move from TimoBoll ALC to innerfoce blade

[Tyce]

You have several options.

Timo Boll ZLF
I personally found the Boll Spirit (basically a Boll ALC) a tad too hard and fast. For me the Boll ZLF was a great alternative. Its the same composition but the ZL fiber instead of the ALC makes it a tad softer and slower. For me this was the ultimate solution. Also, the balance is slightly more towards the handle which instantly improved my backhand. A drawback is that you have to lift slightly more then average when you step off the table.

Innerforce ZLC
I actually own this blade as well. Compared to the Boll ZLF this has similair speed, but slightly softer feel, higher throw, and less bouncy. So the IF ZLC better then the Boll ZLF if you want an extra edge in over the table play. As well for the short game as attacking half long balls. Its also better when playing away from the table.

Outerforce ALC
This is a new blade I havent played with, but it is supposed to be slower then the outer ALC blades (Boll ALC/Viscaria). Its also relatively 'cheap' compared to other Butterfly carbon blades: €120.

Outerforce CAF
I also havent played with this blade. But what I have heard from the few people that have tried it is that it reminded them of the ZLF. And its half the price of the Bol ZLF: €90


So If I didnt find my alternative yet, I would have tried 1 of the Outerforce blades. Like I said, they are relatively cheap compare to other fiber blades from Butterfly. And you can buy both of these for the same price as the IF ZLC.

If you want the same kind of feel as the Boll ALC but everything slightly less in terms of speed, bouncyness and reactivity then the Outerforce ALC is probably best for you.

If you want even less speed, bounce, etc. then the Outerforce CAF might be better. The Boll ZLF is also great, but it will probably become obsolete in the near future and is also very expensive given the Outerforce CAF might be not so different for half the price.

The IF ZLC could still be a great option, but its more of a gamble because the composition is completely different compared to the other options listed. So depending on your feeling with that composition, it might be a hit or miss. So if possible, try this blade before you buy it.

Why not Innerforce ALC or Harimoto? Just curious

 

[schrodingerskoalabear]

Yes I would. Just one layer tho

My first time boosting. Is the following the right method? ( I have read that some people apply glue first. and then booster)

1. Directly apply 1 layer to sponge. Let is dry for 6 hours
2. Wait until the dome has flattened
3. Apply glue to blade and the rubber
4. attach

Topspin

 

[joshmak10]

My first time boosting. Is the following the right method? ( I have read that some people apply glue first. and then booster)

1. Directly apply 1 layer to sponge. Let is dry for 6 hours
2. Wait until the dome has flattened
3. Apply glue to blade and the rubber
4. attach

Topspin

Everything is like my method except i wait 12 hours and I don’t wait till it’s flattened

 

[Amayzde]

Why not Innerforce ALC or Harimoto? Just curious

Because of the different composition. I listed the IF ZLC because he specifically mentioned it and I have played with it, so I can tell him to expect.

The other blades I mentioned have similar compositions to the Boll ALC, so they will have similar characteristics too and the adjustment wont be as big as if he were to go for a different composition like any Innerforce blade would be.

 

[Arlo]

You should probably hit the gym. More and stronger muscles enhances stability and speed for all shots. You are already fairly happy with your setup, there's no need to search again. The grass is not greener on the other side.

me overthinking ..nah cannot be. Problem never exists between floor and frame. Gym is not needed as I already go there twice (unless it's competition time, then once as it would be a bit much). but you are so right that more training geared towards the bouncyness is of course the way to go.

 

[Arlo]

You have several options.

Timo Boll ZLF
Innerforce ZLC
Outerforce ALC
Outerforce CAF

The IF ZLC could still be a great option, but its more of a gamble because the composition is completely different compared to the other options listed. So depending on your feeling with that composition, it might be a hit or miss. So if possible, try this blade before you buy it.

this is very helpful. helps narrowing it down. The problem is that comparinggear at the club always leaves you with questions. Does the difference has its origin in the rubber or the frame. The rame rubber may play completely different on my blade (e.g. I tried the rakza 7 soft and X on an all wood ma-lin off+) didn't like it but might be that on the TB-ALC its a different beast, or that I should play longer with it.

 

[Arlo]

This is a bit theoretical and about the fibre only. Don´t forget to consider the blade´s weight, thickness and its top veneer.

If you are satisfied with the setup in general and overshoot on blocks "from time to time" I am not so sure that a different blade is necessary and even less sure it would change the problem.

true. althought the patrick franziska zlc and timo boll should be fairly close in weight. the latter being a tad more head heavy as I read. I should be fine. but probably practise and perhaps a bit less bouncy rubber would also do the trick. so move from a t05fx to rakza7soft or a xiom alternative.

