

Thnx TTFrnzy for this Lovely Video..........

 

[Bollforte94]

Zhang Jike wasnt ill ... check the interview with Joo Se Hyuk after the match!

 

[Persistence TT]

Zhang Jike wasnt ill ... check the interview with Joo Se Hyuk after the match!

u obviously dont like the fact that i believe what i believe for ma long . i saw your channel and its even more obvious that you love ma long very much . thats not bad , but you must learn to accept a different opinion about a player , ma long isnt a great player because he hasnt won anything big yet . is that so hard to understand? im trying to make dialogue here and the only thing you do is just disagreeing ...not with me but WITH FACTS . so calling me a lier when i have read those articles in table tennista isnt a valid talking point .

I answered to all of your points about ma long , you only reply to certain things that ive written and not the whole facts .

p.s. gimme the link of the video that zhang says " im not ill " it was specifically written that zhang jike in hungiarian open wasnt in good form because of injury that caused illness. You can actually watch the game and see for yourself that he isnt even trying to beat JOO . In slovenian open he came back and defeat all of them...how do you explain that? No more conversation for me these arguments about who's better or not is ridiculous and for children goodbye and have fun

 

[WiWa]

Easy guys I remember as well reading on Tabletennista.com that Zhang was ill, partly because he had done a lot of advertisement campaigns (outside in a t-shirt) and he hadn't really adjusted well to Hungary when they were there. He wasn't comfortable. However, Tabletennista seems pro-Zhang, so it might not be as bad as it seemed. And second, if you are a professional you should take care of yourself and make sure you show up in good shape. Zhang didn't do that in Hungary, and he set it right in Slovenia. Ma Long didn't do that in Moscow and in the Asian Qualification, and he paid for it. Everyone has bad days, but it is obvious that when in decent shape Ma and Zhang are together at the top and the difference between them is not much. But for Zhang it happens more often that he appears to be not prepared or not motivated. That is his main problem. Ma's problem is still his nerves as it seems.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

u obviously dont like the fact that i believe what i believe for ma long . i saw your channel and its even more obvious that you love ma long very much . thats not bad , but you must learn to accept a different opinion about a player , ma long isnt a great player because he hasnt won anything big yet . is that so hard to understand? im trying to make dialogue here and the only thing you do is just disagreeing ...not with me but WITH FACTS . so calling me a lier when i have read those articles in table tennista isnt a valid talking point .

I answered to all of your points about ma long , you only reply to certain things that ive written and not the whole facts .

p.s. gimme the link of the video that zhang says " im not ill " it was specifically written that zhang jike in hungiarian open wasnt in good form because of injury that caused illness. You can actually watch the game and see for yourself that he isnt even trying to beat JOO . In slovenian open he came back and defeat all of them...how do you explain that? No more conversation for me these arguments about who's better or not is ridiculous and for children goodbye and have fun

I have to be honest. It sounds like someone is cranky. Perhaps more sleep. You have a right to your opinions. I loved watching Ma Long lose to Koki Niwa. I think all players are human and have their ups and downs. But you do sound quite argumentative and I did not see anyone else on this thread seeming angry and cranky before your comments.

I also don't know that illness is a great excuse. I believe it was before the 1997 Olympics when Waldner had the flu and a fever but it might have been 1989 I cannot remember. They did not know if he was going to be well enough to play. Which ever year it was, he was sick and he won the singles and Sweden won the team. There are lots of sports stories of sick or injured athletes coming out and having the performance of their careers. But it is hard to say one guy folds under pressure and then excusing the other guy of the same thing.

Which tournament was it that Zhang Jike, one of my favorite players, forgot to shake Ma Long's hand after losing 4-0. When people argued that was rude I wrote that I felt he just was not fully there at the end and did not realize that he did not shake hands with anyone, Ma Long or the officials. But, his head was elsewhere. That is definitely a mental issue. The first three games were close. He could have won all three. Two of them he should have won. He lost all three. In the 4th game it was close at the beginning and he put Ma Long on defense and Ma Long took the point from him when Jike had Long backed up and on the ropes. When he lost that point, Jike fell apart and was not there for the rest of the match. Jike also, often does not show up till he is down, or as it has been said, he is a slow starter. That is definitely a mental thing as well. I love Jike. I love his backhand. I love his serves. I love how he has come through against the odds when he has had a lot go against him like getting kicked off the Chinese National Team. But both he and Ma Long have mental issues. Jike is definitely capable of coming through in the big situations but he is also capable of not showing up at all. Ma Long gets scared and plays like a chump, or you could call it choking when he feels the pressure.

But they both deserve to be there. They are both better than anyone else.

 

[Bollforte94]

@Carl Asian Championships 2012

TTFrenzy you don't change your opinion as well but you pillory me that I don't change my opinion? Ridiculous....
Yes Ma Long was mentaly weak
but since 2011 he is mentally strong ....
Zhang Jike is mentally strong, too but he has this asshole characteristics ....

Yeah I am a big Ma Long fan (well spotted ;D) I felt in love with his game and attitude on and off! the table since I saw the WTTC 2009 match between him and Wang Hao. Unfortunately he lost but he won my heart
I started real training since I saw this match. Before this I just played lame ping pong. Ma Long is ma man!

