Moral Question Here…

[NetProphet]

I dont understand - do you not serve short serves against everyone else?

He is not even talking about super short ghost serves which btw one kid used to reach the final in a recent Chinese national junior tournament.

Why would you intentionally dumb down your normal game so that the kid can adapt?

Fair enough. I think you kinda know what I mean but in a "let's pretend there's no difference here" world, then you are correct but this post doesn't exist.
If I really have to explain why Vs a 5 yr old might be different then..... well I'm gonna seem like a condescending dick 😉
You know why it might be different and the reason I would 'dumb it down' as you put it is to take the kid on in as fair a game as possible given that the odds are already stacked against him.
Different people will make different choices and I respect yours even if I'm surprised!

Actually, no, I don't respect it and if I was there I would laugh and call you a bastard 🤣🤣🤣
😛

 

[latej]

If you are 5 years old you may not be tall enough to do a normal serve so shame on you… 😡

Keep this, Lazer. I know you understand the other aspects too, and yet, we need this *uncompromising* formulation that you provide.... Cheers.

I wish we all could meet and play ;-)

 

[rpb23]

I was in a tournament once and for some reason some little tiny 5 year old was drawn against me. He started with illegal serves not even throwing the ball up and I found myself down 5-1 in game 1. Then my grandfather, who was in my corner, told me to do short serves all the time since he couldn’t reach them. I ended up winning 3-0 (11-5, 11-0, 11-2) after doing this and adjusting to his illegal serves. Now my question is, is this morally right? I felt really bad that I was winning so many cheap points just because this 5 year old kid could not reach the served at all.

5 years old and your grandpa actually advised you serve short so the poor kid couldn't reach?
Well, I don't pass the moral judgement on you or your grandpa. However, I won't do that. I would just serve regularly or even easier so the kid could get the ball back. I like winning table tennis game even it's just my hobby sport but not at any cost or any means available. To be honest, I'm always delighted to see a young kid entering the sport as table tennis is having popularity problem.

How many basement players had enough courage and came to a local TT club only they got totally smashed and even laughed upon and never came back while we complained loudly how our sports failed to attract enough attention?

For that reason my club has a new-player-welcome-committee and the members of the committee are required to chat, play and show some tips if asked with any new comers, especially someone who is a beginner.

 

[joshmak10]

5 years old and your grandpa actually advised you serve short so the poor kid couldn't reach?
Well, I don't pass the moral judgement on you or your grandpa. However, I won't do that. I would just serve regularly or even easier so the kid could get the ball back. I like winning table tennis game even it's just my hobby sport but not at any cost or any means available. To be honest, I'm always delighted to see a young kid entering the sport as table tennis is having popularity problem.

How many basement players had enough courage and came to a local TT club only they got totally smashed and even laughed upon and never came back while we complained loudly how our sports failed to attract enough attention?

For that reason my club has a new-player-welcome-committee and the members of the committee are required to chat, play and show some tips if asked with any new comers, especially someone who is a beginner.

Hey I’m ethnically chinese and yk how chinese grandpas like to act…

But I like that new member committee, it’s a cool idea

 

[rbtitco]

It's only wrong if you Harimoto screamed after every winner.🙏

 

[joshmak10]

It's only wrong if you Harimoto screamed after every winner.🙏

Didn’t even make a sound 🤣

 

[amekun]

I was in a tournament once and for some reason some little tiny 5 year old was drawn against me. He started with illegal serves not even throwing the ball up and I found myself down 5-1 in game 1. Then my grandfather, who was in my corner, told me to do short serves all the time since he couldn’t reach them. I ended up winning 3-0 (11-5, 11-0, 11-2) after doing this and adjusting to his illegal serves. Now my question is, is this morally right? I felt really bad that I was winning so many cheap points just because this 5 year old kid could not reach the served at all.

What type of tournament was this? was it an open tournament?

 

[joshmak10]

What type of tournament was this? was it an open tournament?