 

[Amayzde]

this is very helpful. helps narrowing it down. The problem is that comparinggear at the club always leaves you with questions. Does the difference has its origin in the rubber or the frame. The rame rubber may play completely different on my blade (e.g. I tried the rakza 7 soft and X on an all wood ma-lin off+) didn't like it but might be that on the TB-ALC its a different beast, or that I should play longer with it.

I would say the blade is the most important. Its the heart of your setup. If the blade isn't right, you can try all the rubbers in the world, but they wont work.

As for rubber-blade combinations, I personally don't like softer rubbers on hard carbon blades. It feels very non-linear to me. I prefer it the other way around: hard rubber on softer blades. Hard rubbers are more linear, and a softer blade gives the harder rubber more hold time.

If I had to decide a new setup for you, then I would buy an Outerforce CAF, and glue the T05-FX you currently have onto it and feel how it plays.
Is it still too bouncy? Get Rozena.
Is it too soft and too slow? Get Tenergy 05.

Give your new setup time(!). There will be aspects to your game that you instantly feel better, but there will also be a few that require more adjustment.

 

[Arlo]

As for rubber-blade combinations, I personally don't like softer rubbers on hard carbon blades. It feels very non-linear to me. I prefer it the other way around: hard rubber on softer blades. Hard rubbers are more linear, and a softer blade gives the harder rubber more hold time.

If I had to decide a new setup for you, then I would buy an Outerforce CAF, and glue the T05-FX you currently have onto it and feel how it plays.
Is it still too bouncy? Get Rozena.
Is it too soft and too slow? Get Tenergy 05.

That's interesting take. Never really liked harder rubbers. lack feeling (for me), difficult to get spin in my serves. Can score awesome points with them but it's hit and miss. but never suspected the combo. So doing harder rubber on a bit softer frame could be a solution. We'll have a field day next time in the shop trying combo's

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Do you recommend boosting H3 Neo (I have the commercial 39 OS to try out) when trying the same time?

I am transitioning from Big Dipper 39

Yes I would. Just one layer tho

My first time boosting. Is the following the right method? ( I have read that some people apply glue first. and then booster)

1. Directly apply 1 layer to sponge. Let is dry for 6 hours
2. Wait until the dome has flattened
3. Apply glue to blade and the rubber
4. attach

Topspin

Everything is like my method except i wait 12 hours and I don’t wait till it’s flattened

Is there an actual reason you guys have hijacked this thread with as many posts that have absolutely nothing to do with OP's thread as this?

@joshmak10 I don't view your first post as part of the issue. You were trying to give a different idea to the OP. But you could have recommended to him to start a thread of his own on switching to H3 and boosting.

@schrodingerskoalabear why did you feel this thread about inner fibre vs outer fibre blades and whether the OP should switch his blade was a good thread for you to discuss ideas about you switching to H3, whether you should boost and what techniques you should use to boost? Is there any relevance or are you just here for something that has nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread?

 

[kapahoo]

It will be a lot less different than marketing and some posts on forums indicate. The feel will be somewhat different but you are still going to overshoot the exact same balls. But it is fun changing so do it!
I dare say soft FX rubbers are harder to master in the short game than more firm/hard rubbers for most people though.

 

[joshmak10]

Is there an actual reason you guys have hijacked this thread with as many posts that have absolutely nothing to do with OP's thread as this?

@joshmak10 I don't view your first post as part of the issue. You were trying to give a different idea to the OP. But you could have recommended to him to start a thread of his own on switching to H3 and boosting.

@schrodingerskoalabear why did you feel this thread about inner fibre vs outer fibre blades and whether the OP should switch his blade was a good thread for you to discuss ideas about you switching to H3, whether you should boost and what techniques you should use to boost? Is there any relevance or are you just here for something that has nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread?

All I did was just answer the guys question abt boosting. It was just a quick recommendation.

 

[schrodingerskoalabear]

Is there an actual reason you guys have hijacked this thread with as many posts that have absolutely nothing to do with OP's thread as this?

@joshmak10 I don't view your first post as part of the issue. You were trying to give a different idea to the OP. But you could have recommended to him to start a thread of his own on switching to H3 and boosting.