I am not interested in your so-called facts. Every chinese table tennis is a great athlete and we should stop arguing about who is the best. This fuels the hate. It is like this Cristiano - Messi thing, everyone has his opinion about who is the best but Cristiano and Messi are just saying that they love to see the other one play .... they are not that interested in this "who-is-the-best-thing" like the Cristiano-fans and Messi-fans....
We should learn from it

 

[Persistence TT]

no one is cranky or angry , my post was misunderstood . i just have reasonable questions and the only thing i received is irony because he doesnt have solid epicheirema for his points of view thats all . u can see that from his 1st to his last post he calls me "deluded" "ridiculous" and i still try to communicate with him despite his lack of behaviour or solid talking points . anyway there is a very good explanatory image about people arguing on the internet , just google it besides isnt it a fact that everyone here can play mr know it all ? its the easy thing to do , the hard thing is to prove it . im still waiting for the interview after hungarian open

p.s. carl i agree with you mate but all those stuff that you wrote are not relevant with my perception :S , thanx though for your honest post

p.s.2 bollforte : for me it isnt about who is the best because there isnt one (i believe that players have ups and downs no one can call himself a better player than another , only if he has a 85 %win - 15 % loss record u can start "bragging"...) , i just expressed my opinion that ma long has mental weaknesses compared to the other two . who talked about one being better than the other? i just believe that wang hao and zhang jike are stronger characters , but if ma long solves his problems then undoubtedly will crush them all

 

[sxTT]

off course he can ! im not saying that he cannot do it im just saying that if i was liu guoliang and saw his past results , my faith to ma long wouldnt be so strong , in decisive moments he couldnt handle the pressure thats all . if he works on that then he will be trully no1. but right now for my perception of a "great player" he isnt a really great player . He is just a tremendous talent that needs to work on mentality to be the best ever . Great players handle pressure and play like they dont care about the result , thats a great player...balance and peace of mind

question : when was the last time u saw ma long make a great come back against a strong opponent ? zjk won 4-2 after losing 2-0 in the world cup against wang hao . wang hao WLQ ma lin and ZJK even xu xin have made great comebacks , but not ma long ! another important thing for the olympic singles is that wang hao hast lost only once to a non chinese player since 2010 (loss to RSM and then loss to ovtcharov @ team world cup)

austrian open semis he was down 2-0 against XX, but that is if you consider XX a strong opponent

 

[Tadex]

Poor old Wang Hao, getting no attention. This discussion has come down to Ma Long vs Zhang Jike. This will continue up to the next Olympics where I expect XX to be in that mix too but this was meant to be about this Olympics and you're all forgetting probably the first person who should be selected: WANG HAO. He's been there and done all of it bar winning. I think even if it were Ma Long (who I think is a better player than ZJK when taken out of any context) playing Wang Hao in the final, Wang Hao will DESTROY him.

A lot of things seem to be in his favour. He will be the only player in this Olympics who has been as far as the Semi-Finals, this experience should serve him well. In the last two years, the only non-Chinese players he's lost to are RSM and Ovtcharov; both of whom he has since shown he can overcome with ease. He has possibly the greatest motivation out of anybody having lost two consecutive finals he'll be absolutely desperate to right this wrong. He has been gradually playing his way back to form and I think we'll see a strong performance at the Korean Open which should confirm that he is intending to peak at the Olympics.

 

[YosuaYosan]

A bit out of the discussion probably..
Schlager won the 2003 WTTC while he is sustaining injury on both of his feet, the toes if I am not mistaken..

I don't know if that would add up something

 

[Persistence TT]

Poor old Wang Hao, getting no attention. This discussion has come down to Ma Long vs Zhang Jike. This will continue up to the next Olympics where I expect XX to be in that mix too but this was meant to be about this Olympics and you're all forgetting probably the first person who should be selected: WANG HAO. He's been there and done all of it bar winning. I think even if it were Ma Long (who I think is a better player than ZJK when taken out of any context) playing Wang Hao in the final, Wang Hao will DESTROY him.

A lot of things seem to be in his favour. He will be the only player in this Olympics who has been as far as the Semi-Finals, this experience should serve him well. In the last two years, the only non-Chinese players he's lost to are RSM and Ovtcharov; both of whom he has since shown he can overcome with ease. He has possibly the greatest motivation out of anybody having lost two consecutive finals he'll be absolutely desperate to right this wrong. He has been gradually playing his way back to form and I think we'll see a strong performance at the Korean Open which should confirm that he is intending to peak at the Olympics.

its because some people see the tree and not the whole forest talking about "who's best or not" . Wang hao can clearly crush both of them its just a matter of who wants it more and who will be in the best mental state and form , not about "who is the best"

personally im not arguing about who's better ma long or zhang jike , besides chinese players have never had a dominant player among them . In the past two years if you check the results zjk dominates hao , hao dominates ma long , malong dominates zjk (funny thing is that XX can lose or win to all three !! ) . And thats something that happened with the old triad , wlq dominated ma lin , ma lin dominated wang hao , wang hao dominated wlq... and funny thing again was that chen qi in chinese super league almost all the time dominated ma lin ! So talking about who is best is just a stupid topic , because these issues on TT are so much relevant to each other .