Was like an under 1000 club ranking points tournament (I was 190 ranked, he was 100 ranked, 100 is lowest you can have)

 

[Loop Lob Smash]

It's only wrong if you Harimoto screamed after every winner.🙏

Or celebrate like this:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's only wrong if you Harimoto screamed after every winner.🙏

against a 5 year old kid, that could be considered child abuse....

 

[NDH]

I think more context needs to be seen here.

Is this in China? Or somewhere else in the world.

I've never seen a 5 year old who could legitimately beat any competent adult - Even an adult with little to no table tennis experience (let alone one who is actually a hobby player at the very least).

Were they really 5, or is that an exaggeration?

The only foul serve I can see a 5 year old doing is one that starts below the table height..... Because it's quite likely they won't be able to see above it themselves!

Not wishing to be a kill joy here, but I am wondering if this is a genuine question, or a "hypothetical" question that didn't happen.

If both players are of equal ability, then anything within the rules is absolutely morally fine - Short serves and all.

And yes, if the 5 year old was somehow dominating you off their own serve (really?), you are fine to do short serves - They still have their own serves to win points on.

But you say you "adjusted" to their "illegal" serves after finding yourself 5-1 down in the 1st?

And after that point, you only lost 2 more points in the entire game?

I don't know what your ability level is, but if you seriously didn't feel comfortable being able to have a little "knock" with a 5 year old, to make them feel like they were part of the game, then I'm not sure anyone here can help you.

The scoreline shows you could have easily served long and actually played with the kid (and still won extremely comfortably).

 

[amekun]

Was like an under 1000 club ranking points tournament (I was 190 ranked, he was 100 ranked, 100 is lowest you can have)

I see. Its a part of winning and losing anyways. I wish you could've done a Ghost serve hahahaha and he was doing illegal serves so its fair game for me. Whenever a player enters a tournament they aim to learn and win.... at least for me. you were using what was available to you and the child was using what they have.

 

[NetProphet]

I think more context needs to be seen here.

Is this in China? Or somewhere else in the world.

I've never seen a 5 year old who could legitimately beat any competent adult - Even an adult with little to no table tennis experience (let alone one who is actually a hobby player at the very least).

Were they really 5, or is that an exaggeration?

The only foul serve I can see a 5 year old doing is one that starts below the table height..... Because it's quite likely they won't be able to see above it themselves!

Not wishing to be a kill joy here, but I am wondering if this is a genuine question, or a "hypothetical" question that didn't happen.

If both players are of equal ability, then anything within the rules is absolutely morally fine - Short serves and all.

And yes, if the 5 year old was somehow dominating you off their own serve (really?), you are fine to do short serves - They still have their own serves to win points on.

But you say you "adjusted" to their "illegal" serves after finding yourself 5-1 down in the 1st?

And after that point, you only lost 2 more points in the entire game?

I don't know what your ability level is, but if you seriously didn't feel comfortable being able to have a little "knock" with a 5 year old, to make them feel like they were part of the game, then I'm not sure anyone here can help you.

The scoreline shows you could have easily served long and actually played with the kid (and still won extremely comfortably).

Exactly.
Letting the kid win only 2 more points in the entire 3 games is just mean, in any part of the world!
I still don't understand how some people are writing to say this is ok but I'd imagine they don't have children who they parented at 5 yrs old, cannot remember what it was like to be 5 or have little empathy.
It reminds me of 'Mr Inbetween' (awesome Aussie TV show) where Ray confronts the Adult who took his little daughters toy unicorn.
He asked the guy nicely if he'd give it back as a favour to cheer her up (it was Christmas day).
When the guy continued to be an asshole Ray put him through a window, literally!
Moral of the story, it's not ok to bully children, ever.
My take is that playing with kids has a social and moral responsibility attached to it.
It would have been really cool to let the kid win a set after winning 21 straight points and being 2-0 up!!

 

[NetProphet]

I see. Its a part of winning and losing anyways. I wish you could've done a Ghost serve hahahaha and he was doing illegal serves so its fair game for me. Whenever a player enters a tournament they aim to learn and win.... at least for me. you were using what was available to you and the child was using what they have.