@schrodingerskoalabear why did you feel this thread about inner fibre vs outer fibre blades and whether the OP should switch his blade was a good thread for you to discuss ideas about you switching to H3, whether you should boost and what techniques you should use to boost? Is there any relevance or are you just here for something that has nothing to do with the actual subject of the thread?

My apologies. Was a quick question and not my intent to hijack . Really should have asked in a separate thread

 

[banbekas]

Keep the TB ALC and T05fx. Short game is all about touch and skill, and changing your equipment, either rubber or blade, is compensating for your lack of touch and skill. The trade off is also not worth it, you might be able to play short against players of your level or lower, but not those who are better than you are.

 

[Arlo]

Keep the TB ALC and T05fx. Short game is all about touch and skill, and changing your equipment, either rubber or blade, is compensating for your lack of touch and skill. The trade off is also not worth it, you might be able to play short against players of your level or lower, but not those who are better than you are.

Wait what? It cannot be me...can it😄.
I do think that I moved up too quickly. Coming from celluloid the new ball felt slow and therefore probably ended up with a combo demanding a bit more skill/feel then currently available. Others at my club also find it a tricky combo (except one elite player). So on the look out for a bit more docile combo to help me develop instead of learning the wrong technique to compensate for the too advanced setup. If that makes sense

 

[NetProphet]

My first time boosting. Is the following the right method? ( I have read that some people apply glue first. and then booster)

1. Directly apply 1 layer to sponge. Let is dry for 6 hours
2. Wait until the dome has flattened
3. Apply glue to blade and the rubber
4. attach

Topspin

Because this was just discussed in another thread I want to say, be absolutely sure you don't get any booster onto the playing surface of the rubber or it will kill it!
Best of luck 👍

 

[NetProphet]

me overthinking ..nah cannot be. Problem never exists between floor and frame. Gym is not needed as I already go there twice (unless it's competition time, then once as it would be a bit much). but you are so right that more training geared towards the bouncyness is of course the way to go.

Hit your core hard!!! Tension in a strong core makes a massive difference to not just your strokes but also your movement and footwork! The more I play the more I realise that your body is the biggest weapon and absolutely essential for what you can extract from any equipment.
Best 👍

 

[NetProphet]

I would say the blade is the most important. Its the heart of your setup. If the blade isn't right, you can try all the rubbers in the world, but they wont work.

As for rubber-blade combinations, I personally don't like softer rubbers on hard carbon blades. It feels very non-linear to me. I prefer it the other way around: hard rubber on softer blades. Hard rubbers are more linear, and a softer blade gives the harder rubber more hold time.

If I had to decide a new setup for you, then I would buy an Outerforce CAF, and glue the T05-FX you currently have onto it and feel how it plays.
Is it still too bouncy? Get Rozena.
Is it too soft and too slow? Get Tenergy 05.

Give your new setup time(!). There will be aspects to your game that you instantly feel better, but there will also be a few that require more adjustment.

He's less than 2 yrs back, with no coaching, after a 30 yr hiatus from TT.
I can't see how advising Outerforce CAF with Tenergy anything is a good way to learn again...

@OP
I think you need to be honest about your level and your intentions at this point.
Do you just want exotic equipment that you can compare V the better players at your club or do you want the best rubber and blade combo to actually help you develop you game and become a serious player?
The tried and tested method is a 5ply wood with Rakza 7 or similar.
From reading the initial post again the issues seem to be 100% technique with plenty of confusion.
Thinking ZLC or some other exotic thing to be the answer really just makes this a vanity thread that will stagnate your development.

 

[Tyce]

He's less than 2 yrs back, with no coaching, after a 30 yr hiatus from TT.
I can't see how advising Outerforce CAF with Tenergy anything is a good way to learn again...

@OP
I think you need to be honest about your level and your intentions at this point.
Do you just want exotic equipment that you can compare V the better players at your club or do you want the best rubber and blade combo to actually help you develop you game and become a serious player?
The tried and tested method is a 5ply wood with Rakza 7 or similar.
From reading the initial post again the issues seem to be 100% technique with plenty of confusion.
Thinking ZLC or some other exotic thing to be the answer really just makes this a vanity thread that will stagnate your development.

I'm 2 years back, after a 15y hiatus. Currently at the point where I feel like investing so much time in all-wood was a waste with the current meta of the game.

Yes, you can make it work with high level rubber, but the top end speed just isn't there.

When I see my teammate, who has been playing an Andro inner blade for 2y now, with a total of 3y experience, hit some major destructive balls, I just can't do that with wood. And my technique is absolutely better.

I'm moving to fiber, and it just isn't that hard to control. Inner, outer, it doesn't really matter as long as it's paired with a fitting rubber.
If I were to buy right now, it'd be a Harimoto ALC since I really like the inner composition and it's pretty smooth in the gear transition.
But outer fiber has a distinct advantage that the carbon effect is very predictable.

Honestly, if @Arlo likes the TB ALC, just stick with it. If the short game is too hard, grab a pair of Rozena instead of Tenergy. If it's just a backhand problem, stick it on the backhand only.
Downtuning the rubber will give you space to grow in the future without having to switch to a new blade. It's much, much easier to get used to new rubber (if they somewhat fit the whole setup).
And it's not like you're buying training wheels or something. We have some top level player using a no-brand blade and Vega Europe... But I can't get their topspin back on the table once they get me out of position. It's honestly not about the gear but about the player, and the combination of gear fitting the player.

 

[NetProphet]

I'm 2 years back, after a 15y hiatus. Currently at the point where I feel like investing so much time in all-wood was a waste with the current meta of the game.

A waste?
Because you can't compete with superior players with it in terms of speed doesn't make it a waste though.
In terms of developing technique to the point where you're ready to step up to higher level equipment with more speed, that's the value of it because I've yet to see anyone go straight to ALC and Tenergy and make it work.

I suppose there's a few ways to look at it. I have people around me who really prioritise match results, flat hitters who just want to punish opponents with that wild ugly flat smack. They couple it with tricky serves and a push game in an effort to limit opponents to few opportunities. It works to a certain level m, and then it just doesn't work at all. They have no development strategy for themselves and no real feeling for new shots or techniques that lead to improvement. And they stagnanted .
While others prioritised development over results, took the beatings while they tried to put their training into matches and have now passed them out.
Development Strategy ignoring results and fancy equipment wins out...

Yes, you can make it work with high level rubber, but the top end speed just isn't there.

I guess it again depends on what level you're talking about and how you want to play. Top end speed is so often overrated and I think it's far more valuable to work on tactics and how a player builds points. Having great control of the ball is invaluable to build that, imo.
There are still players better than me using Rakza 7 and they have all the speed that need, once they've moved you out of position forget about it! 🙂. But that's just one approach and I myself now enjoy the Innerforce ALC with D80 but that's after 3 yrs.

When I see my teammate, who has been playing an Andro inner blade for 2y now, with a total of 3y experience, hit some major destructive balls, I just can't do that with wood. And my technique is absolutely better.

Theres different approaches to learning of course. With regular coaching anyone could start with faster, stiffer, harder equipment and learn the game properly.
In this case though, and purely with the intent of helping the OP make a good decision given everything I've read, we're talking about someone who admittedly has:
- become used to the active nature of T05, hinting at lazy technique?
- Finds it too jumpy in short game.
- Is happy with the blade but wants to change the blade (🤷‍♂️)
- Finds T05fx too bouncy and can't control blocks with it
- Has tried Rakza 7 and X on the blade but not enough power, spin when away from table, on a TB ALC.....
This all screams poor technique to me and the answer isn't in faster and professional grade equipment, at least not in any experience I've seen or had.

I'm moving to fiber, and it just isn't that hard to control. Inner, outer, it doesn't really matter as long as it's paired with a fitting rubber.

Because you developed your technique for 2 yrs with a wood blade and suitable rubbers is why I reckon this will work for you. But it IS hard to control, even for most advanced beginners to early intermediate level in my experience.
You're only ready when you're ready and I can't see how ready is posting confusing stuff like the OP has.

Honestly, if @Arlo likes the TB ALC, just stick with it.

Well yes. But he said he liked it but also wanted to change it cos the rubbers were worn out. I don't know what this means tbh.....

If the short game is too hard, grab a pair of Rozena instead of Tenergy.

Absolutely!

If it's just a backhand problem, stick it on the backhand only.
Downtuning the rubber will give you space to grow in the future without having to switch to a new blade.

'If' the TB ALC is controllable for him. But my guess based on what I've read is that it isn't. 🤷‍♂️

It's much, much easier to get used to new rubber (if they somewhat fit the whole setup).
And it's not like you're buying training wheels or something. We have some top level player using a no-brand blade and Vega Europe... But I can't get their topspin back on the table once they get me out of position.

Exactly my experience too V good players.

It's honestly not about the gear but about the player, and the combination of gear fitting the player.

For good players playing well, yes, it's not about the equipment.
For average players playing poorly with carbon blade and T05, I think it's at least some bit about the equipment!!