Really.....
After the first 6 points you think it's ok to beat the child 32 points to 2 and 3-0? Callous.

Maybe some folk just came up through the school of hard knocks, literally.
But even if you did, wouldn't you wish something nicer for other children?
I guess I just don't understand....🤷

 

[K.K]

i think you can exclude the moral part into another discussion, but let me tell you with that mindset you will definitely struggle a lot in your tabletennis future too! the thing that you did here is putting winning over everything else. but winning is just the side effect of good training and experience. if someone pressures you to just focus on winning, be it yourself or your granddad, then you will have a hard time to figure out why you actually loose or never get better. so my advice would be to go to your granddad and tell him that he should motivate you to have fun at the table, try to play your best game, try out the things you wanna do no matter if you score or not and just concentrate point to point. winning will then be just a nice thing that happen on the way. the cherry on the cake

a german zweite bundesliga player has a video where he asked several professional table tennis athletes for their 3 best tipps for a upcoming tabletennis player. the one thing that EVERYONE said was: have FUN!

so if you felt bad after a winning a game against a 5 year old then this is something to look into and i appreciate that you did it here and have a better game next time

 

[JustANoob]

against a 5 year old kid, that could be considered child abuse....

Yes, instead on the last point, you go over to his side, you squat down, you get real close to the side of his head and whisper in his ear:

"cho le you little cheating bitch"

 

[amekun]

Really.....
After the first 6 points you think it's ok to beat the child 32 points to 2 and 3-0? Callous.

Maybe some folk just came up through the school of hard knocks, literally.
But even if you did, wouldn't you wish something nicer for other children?
I guess I just don't understand....🤷

yeah kinda. IMO if it wasn't a tournament and everyone was only there to having fun and stuff/casual play, I'd go give out high serves and do what I can to make it easy. Since its a tournament, everyone was prepping for it(I Assume) and doing their best. Let the loss serve as motivation for the child.

 

[SrSTT]

I think another issue is that someone (a parent?) entered the child in the tournament without teaching him a legal way to serve. There are some basics that you really should know before playing a structured event for ratings points.

 

[Der_Echte]

I have a rule in table tennis- NO MERCY. Especially at a tournament. Doesn’t matter if you’re a child, in a wheelchair, or a senior lol.

Rebrand J-Slick'd moniker to include Monterey Meanie

Der_Echte is pretty much the same thinking... if they put on a uniform and showed up, then that indicates they are an opposing warrior able and willing to fight vs you.

No need to demean anyone while we do it, just win points, games, and matches.

My last tourney there was a real young kid... prolly 8 or 9 who could rally at the table without spin decently (which just about every pro trained kid does well) and this kid would SHOUT his Cho every damn point he won regardless of how the point was won... often 2-4 cho each point and it was piercing in pitch... ig you were in the hall it was difficult to compete when this kid was playing.

Is THAT morally right? In the final of his event, he just couldn't perform mentally was well as his 40 yr old opponent and lost a heartbreaking 5th set after leading by 4 points at turn around. Kid proceeded to cry and wail and shout for a full 10 minutes courtside after that loss.

Was it morally right for the 40 year old to make that kid cry?

(haha, the kid made himself cry)

The question or issue J-Slick is addressing is that should one feel sorry for opponent and compete less as a result. I agree with J-Slick on this one and say absolutely NO. The opponent's age or mental stability is not any basis for playing less competitively.

We can debate whether it is OK or not to cho if you win a point vs a kid that age...

... but to me, once that kid obsessively Cho's and Cho's... then it is fair game to do so if I choose... and I would do it quietly the whole match winning points and maybe let one out near the end.

 

[turbozed]

If you were beating the kid 11-0 and 11-2, then clearly it wasn't just the serve that was winning you points.

When I used to play league and they put me up against a kid that clearly was out matched I'd intentionally play a few points where I'd block or fish and let the kid have some satisfying smash points.

You went on to score 30-2 on him afterwards. I'm sure there was a large middle ground where you could've won comfortably and made it more fun for both of you.